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Featured Children should be permitted to make up their own minds about religion

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by JJ50, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Anything being forced down someone's throat sounds cruel, :eek: but I have witnesses situations where health care providers used such measures to administer medicine, to a patient "in order to save a life".
    Are you in agreement with forcing medicine on persons, who refuse it? I would certainly agree that seem cruel, and I certainly wouldn't like it to happen to anyone.

    What exactly do you mean though, by
    How was their faith forced down your throat? Can you explain please?
     
  2. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    So you're saying that all common beliefs are necessarily religions? I would hope not. And I reject your claim that secularism is commonly believed to be a religion.
    As I pointed out, secularism is merely a position or stance. An "indifference to or rejection or exclusion of religion and religious considerations."
    (Merriam Webster)

    It's not a religion in any kind of terms.

    Painting secularism as a religion is nothing but a simpleminded ploy to put it on par with actual religions, something the courts have decided have no business being taught in public schools.

    In three words: It's transparently stupid.

    .

    .
     
    #22 Skwim, Jan 9, 2019
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  3. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Yes, I think children should be allowed to make up their own minds. For 99% that will come anyway, at adulthood. But it's not that simple. Most learning is done by watching examples, and from experience, and generally that's their parents. So if their parents are of a faith, it is highly probably that most of the child's experience will be related to that faith. So it's less about direct teaching, and tryng to control it, and more about the experiences you give them. That all changes in the teens, as they can and will refuse to participate, unless there is an iron hand.

    None of my own children are practicing Hindus, yet all are vegetarian. I guess that says the action of vegetarianism made more sense than ritual worship.
     
    #23 Vinayaka, Jan 9, 2019
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  4. Shantanu

    Shantanu Well-Known Member

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    They have to get their knowledge from somewhere: parents are as good as any other source. Soon they will be influenced by what they learn at school and from friends. When they grow up they will learn science and history, join internet forums and so on. Education is something that parents should encourage but more important than that are life skills to survive in a difficult world.
     
  5. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. My experience is not entirely dissimilar. My wife and I were both brought up Catholic but were not strong believers and did not go to mass - until our son arrived. We then had a discussion about whether to bring him up with the Catholic faith or without it. And we decided to bring him up with it, largely on cultural and aesthetic grounds.

    We reasoned that it would be very hard for him to get a real idea of what religion was like from the outside (there are so many off-putting stereotypes), whereas if he was brought up with it, he could always decide to leave it and then he would at least have had the benefit of understanding the culture of Europe (the history, the art, the music, the literature, the buildings), all of which is suffused with Christianity. We were fairly insistent he should follow it through to confirmation, but then, having got his credentials as it were, we would take a more relaxed attitude according to what he thought.

    He is now 15 and says he does not really believe in God any more, which is fair enough. We talk about it openly and I admit to him my own doubts about doctrine - my wife having died in the meantime. He has chosen Theology and Philosophy as one of his optional subjects at school and is quite good at it. So he is a thoughtful sceptic, rather than dismissively scornful. But he is also still friends with people from the church and with the priests - he has been an altar server, so understands a bit of the symbolism of the ritual and so on and has got to know them.

    I feel convinced this will stand him in good stead. He can leave it alone, or he may possibly return to it at some later stage in his life. If he wants to do that, he can do so with ease, as he knows the ropes and won't feel there is some great hurdle to overcome. And even if not, he will understand what is depicted in a mediaeval painting, or what a Bach cantata or a Tallis motet is about, and will be able to recognise a biblical reference in a c.19 novel or a Shakespeare play.
     
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  6. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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  7. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    What are you talking about? People have the right to refuse medical treatment in the United States.
     
  8. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    At the same time education is needed. Thus a necessary part of education is giving a child a strong education in matters of spiritual well being. That would include but not limited to an overview of values, the worlds religions and worlds cultures.

    Regards Tony
     
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  9. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    That is an axiom not merely an assumption. Still the point overall is true. We all operate (live) with a set of axioms most of humanity shares. Such as I am not a brain in a jar, you are not an npc of a simulation, etc.
     
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  10. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    It sounds like you have a great family! Good for you!

    Best wishes.
     
  11. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what you think you're describing here but it isn't secularism. Secularism is a socio-political position, not a theistic one, about equal treatment regardless of religious beliefs and opinions. Many religious people are secular (even if they don't realise it). "Secular education" doesn't make any kind of assumption or assertion about "spirituality" at all.
     
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  12. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    What are you talking about?
     
  13. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Nope. It definitely is not a religion, by any reasonable definition of that word.
     
  14. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    And some of those imposed beliefs can be downright nasty. I have seen it happen far too often.

    Even when they are resisted, the atmosphere of oppression can be terrible.

    Parents should never presume to have the power to decide their children's beliefs. Or anyone's really.
     
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  15. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    There is probably a bit more at work than just that.

    One of the reasons why people seek religions to fulfill and realize what is not already with them. I trust that your children acquired a fair degree of awareness of Hindu beliefs from your example.

    Of course, Hinduism is a lot less about belief as such than the Abrahamics.
     
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  16. Firemorphic

    Firemorphic Activist Membrane

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    Children shouldn't have a religion forced upon them (heck, they don't start to intellectually understand stuff till their teens) but they should be exposed to it and shouldn't be denied the right to it as they grow up. It seems on either side there is people screaming "I'm your parent and I am right" whether it comes from a secular or religious parent.
    Certainly when it comes to me personally, when I settle down to have a child and it grows up, I will be positively exposing them to a wide variety of religious/spiritual and secular thought. They will know that their father and mother are strong Muslims (in the case of me and my partner) but at the same time, they will know their parents have provided them with a smorgasbord (and library of religious and secular literature) to take from and make up their own minds. :)
     
  17. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    I remember Jesus Camp run by Becky Fischer and discovered that not all the children , who are now adults remained Christian. Unfortunately, in reading about their experiences then to now, you can still see the type of damage that spiritual indoctrination does to people when it comes to the essential skills needed and required for critical and speculative examination and critique.

    Still, it's good to see some later questioning what they have been taught in spite of those remaining whom lost the ability to question and examine with scrutiny.
     
  18. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Vegetarianism is accepted in western society and is essentially invisible whereas some of the other stuff would be far less accepted, and far more visible.
     
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  19. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Have you ever been in a public school system? We're still going to court to keep Christian mythos out of the science cirriculum. And if this "indoctrination" is so widespread and strong, why is 70-some percent of America Christian, with the remaining population being mostly theist of some sort?
     
  20. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Any sources? It would be interesting to see how those kids turned out.
     
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