• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Could Jesus been born with a father and still be Son of God?

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
That Jesus was sinless is not true of Mark's Jesus, who had to have his sins washed off him by JtB before the heavens opened and God adopted him as [his] son.

The parents of Jesus in Mark's story aren't specifically named, but they were ordinary Jews and they weren't of the line of David.

The parents of Paul's and John's Jesuses are implied, but neither Paul nor the author of John addresses Jesus' birth as a distinct event, or names his parents, or says anything of them except that as a result Jesus was of the line of David.

The parents of Matthew's and Luke's Jesuses are the virgin Mary and God, meaning, as we've discussed before, that Jesus had God's Y-chromosome (otherwise she'd be Jesa). I think we've previously also touched on the absurdity of the fake and incompatible genealogies in Matthew and Luke trying to make him a descendant of David.

I don't recall any passage in the NT where Jesus says he's sinless. Does he make such a claim?

Judas repented saying he'd betrayed an innocent, the apostles said "no deceit or anything wrong was in Him," and the Pharisees could not find two (required) witnesses to catch Him in any sin--they executed Him for blasphemy/equating Himself with God.

Jesus died claiming divinity. God is without sin and died on the cross IMHO to pay our sin.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Judas repented saying he'd betrayed an innocent, the apostles said "no deceit or anything wrong was in Him," and the Pharisees could not find two (required) witnesses to catch Him in any sin--they executed Him for blasphemy/equating Himself with God.
Considering that each of the five NT versions of Jesus expressly denies he's God and never once claims to be God, they got that part of the story wrong.

The fact remains that Mark's Jesus at the least had to have his sins washed off before he could become son of God.
Jesus died claiming divinity. God is without sin and died on the cross IMHO to pay our sin.
Please quote me the part where Jesus dies claiming divinity. I'm not aware of any such part. As I said, each of the versions of Jesus is unambiguous in denying he's God.
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
Considering that each of the five NT versions of Jesus expressly denies he's God and never once claims to be God, they got that part of the story wrong.

The fact remains that Mark's Jesus at the least had to have his sins washed off before he could become son of God.
Please quote me the part where Jesus dies claiming divinity. I'm not aware of any such part. As I said, each of the versions of Jesus is unambiguous in denying he's God.

Where in Mark does it say that Jesus had to have his sins washed away? Maybe I read your post wrong? IF I did, sorry about that......... Jesus was sinless, if he did have sins, then he wouldnt have been the Messiah, it would have been someone else.

Part of the sacrifices on having a unblemished or unspotted animal in the OT was done for a reason. The Law was to lead us to Christ. When we read Hebrews, esp 9, it talks about how Christ was the perfect sacrifice. The Messiah had to be sinless. He had to overcome sin. Also read Romans 6.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Where in Mark does it say that Jesus had to have his sins washed away?
Mark 1:9 ... Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw the heavens opened and the Spirit descending upon him like a dove; 11 and a voice came to him from heaven, "Thou art my beloved son, with thee I am well pleased."

So it was the baptism, the washing away of sins with water, that prepared Mark's Jesus for adoption as the Son of God, just as David had become Son of God.
Jesus was sinless, if he did have sins, then he wouldnt have been the Messiah, it would have been someone else.
Matthew's Jesus needed to be baptized (Matthew 3:13-17). Why would he need to be baptized were he sinless? Luke's Jesus (Luke 3:21-22) also needed to be baptized. (Those passages are obviously copied from Mark, in the synoptic manner.) What is baptism but the washing away of sins?
In Matthew and Luke, JtB expresses embarrassment, but it still has to be done.

And maybe after a properly performed baptism you're deemed to be sinless. Why not?
When we read Hebrews, esp 9, it talks about how Christ was the perfect sacrifice. The Messiah had to be sinless. He had to overcome sin. Also read Romans 6.
But that's Paul's Jesus. The Jesuses of Paul and John are not, as far as I recall, said to be baptized, but then, they're not said not to be baptized either.
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
Judas repented saying he'd betrayed an innocent, the apostles said "no deceit or anything wrong was in Him," and the Pharisees could not find two (required) witnesses to catch Him in any sin--they executed Him for blasphemy/equating Himself with God.

Jesus died claiming divinity. God is without sin and died on the cross IMHO to pay our sin.

[Jesus died claiming divinity. God is without sin and died on the cross IMHO to pay our sin.]

I'm trying to figure out where your getting this from. Do you have a verse on this?

You meJesus died claiming divinity.... Are you saying that Jesus thought that he was God or "a god"? And you mentioned that God died on the cross. No, that's wrong, God doesnt die. Jesus died, he was a man on the cross. What makes you say that Jesus "paided" for our sins? This was not a substitutionary event where Jesus died so we dont have to. This was out of love on his Father's part. What did Jesus accomplished on the cross? Do you think that God was punishing His son?
Mark 1:9 ... Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw the heavens opened and the Spirit descending upon him like a dove; 11 and a voice came to him from heaven, "Thou art my beloved son, with thee I am well pleased."

So it was the baptism, the washing away of sins with water, that prepared Mark's Jesus for adoption as the Son of God, just as David had become Son of God.
Matthew's Jesus needed to be baptized (Matthew 3:13-17). Why would he need to be baptized were he sinless? Luke's Jesus (Luke 3:21-22) also needed to be baptized. (Those passages are obviously copied from Mark, in the synoptic manner.) What is baptism but the washing away of sins?
In Matthew and Luke, JtB expresses embarrassment, but it still has to be done.

And maybe after a properly performed baptism you're deemed to be sinless. Why not?
But that's Paul's Jesus. The Jesuses of Paul and John are not, as far as I recall, said to be baptized, but then, they're not said not to be baptized either.


Thanks for your posts. Great questions too!!

Ok, first of all. Do you really think that Jesus sinned when scripture tells us that he didnt. So... why did Jesus get baptised? Great question!!

Mark 1 only tells us that Jesus was baptised, nothing about Jesus's sins. Does not say anything about Jesus having sins to be forgiven too. We always have to remember that everything is of GOD. Jesus was baptised to make GOD right. To make God right in that our sin nature, that is prone to sin, has to be put to death. (Romans 6). Having your sins forgiven is just a sub-catagory of this reason. We follow Jesus into his death and his life when we get baptised. We are also then, now in a covenant relationship with our Creator and we are now "in Christ" or "put on Christ" with Jesus. (Gal 3). And.... we are now in the promises with Abraham and Christ. So there are many benifits to getting baptised. It's not just the forgiveness of sins, though that is a big part of it.

Jesus is also showing us that this is what I want you to do. Follow me. This is the way, walk ye in it.

[So it was the baptism, the washing away of sins with water, that prepared Mark's Jesus for adoption as the Son of God, just as David had become Son of God.]
Jesus was the son of God before he was baptised. Baptism didnt make Jesus the son of God. David became the son of God? Or.... are you saying, one of the "sons of God", like us. ... not sure what your really saying here.
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
What made him son of God was that he was born of the Father. Luke 1 v 35 tells us that God's Spirit went into Mary and overshadowed her, meaning God planted a seed in her to have a child. Because God was involved that child is to be the son of God. Scripture also tells us that this was in God's plans before He made the world. Scripture even tells us that God knew us before we were born. Look at Jeremiah 1v5, it tells us that God knew Jeremiah and "made him' a prophet before he was born. God uses this kind of language like it's already happened. Even Abraham. I will make thee a great nation, your seed will be many..... Abraham didnt even have a son yet. But by faith, Abraham knew God could do that.

Just like God also knew that Jesus would die before he was even born. It wasnt a punishment, it was out of love.
So, what do you mean by God planted seed in Mary? Do you mean, God used His own sperm to impregnate Mary, thereby Jesus became God son, having His gene or essence?
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
So, what do you mean by God planted seed in Mary? Do you mean, God used His own sperm to impregnate Mary, thereby Jesus became God son, having His gene or essence?


No, I mean, by his Spirit (luke 1) He "overshadowed" Mary. And what does that mean? Making her pregnant. How "exactly" did He do it? We dont know. We do know that his Spirit enter into Mary and she became pregnant.

And no, God does not have sperm. Dont know why you would even say that....
 

InvestigateTruth

Well-Known Member
No, I mean, by his Spirit (luke 1) He "overshadowed" Mary. And what does that mean? Making her pregnant. How "exactly" did He do it? We dont know. We do know that his Spirit enter into Mary and she became pregnant.

And no, God does not have sperm. Dont know why you would even say that....
Thanks, I only want to understand how Christians interpret virgin birth, and sonship of Jesus.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Do you really think that Jesus sinned when scripture tells us that he didnt. So... why did Jesus get baptised? Great question!!
A quick search of 'sin' and 'sinless' in the NT (RSV) relevantly turns up only Romans 6:7 and I don't think it's referring to Jesus anyway.

So where in the NT is the claim expressly made that Jesus is sinless?
 
Last edited:

moorea944

Well-Known Member
A quick search of 'sin' and 'sinless' in the NT (RSV) relevantly turns up only Romans 6:7 and I don't think it's referring to Jesus anyway.

So where in the NT is the claim expressly made that Jesus is sinless?


2 Cor 5v21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."

This is a bad translation.

In the org Greek, word for word, it should say.... "the-one for no (not) knowing sin for-sake-of us he makes that we may-be-becoming righteousness of-God in Him"

Other translations are.... "For the one not knowing sin, He makes to be a sin offering for our sakes that we may be becoming God's righteousness in Him."

1. So why was Jesus made a "sin offering" then?......
2. Plus..... Not only are we told that Jesus went into heaven, we are also told why he went to heaven!!

These first two elements, corrupted living and guilty moral standing, are not what sin is, they are simply the outflow of sin. Sin’s essence must be understood as a state of being; it is a corruption of ontology. The prophet Jeremiah asks “Is there no balm in Gilead? Is there no physician there? Why then is there no healing for the wound of my people?” (8:22) The prophet views sin as an affliction that needs healing. This is echoed by Paul in Ephesians 2 when he says that we were “dead” in our transgressions and sins. Sin is a disease that we can do nothing about, however, the New Covenant that God makes with his people in Ezekiel 36:25-27 says,

"I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws."

Jeremiah’s cry for a balm to heal the sickness (sin) of his people will be given by God as promised to Ezekiel. God promises a cleansing; a new heart and a new spirit. We will be totally recreated so that we will “walk” in His statutes. Unless our corrupt natures are healed, we will never walk the correct path. For the totality of sin to be fixed, there must be a solution that is more than simply forgiveness of wrongdoing and a moral example for us to follow. There must be a solution to sin that includes the recreation of our natures, the healing of our hearts of stone. And through baptism, (Romans 6) we are cleansed of our sins, amoung other things too. We follow Jesus into his death and life in those waters. Paul says that we are a new man now when we get baptised. We also need to walk in the spirit or ways of our God.

There are only 2 ways that we dont sin. They are when we die and when someday we are made immortal.

Romans 8v3 "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:" Romans 8 and Hebrews 2 tells us that Christ won the war on sin and condemned sin in the flesh. He "had to have" the same nature as us. Heb 2 also tells us that too.

1 Peter 2v21 "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:"

Hebrews 4v14 "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

1 John 3v4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin."

It is highly significant that in one as sensitive morally as was Jesus and who taught His followers to ask for the forgiveness of their sins there is no hint of any need of forgiveness for Himself, no asking of pardon, either from those about Him or of God.

The Pharisees and other leaders diligently observed Jesus, committed to finding fault in Him and trap Him in His own words. What, however, was the best they could come up with? That He:
~ Broke the Sabbath by doing work on it
~ Was a friend to tax collectors and other sinners, and even ate with them
~ Claimed to be the King of the Jews
~ Taught the people to refuse to pay taxes to Caesar
~ Threatened to destroy the Jerusalem temple
~ Cast out demons because He was in league with Beelzebul (the Devil)
~ Committed blasphemy by forgiving sins
~ Committed blasphemy by claiming to be the Son of God or equal to God


The Jews thought that this was sin that Jesus was doing, because it went "against" the Law that was given to them by Moses. Even Paul tells them in the book of Romans that everything has changed now in Christ.
I hope this helps esp with 1 Peter 2, Heb 4 and 1 John 3.

1. So why was Jesus made a sin offering then?
Because without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins.
Hebrews 9

2. Why did Jesus have to die and go to heaven?
So many verses on this I'm not going to list them all. But here's some....

John 3 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Romans 5v8 "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us."

So again..... why did the Messiah have to die. The book of Hebrews (along with many other books) tells us that. Read Hebrews chapters 8-10. We also compare
Hebrews 9 with Lev 16. Paul is comparing the two High Priests.

The Levitical priesthood had to scrafice every year for the sins of Israel. The High Priest entered into the Most Holy place once a year to atone for the sins.
Hebrew 9 tells us that, Christ, a High Priest himself of good things to come, entered into the Most Holy place too. But this one was different. It was a tabernacle, not made of hands, but into Heaven it's self. But why?

Christ was the perfect sacrifice. He only had to be a sacrifice only once. Why did he have to die? Because without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins. We learn that even with Adam and Eve. And because of that, we now have access to have our sins to be forgiven through baptism (
Romans 6) and praying to our heavenly Father for forgiveness. We pray to God, not Jesus for that.
Why did Jesus go to heaven? Again... Hebrews 9

"For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:
25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

Sorry for the long answer......





 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
2 Cor 5v21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him."
I checked the Greek, thanks. It says he made him, who knew no sin, to be sin ...

That doesn't sound like a claim of sinlessness, whichever way I look at it ─ exactly the opposite, which makes the baptism relevant.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
There's an idea, once popular, that Jesus was just a man, born of Mary and Joseph in the normal way, and that God ADOPTED him as his anointed son.

No miraculous pregnancy required. Just God selecting Jesus and imbuing him with 'sonhood'
There's something deeply ironic about the answers in this thread. And not just the huge array of explanations given for the basically irrational concepts from the (later) Gospels.

The Messiah, by Jewish lore, had one job. Rescue "God's Chosen People" from foreign oppression and return them to an exalted sovereign people. "Anointed", not "Begotten". The Messiah wasn't a demigod or "Person of a Trinitarian God". He was a warrior king.

So, if Jesus were considered a Messiah by His Jewish disciples He must have been part of a violent anti-Roman guerrilla team. There were lots of those in Judea in Jesus's day. Doesn't mean that's all He preached or did. But He did get convicted and executed for treason against Rome. So.....

On the other hand, demigods were quite common in pagan lore. A God like Zeus has sex with a mortal woman and produces a child with superpowers. If a Hellenistic Jew, like Paul, wanted to make Christianity more plausible to a pagan audience making Jesus into a demigod would be an obvious method.

And so the Legend of the Christ started growing. Especially outside the Jewish culture, because Jews knew what a Messiah really did and wouldn't accept some pagan demigod as Messiah. Especially when he failed at the one thing he was required to do.

To me, Christian theology is the paganization of Judaism. The torturous rationalizations needed to accept oxymorons like "Trinitarian Monotheism" is proof(compelling evidence) that Jesus Christ is a fictional character.
Tom
 

soulsurvivor

Active Member
Premium Member
1. Was Jesus a Spirit in Heaven Prior to Mary's Pregnancy?

2. Was Jesus son of God, before Mary getting pregnant?


3. Let's assume if Mary became pregnant after marrying Joseph, could still Jesus become the Child if Mary got pregnant by Joseph??

4. Or what made Jesus Son of God, was only possible, when Jesus did not have a human father?
Jesus never claimed to be the Son of God. He said he was the Son of Man. Jesus was indeed in heaven before his birth, but then so were we all. The difference was that at his baptism, the spirit of the Christ entered Jesus's body making him the Christ or Son of God. Before that he was just a man (but a very holy one).
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
Mark 1:9 ... Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10 And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw the heavens opened and the Spirit descending upon him like a dove; 11 and a voice came to him from heaven, "Thou art my beloved son, with thee I am well pleased."

So it was the baptism, the washing away of sins with water, that prepared Mark's Jesus for adoption as the Son of God, just as David had become Son of God.
Matthew's Jesus needed to be baptized (Matthew 3:13-17). Why would he need to be baptized were he sinless? Luke's Jesus (Luke 3:21-22) also needed to be baptized. (Those passages are obviously copied from Mark, in the synoptic manner.) What is baptism but the washing away of sins?
In Matthew and Luke, JtB expresses embarrassment, but it still has to be done.

And maybe after a properly performed baptism you're deemed to be sinless. Why not?
But that's Paul's Jesus. The Jesuses of Paul and John are not, as far as I recall, said to be baptized, but then, they're not said not to be baptized either.

Genesis 5: 23; Enoch was 365 and had spent his life in fellowship with God when he disappeared because God had Taken him.

Hebrews 11: 5; "By faith Enoch was Translated (To change from one form to another) so that he should not experience death; and he was not found, because God had Translated him.

Enoch, the most important man in the OT and the NT, and yet he has been rejected by both the Jewish church and the Roman church of Emperor Constantine.

"The Book of the Secrets of Enoch" 22: 8; "And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: "Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before my face into eternity."

And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord"s face.

[Archistratege. Or, "the commander of the armies of the nations, named Michael."]

And the Most High, (who held the ransom blood of righteous Abel) said to the glorious creatures that surrounded him, tempting them: "Let Enoch stand before my face into eternity," and the glorious creatures bowed down to the Lord, and said: "Let Enoch go [Or be released] according to Thy word." Enoch, was the first to be released.

The Great and glorious simulacrum which is the sacrifice that God has prepared for us, and the blue-print of the new Temple of God which is to replace his old temporary earthly tabernacle/tent [The Body of Mankind] as the ruler of the creation, of which Enoch was the chosen cornerstone, dies in the process of involution, to be the saviour of we in evolution, This he does by releasing all the righteous spirits that are He, from the least to the greatest, and Enoch was the first.

And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." [Enoch, is the one who was anointed as the successor to the Godhead: CHRIST=The anointed one]

And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun’s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

KJV 1 Peter 3: 21; The flood in which the 8 souls were saved, was a symbol of baptism, which saves us (Not of the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.)

Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives are all direct genetic descendants of Enoch, the only man redeemed from the previous world as spoken of by 2nd Peter 3: 5; as they are all descendants of Enoch’s six sons, Methusulah, Rigam, Riman, Urchan, Cherminion, and Giadad.

The Baptism in which the old body of Adam is submerged in the baptismal waters, and the body of Enoch the righteous arises.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Genesis 5: 23; Enoch was 365 and had spent his life in fellowship with God when he disappeared because God had Taken him.

Hebrews 11: 5; "By faith Enoch was Translated (To change from one form to another) so that he should not experience death; and he was not found, because God had Translated him.

Enoch, the most important man in the OT and the NT, and yet he has been rejected by both the Jewish church and the Roman church of Emperor Constantine.

"The Book of the Secrets of Enoch" 22: 8; "And I fell prone and bowed down to the Lord, and the Lord with his lips said to me: "Have courage, Enoch, do not fear, arise and stand before my face into eternity."

And the archistratiege Michael lifted me up, and led me before the Lord"s face.

[Archistratege. Or, "the commander of the armies of the nations, named Michael."]

And the Most High, (who held the ransom blood of righteous Abel) said to the glorious creatures that surrounded him, tempting them: "Let Enoch stand before my face into eternity," and the glorious creatures bowed down to the Lord, and said: "Let Enoch go [Or be released] according to Thy word." Enoch, was the first to be released.

The Great and glorious simulacrum which is the sacrifice that God has prepared for us, and the blue-print of the new Temple of God which is to replace his old temporary earthly tabernacle/tent [The Body of Mankind] as the ruler of the creation, of which Enoch was the chosen cornerstone, dies in the process of involution, to be the saviour of we in evolution, This he does by releasing all the righteous spirits that are He, from the least to the greatest, and Enoch was the first.

And the Lord said to Michael: "Go take Enoch from out his earthly garments, and anoint him with my sweet ointment, and put him into the garments of my glory." [Enoch, is the one who was anointed as the successor to the Godhead: CHRIST=The anointed one]

And Michael did thus as the Lord told him. He anointed me, and dressed me, and the appearance of that ointment is more than the great light, and his ointment is like sweet dew, and its smell mild, shining like the sun’s rays, and I looked at myself, and was like one of his glorious ones.

KJV 1 Peter 3: 21; The flood in which the 8 souls were saved, was a symbol of baptism, which saves us (Not of the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God.)

Noah, his wife, their three sons and their wives are all direct genetic descendants of Enoch, the only man redeemed from the previous world as spoken of by 2nd Peter 3: 5; as they are all descendants of Enoch’s six sons, Methusulah, Rigam, Riman, Urchan, Cherminion, and Giadad.

The Baptism in which the old body of Adam is submerged in the baptismal waters, and the body of Enoch the righteous arises.
But the questions here are whether any version of Jesus in the NT made the express claim that he was sinless (apparently not); with the observation that the three synoptic Jesuses were all baptized, which would be unnecessary were they sinless.
 

The Anointed

Well-Known Member
But the questions here are whether any version of Jesus in the NT made the express claim that he was sinless (apparently not); with the observation that the three synoptic Jesuses were all baptized, which would be unnecessary were they sinless.

Of course the man Jesus was not sinless, when the young man referred to him as Good, he said; Why do you call me good? no one is good except God alone. it was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who filled the man Jesus with his words=spirit, 'The Son of Man,' and only begotten son of God, who, like mankind, who had developed within the bodies of our animal ancestors, had developed within the body of mankind, and who pays the death penalty for the sins of the flesh in which he developed, who himself is sinless.

It was 'The son of Man,' who spoke through the prophet King David, saying in Psalms 51:.5, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity and in sin did my Mother (Eve the body of mankind) conceive me.

When Jesus on the cross gave up his spirit and cried out, "My God, My God why have you abandoned me," He, 'The Son of Man' who could never die, who was taken to the throne of the MOST HIGH in creation at the age of 365, and anointed as the heir and successor to the throne of the Most High, and translated from a physical body into a glorious body of brilliant and blinding Light in order that he should never experience death and was the cornerstone to which the spirits of the righteous were gathered in the creation of God's new temple of Light, which would replace mankind as the ruler of creation, ceased to be an individual entity, by releasing all the spirits of the righteous who had been gathered to him in his evolution from man to God, which righteous spirits came out of their graves, and three days later, entered the Holy city and revealed themselves as the risen body of 'The Son of Man' and only begotten son of God.
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
But the questions here are whether any version of Jesus in the NT made the express claim that he was sinless (apparently not); with the observation that the three synoptic Jesuses were all baptized, which would be unnecessary were they sinless.

What sins do you think Jesus did? Just curious.......
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What sins do you think Jesus did? Just curious.......
Our friend @The Anointed just reminded me of

Luke 18:18 And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.
Jesus' most obvious sin was his histrionic rage against the money-changers in the Temple, who were acting with the full permission of the Temple authorities, earning a much more honest living than many, working within a tradition that was also part of the economic life of the Temple itself, in short lawfully going about their business.

So when he physically assaulted them, he was guilty of a breach of the peace, assault and battery, damage to property, hypocrisy in not turning the other cheek, self-righteousness, judging others (lest ye be judged), and no doubt more. This is a guy who likes people to think he voluntarily hung out with tax collectors and other riffraff, after all.

And he wantonly killed someone's ─ olive? ─ tree in a fit of pique at some point, didn't he?

And he manipulated and framed Judas.

Did he ever pay compensation to the owners of the pigs he sent over the cliff?

And that's just off the top of my head.
 
Top