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Featured Could Jesus been born with a father and still be Son of God?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by InvestigateTruth, Jul 7, 2020.

  1. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    1. Was Jesus a Spirit in Heaven Prior to Mary's Pregnancy?

    2. Was Jesus son of God, before Mary getting pregnant?


    3. Let's assume if Mary became pregnant after marrying Joseph, could still Jesus become the Child if Mary got pregnant by Joseph??

    4. Or what made Jesus Son of God, was only possible, when Jesus did not have a human father?
     
    #1 InvestigateTruth, Jul 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
  2. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    Since you're Baha'i and asking in a general area, the Avatar/Christ always exists and takes human form from time-to-time. One of those times was as Jesus.

    Mary as I understand it was a "virgin" in the sense of her purity in her innermost nature not being a "virgin" in the typical sense of the word.
     
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  3. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
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    There's an idea, once popular, that Jesus was just a man, born of Mary and Joseph in the normal way, and that God ADOPTED him as his anointed son.

    No miraculous pregnancy required. Just God selecting Jesus and imbuing him with 'sonhood'
     
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  4. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    1. Yes

    2. Yes

    3. Mary married Joseph. She became pregnant by Joseph. The soul of the Son of God (Jesus Spirit) attached to the child so as the child grew up He began to remember who He was.

    4. All humans are either Sons of God or Daughters of God. Jesus did have a human father, who was Joseph.


    The idea of immaculate conception was something the early Christians came up with to promote the idea of miracles but that is not what happened. Mary became pregnant by her husband Joseph in the normal way.
     
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  5. Power Stone

    Power Stone Unknown Member

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    I believe Jesus was the chosen one and on earth he was the same as you and me but what made him different was his death.
     
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  6. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    Quoting from Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI)
    The conception of Jesus is new creation, not begetting by God. God does not become the biological father of Jesus, and neither the New Testament nor the theology of the Church has fundamentally ever seen in this narrative or in the event recounted in it the ground for the real divinity of Jesus, his "Divine Sonship". According to the faith of the Church, the Divine Sonship of Jesus does not rest on the fact that Jesus had no human father, the doctrine of Jesus' divinity would not be affected if Jesus had been the product of a normal human marriage. For the Divine Sonship of which faith speaks is not a biological but an ontological fact, an event not in time but in God's eternity; God is always Father, Son and Spirit: the conception of Jesus means, not that a new God-the-Son comes into being, but that God as Son in the man Jesus draws the creature man to himself, so that he himself "is" man.
     
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  7. Augustus

    Augustus the Unreasonable

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    My online namesake Augustus was Imperator Caesar Divi filius, thus son of a god via his adopted father Julius.
     
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  8. RabbiO

    RabbiO הרב יונה בן זכריה

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    How come a rabbi has to point out the immaculate conception has nothing to do with how Jesus was conceived? It refers to Mary being without original sin.
     
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  9. 101G

    101G Member

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    GINOLJC, to all. Addressing the OP only.
    #1. Jesus is the Holy Spirit. who a. CREATED and MADE all things.. and it is Jesus who came in Flesh to REDEEM and SAVE all mankind.

    #2. NO, the Son of God is simply the flesh, the body that he Jesus shared himself in as the "Son". Son of is the Flesh that was to come.

    #3. ERROR, no assumptions, she was already pregnant while she was already Married to Joseph, meaning in an espoused marriage, she was betrothal to Joseph, but they had not yet come to gether in a sexual union to consummate the marriage, in order to be fully married.

    #4. Son of God only means flesh bone and Blood, other words having a body. Son of man is spirit. understand Son of God came out of Mary, Son of Man came from Heave. that the difference between the Son of God, and the Son of Man. for Jesus the Holy Spirit by his prophet Isaiah make the distinction clear..Isaiah 9:6 "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

    the child is the Son of God, the Son/spirit is the Son of man who came from heaven.. the Son of man is never born, but the son of God is born.

    PICJAG.
     
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  10. 101G

    101G Member

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    where is that in the bible? meaning your statement, "Mary became pregnant by her husband Joseph in the normal way". book chapter and verse please?.

    PICJAG.

    PICJAG
     
  11. Super Universe

    Super Universe Defender of God

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    That was written on an old post it note found in an alleyway by a homeless person.
     
  12. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

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    Do you also mean to say, the Son of God could have biological father, if God wanted it that way? Could have God made the Spirit of The Son, enter into someone else who was not born of a virgin, had God wanted it that way?
     
  13. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    Of course. We all are.

    Of course. We all are.

    In the story, his name was Joseph. And yes, all humans can come to know God in the way Jesus did. That's actually the point of the Christian faith. To be like Jesus. Not sure who puts a limit on that, or why. The Spirit of God can transform anyone into the image of God, or the Child of God. That's the whole point of it, and following the way which leads to that Realization, or "salvation".

    Everyone has to have a human father to be human, at least somewhere in that chain between sperm and egg. I don't think we have seen parthenogenesis in humans, while we do in species like the komodo dragon, which if a female is stranded alone on an island will produce male offspring to kickstart the population again.

    Yes, the story in the Bible of the virgin birth is beautiful, BTW. It doesn't need to be understood literally.
     
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  14. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    That would be what 'the product of a normal human marriage' would mean.
     
  15. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Investigate Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera
     
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  16. 1213

    1213 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus told people can become sons of God by this:

    But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God's children, to those who believe in his name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
    John 1:12-13

    It is the spirit who gives life. The flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and are life.
    John 6:63
     
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  17. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was born 'Son of God' not by blood, nor by the will of the flesh, nor by the will of man, but by the spirit of the Lord that descended upon him on the day he was baptised and the heavenly voice was heard to say, "You are my son, this day I have begotten thee, or as said in Hebrews 5: 5; "You are my son, today I have become your Father."

    The Son of Man, the most high in the creation, Our Lord God and savior, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob said to Moses in Deuteronomy 18: 18-19; “I will send them a prophet just like you from among their own people; I will put MY WORDS in his mouth, and he will tell the people everything that I command him to say. And whoever will not give heed to MY WORDS which he will speak in MY NAME, I will surely punish.”

    Peter confirms that Jesus was that man, when, concerning the man Jesus, he says in. Acts 3: 22; For Moses said; "The Lord your God will send you a prophet, just as he sent me, and he will be one of your own people, etc."

    Did the people of his day believe that he was the Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The God of our ancestors? No, they did not, for on the day of his triumphant entry into Jerusalem, the people escorting him cried out, "Blessed is he, who comes in the name of the Lord." Verifying that they believed Jesus to be the one that God had promised that he would choose from among the Israelites, and send to the people to speak in his name.
     
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  18. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    Jesus was The Word before Mary's pregancy.
    Was bot he son of God before Mary getting pregnant
    If Jesus was born of a human father, he would have died naturally
    IMV, he was made the Son of God in His resurrection - though he had the title before
     
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  19. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    YES.
    "So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was." (John 17:5; John 8:23)

    YES. He was not just "a son of God" (as angels are called) but he alone is "the only-begotten son of God" meaning that he was the very first and only direct creation of his Father. (Colossians 1:15-17) Adam is also called a 'son of God' because he was created, not born. (Luke 3:38)

    If Jesus existed before his earthly mission then of course he existed before Mary became pregnant.

    That negates the whole basis of his mission. As "the last Adam" Jesus offered up his perfect life as an exchange that was necessary for mankind's redemption.....he offered 'a sinless life for a sinless life'. If he was merely the biological product of Mary and Joseph, his life could never have cancelled Adam's sin...whose awful debt to the human race resulted in death for all of us....and we would all still have no hope.
    Do you understand the law of redemption given to Israel?

    If Jesus had not been the equivalent to Adam (sinless and physically perfect) and had he not been executed, he would not have died of natural causes and he would not have been subject to illnesses....but as a perfect human being (the equivalent to Adam in all respects) he would never have aged, or become ill, or suffered with any of the afflictions that plague the human race. I don't think humans realize what was lost when Adam threw us all under the bus. God has been showing us what it means to abuse free will ever since....the ramifications are like the endless ripples in a pond. Will we ever learn the lessons?

    Christians await the time, so near now we believe, when God will hold all humans to an accounting for how they have lived the lives that he has given them. No one will escape this judgment. (Hebrews 4:13)

    As Jesus said, his return would see the earth again filled with violence and immorality (Matthew 24:37-39)....and here we are.
     
    #19 Deeje, Jul 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2020
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  20. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

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    It was only after Joseph the son of Jacob, who had remained engaged to Mary, who was already pregnant to her half brother Joseph the son of Alexander Helios, who is also called Heli, and having had no sexual relations with her until after she had given birth to Jesus, the first of her sons, finally consummated their union and she bore to him a son, who was named Joseph, after his father, 'Joseph the son of Jacob.'

    Jesus was born 'Son of God,' not by blood, nor by the will of the flesh, nor by the will of man, but by the spirit of our Lord, who, on the day of his baptism, descended upon Jesus in the form of a dove as the heavenly voice was heard to say; "You are my son, this day I have begotten thee. Or as said in Hebrews 5: 5; "You are my son, TODAY I have become your Father."
     
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