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Featured Children should be permitted to make up their own minds about religion

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by JJ50, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    He'll understand Homer as well as anyone - in fact better than most, seeing as he is interested in Greek and Roman mythology. History is his main academic interest: to understand European history a knowledge of Christianity is very useful. My mother taught English literature for many years at our local 6th Form college and, towards the end, bitterly lamented the inability of most students to understand a religious reference. I'm a choral singer so I am well aware how much of the serious vocal music repertoire concerns religious subjects. And so on.

    One little example: I've been to Ephesus and seen the chi rho egraved on the stones. If you can think to yourself, "So this is where St Paul preached and wrote to the Ephesians, as we hear in church on Sundays", it brings the ancient stones to life.

    I don't argue it is critical, but it certainly helps quite a bit to understand what motivated and inspired the people of the past.
     
  2. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    True. i knee every night in front of my bed , before going to sleep, and recite the pythagorean theorem and the evolutionary path of some holy species.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  3. JJ50

    JJ50 Active Member

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    :D
     
  4. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Perhaps modern day mythology would hold his interest less than the Greek mythology?
     
  5. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Well yes, yes, haha, OK, I get the picture, you have to get in a dig against Christianity somehow. :rolleyes:
     
  6. Marcion

    Marcion Departed Member

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    Religious dogma should not be forced on children but spiritual discipline should definitely be taught at an early age so that it can become a habit without which it is much harder to change your ways when you are grown up.

    Just like you teach your kids how to daily brush their teeth and keep their body clean, you can also introduce them in a playful way to spiritual practices such as simplified forms of meditation, chanting, bhajan singing, attending spiritual retreats and reading spiritual scriptures.

    But there should never be any force to do anything they dislike at a young age or even when older.
    If a child e.g. decides to start eating meat after the age of let's say 12 years, they should be told why that is a bad thing but they should make that choice freely (outside the home). You can't and should not force a spiritual life style on anyone.
     
  7. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    No, no. Just pointing out that you are sure that he can understand Homer better than most but would be less capable when it comes to Christian mythology. I don't think that it was a dig. And I certainly acknowledge there are benefits to practicing and learning the practices of the major religions. I just think that the insider vs. outsider aspect does not serve more intellectually advantageous. It certainly isn't disadvantageous.
     
  8. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    This is quite a sweeping statement, and quite erroneous. First of all, there are a lot of people who don't like the separation of church and state, and would dearly love to see their brand of religion celebrated by the state. (I get the distinct feeling youre probably one of them.) Secondly, a lot of people, myself included, are quite concerned to see that the separation of church and state is preserved.

    Not sure what this means, but if it means more than the implication inherent in the term "separation of church and state" please share.

    Examples please.

    Who says they're not? As far as I know, other than as issues germane to history, religion isn't brought up at all.

    Why?

    Then I assume the tenets of Satanism should also be taught like the fourth tenet of Satanism: "The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend." OR the fifth tenet: "Beliefs should conform to one's best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one's beliefs."

    And Walpurgis Night, the Day of the Dead, Birth of the Bab, and Diwali.

    Then how about classes in the occult where they can learn about spiritualism; reading tarot cards, seances, divination, spells, and the ouija board?

    Absolutely, because the sooner they're aware of the power of divination the better off they'll be.

    And we shouldn't have sympathy toward them?

    Well, for one thing, our constitution says that in public schools that's were religious practices belong.

    Examples please.

    I'm afraid you've missed the meaning of "indoctrination."

    Gotta say, if you were honestly a teacher, I feel for your students.

    .

    .
     
  9. dianaiad

    dianaiad Well-Known Member

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    Y'know, another poster mentioned that you were one of the two people she put on her ignore list. this post is one of the reasons that you are going to be the first one on mine. You have altered my post, spent the whole thing on insults, and are just plain not worth the reading or responding time.

    Oh...just because I DID read this one, I'll respond to the longest point you made, about all the different beliefs that you don't like, and expect that I wouldn't like either, being welcomed or explored in school; the 4th and 5th whatevers of Satanism (which is actually atheism in a fancy suit...at least that version is) divination, Dwali, a whole bunch of others....

    My answer to this is...if those belief systems have students whose families follow them, then...

    yes. They should be welcomed. Each and every one of 'em. Whether you approve of them or not.

    And I wouldn't worry about my students, were I you. I taught English...reading to the kids who can't get past third grade, and students who were writing college level papers on the deeper meaning of "Ulysses." (which, in my opinion, can only have a deeper meaning, since a casual first read through isn't going to find one) .

    Comparative religion never really came up much.

    But I do notice the last, couldn't help it, could you, personal slam. I don't need that sort of thing.
     
  10. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Then I suggest you keep your conversations among the choir. Obviously you're far too thin skinned to actually debate issues in a debate forum.

    My "personal slam" was only made in response to your insulting presumption that RF readers here are dumb enough to fall for your ridiculous remarks. We aren't. So as far as I see it, we're even. [​IMG]

    .




    .
     
  11. Prestor John

    Prestor John Well-Known Member

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    Where did I say that a child should not think for themselves or make their own choices?

    Where did I say that they shouldn't be given the opportunity to discuss things with their parents?

    Where did I say that parents are always right?

    All I said was that children, while they are still children and live at home, should do as their parents instruct them to do.

    It is just like you said, "Children should of course keep the "House Rules" even when they disagree with them."
     
  12. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Well-Known Member

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    You said that physicians can force medical procedures and medication on patients, when in fact, this is against the law.
     
  13. Prestor John

    Prestor John Well-Known Member

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    Whatever the parents want.

    They are their beliefs and their children.
     
  14. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    You're missing the point. If the parents wanted their children to be suicide bombers, have sex with them or traffic drugs for them, I'd hope you'd recognise that as wrong. So again, it isn't just about the children doing whatever their parents want but also the parents doing the right thing for their children. With great power comes great responsibility.
     
  15. Prestor John

    Prestor John Well-Known Member

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    First off, the OP clearly paints the context of this discussion being about religion and children, to which I still strongly believe that any child, who is still a child and lives at home, should do as instructed by their parents.

    As to everything else you mentioned, unless you believe that child abuse laws are being broken, how a parent raises their children is none of our business.

    Also, I don't understand why my claim that children should do as instructed leads people to think that there can be no discussion or learning had between the parents and the children or that there should be tyranny in the home.

    The first thing that children are is not human - but rather literal spiritual children of God. The Ruler of the Universe.

    Any parent who abuses their offspring will ultimately be answerable to Him for their behavior toward His heirs and heiresses.
     
  16. Prestor John

    Prestor John Well-Known Member

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    Why do you assume I advocate such illegal and immoral actions?

    Can we please keep this discussion in the realms of sanity and reason?
     
  17. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

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    I assumed you wouldn't which is why I used them as extreme examples to demonstrate my point, and the point of the thread, which is the responsibilities of parents rather than of their children. :cool:
     
  18. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I said no such thing.
    Can you show me the words where I said that please?
     
  19. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    I find the similitude of this as one who is raised in a religious household and believes religion ought to have a foundation in the rearing of children. The only thing that is problematic with your suggestion is that children at least those that aren't even high school age do not have the philosophical background to decipher right and wrong (in relation to their mental comfort) to discern whether they can make a logical decision to either believe or not believe in religion. At least with a religious background there is a sense of "community" which is also presence in the absence where parents are not directly involved in the rearing of children.
     
  20. Hawkins

    Hawkins Well-Known Member

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    The same. I knee every night to find evidence to support any of my meals eaten, in order to believe that I truly ate anything.

    Secularism is the believe of evidence, no evidence of meals means nothing eaten ever. That's your religion.
     
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