Children should be permitted to make up their own minds about religion

[nPeace]

Both my husband and I were non believers by the time we married in 1969 when I was 19 and he was 22. Our first daughter arrived 10 months later, our birth family was completed by the time I was 26. (We later went on to adopt two boys with special educational needs, the younger one has Down's Syndrome.)

Although our children were of course aware of our attitude towards religion, we never tried to force them to take on our point of view. Both of us had the experience of having our fundamentalist parents faith forced down our throats as kids, which was not a pleasant experience! We explained to the children it was important that they made up their own minds about matters of faith. The three girls, as I have mentioned before, are Christians, they are moderate in their beliefs, not Biblical literalists, we are proud of them.

Anything being forced down someone's throat sounds cruel, but I have witnesses situations where health care providers used such measures to administer medicine, to a patient "in order to save a life".
Are you in agreement with forcing medicine on persons, who refuse it? I would certainly agree that seem cruel, and I certainly wouldn't like it to happen to anyone.

What exactly do you mean though, by

Both of us had the experience of having our fundamentalist parents faith forced down our throats as kids, which was not a pleasant experience!

How was their faith forced down your throat? Can you explain please?

 

[Skwim]

The quotation mark means it is a religion as it is a common belief,

So you're saying that all common beliefs are necessarily religions? I would hope not. And I reject your claim that secularism is commonly believed to be a religion.
As I pointed out, secularism is merely a position or stance. An "indifference to or rejection or exclusion of religion and religious considerations."
(Merriam Webster)

however it's not a religion in terms of organized religions.

It's not a religion in any kind of terms.

Painting secularism as a religion is nothing but a simpleminded ploy to put it on par with actual religions, something the courts have decided have no business being taught in public schools.

In three words: It's transparently stupid.

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[Vinayaka]

Yes, I think children should be allowed to make up their own minds. For 99% that will come anyway, at adulthood. But it's not that simple. Most learning is done by watching examples, and from experience, and generally that's their parents. So if their parents are of a faith, it is highly probably that most of the child's experience will be related to that faith. So it's less about direct teaching, and tryng to control it, and more about the experiences you give them. That all changes in the teens, as they can and will refuse to participate, unless there is an iron hand.

None of my own children are practicing Hindus, yet all are vegetarian. I guess that says the action of vegetarianism made more sense than ritual worship.

 

[Shantanu]

Both my husband and I were non believers by the time we married in 1969 when I was 19 and he was 22. Our first daughter arrived 10 months later, our birth family was completed by the time I was 26. (We later went on to adopt two boys with special educational needs, the younger one has Down's Syndrome.)

Although our children were of course aware of our attitude towards religion, we never tried to force them to take on our point of view. Both of us had the experience of having our fundamentalist parents faith forced down our throats as kids, which was not a pleasant experience! We explained to the children it was important that they made up their own minds about matters of faith. The three girls, as I have mentioned before, are Christians, they are moderate in their beliefs, not Biblical literalists, we are proud of them.

They have to get their knowledge from somewhere: parents are as good as any other source. Soon they will be influenced by what they learn at school and from friends. When they grow up they will learn science and history, join internet forums and so on. Education is something that parents should encourage but more important than that are life skills to survive in a difficult world.

 

[exchemist]

Both my husband and I were non believers by the time we married in 1969 when I was 19 and he was 22. Our first daughter arrived 10 months later, our birth family was completed by the time I was 26. (We later went on to adopt two boys with special educational needs, the younger one has Down's Syndrome.)

Although our children were of course aware of our attitude towards religion, we never tried to force them to take on our point of view. Both of us had the experience of having our fundamentalist parents faith forced down our throats as kids, which was not a pleasant experience! We explained to the children it was important that they made up their own minds about matters of faith. The three girls, as I have mentioned before, are Christians, they are moderate in their beliefs, not Biblical literalists, we are proud of them.

Interesting. My experience is not entirely dissimilar. My wife and I were both brought up Catholic but were not strong believers and did not go to mass - until our son arrived. We then had a discussion about whether to bring him up with the Catholic faith or without it. And we decided to bring him up with it, largely on cultural and aesthetic grounds.

We reasoned that it would be very hard for him to get a real idea of what religion was like from the outside (there are so many off-putting stereotypes), whereas if he was brought up with it, he could always decide to leave it and then he would at least have had the benefit of understanding the culture of Europe (the history, the art, the music, the literature, the buildings), all of which is suffused with Christianity. We were fairly insistent he should follow it through to confirmation, but then, having got his credentials as it were, we would take a more relaxed attitude according to what he thought.

He is now 15 and says he does not really believe in God any more, which is fair enough. We talk about it openly and I admit to him my own doubts about doctrine - my wife having died in the meantime. He has chosen Theology and Philosophy as one of his optional subjects at school and is quite good at it. So he is a thoughtful sceptic, rather than dismissively scornful. But he is also still friends with people from the church and with the priests - he has been an altar server, so understands a bit of the symbolism of the ritual and so on and has got to know them.

I feel convinced this will stand him in good stead. He can leave it alone, or he may possibly return to it at some later stage in his life. If he wants to do that, he can do so with ease, as he knows the ropes and won't feel there is some great hurdle to overcome. And even if not, he will understand what is depicted in a mediaeval painting, or what a Bach cantata or a Tallis motet is about, and will be able to recognise a biblical reference in a c.19 novel or a Shakespeare play.

 

[nPeace]

Good for you. Although I only see this working for parents who are nonbelievers. All others believe they have an obligation to bring up their children in what they have come to conclude is the "truth."

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Really Skwim?
https://borgenproject.org/10-facts-child-soldiers/
Children in the military - Wikipedia
https://irct.org/assets/uploads/1018_8185_2009-2_132-136.pdf

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Anything being forced down someone's throat sounds cruel, but I have witnesses situations where health care providers used such measures to administer medicine, to a patient "in order to save a life".
Are you in agreement with forcing medicine on persons, who refuse it? I would certainly agree that seem cruel, and I certainly wouldn't like it to happen to anyone.

What exactly do you mean though, by
How was their faith forced down your throat? Can you explain please?

What are you talking about? People have the right to refuse medical treatment in the United States.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Both my husband and I were non believers by the time we married in 1969 when I was 19 and he was 22. Our first daughter arrived 10 months later, our birth family was completed by the time I was 26. (We later went on to adopt two boys with special educational needs, the younger one has Down's Syndrome.)

Although our children were of course aware of our attitude towards religion, we never tried to force them to take on our point of view. Both of us had the experience of having our fundamentalist parents faith forced down our throats as kids, which was not a pleasant experience! We explained to the children it was important that they made up their own minds about matters of faith. The three girls, as I have mentioned before, are Christians, they are moderate in their beliefs, not Biblical literalists, we are proud of them.

At the same time education is needed. Thus a necessary part of education is giving a child a strong education in matters of spiritual well being. That would include but not limited to an overview of values, the worlds religions and worlds cultures.

Regards Tony

 

[Shad]

Of course everything starts with an assumption. You don't get away from this no matter which way you turn. You have to assume that the reality you experience is "real." It's all you've got to stand on.

That is an axiom not merely an assumption. Still the point overall is true. We all operate (live) with a set of axioms most of humanity shares. Such as I am not a brain in a jar, you are not an npc of a simulation, etc.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Both my husband and I were non believers by the time we married in 1969 when I was 19 and he was 22. Our first daughter arrived 10 months later, our birth family was completed by the time I was 26. (We later went on to adopt two boys with special educational needs, the younger one has Down's Syndrome.)

Although our children were of course aware of our attitude towards religion, we never tried to force them to take on our point of view. Both of us had the experience of having our fundamentalist parents faith forced down our throats as kids, which was not a pleasant experience! We explained to the children it was important that they made up their own minds about matters of faith. The three girls, as I have mentioned before, are Christians, they are moderate in their beliefs, not Biblical literalists, we are proud of them.

It sounds like you have a great family! Good for you!

Best wishes.

 

[HonestJoe]

Secularism itself is a "religion". Everything starts with an assumption. Our secular education has indoctrinate us with the religious assumption that "spirituality doesn't exist" ever since our childhood. In contrary, religious influence is a minimal in comparing to our systematic secular education indoctrination since everyone's childhood, to an extent that we don't actually have a true choice!

The worst part here is, you don't have the same awareness about such an indoctrination as you do with a religion.

I don't know what you think you're describing here but it isn't secularism. Secularism is a socio-political position, not a theistic one, about equal treatment regardless of religious beliefs and opinions. Many religious people are secular (even if they don't realise it). "Secular education" doesn't make any kind of assumption or assertion about "spirituality" at all.

 

[nPeace]

What are you talking about? People have the right to refuse medical treatment in the United States.

What are you talking about?

 

[LuisDantas]

Secularism itself is a "religion".

Nope. It definitely is not a religion, by any reasonable definition of that word.

 

[LuisDantas]

At some stage children get around to making up their own mind, whatevr their parent chose for them..
Unfortunately they often act to please their parents, whilst holding quite different beliefs.

And some of those imposed beliefs can be downright nasty. I have seen it happen far too often.

Even when they are resisted, the atmosphere of oppression can be terrible.

Parents should never presume to have the power to decide their children's beliefs. Or anyone's really.

 

[LuisDantas]

None of my own children are practicing Hindus, yet all are vegetarian. I guess that says the action of vegetarianism made more sense than ritual worship.

There is probably a bit more at work than just that.

One of the reasons why people seek religions to fulfill and realize what is not already with them. I trust that your children acquired a fair degree of awareness of Hindu beliefs from your example.

Of course, Hinduism is a lot less about belief as such than the Abrahamics.

 

[Firemorphic]

Children shouldn't have a religion forced upon them (heck, they don't start to intellectually understand stuff till their teens) but they should be exposed to it and shouldn't be denied the right to it as they grow up. It seems on either side there is people screaming "I'm your parent and I am right" whether it comes from a secular or religious parent.
Certainly when it comes to me personally, when I settle down to have a child and it grows up, I will be positively exposing them to a wide variety of religious/spiritual and secular thought. They will know that their father and mother are strong Muslims (in the case of me and my partner) but at the same time, they will know their parents have provided them with a smorgasbord (and library of religious and secular literature) to take from and make up their own minds.

 

[Twilight Hue]

At some stage children get around to making up their own mind, whatevr their parent chose for them..
Unfortunately they often act to please their parents, whilst holding quite different beliefs.

I remember Jesus Camp run by Becky Fischer and discovered that not all the children , who are now adults remained Christian. Unfortunately, in reading about their experiences then to now, you can still see the type of damage that spiritual indoctrination does to people when it comes to the essential skills needed and required for critical and speculative examination and critique.

Still, it's good to see some later questioning what they have been taught in spite of those remaining whom lost the ability to question and examine with scrutiny.

 

[Vinayaka]

There is probably a bit more at work than just that.

One of the reasons why people seek religions to fulfill and realize what is not already with them. I trust that your children acquired a fair degree of awareness of Hindu beliefs from your example.

Vegetarianism is accepted in western society and is essentially invisible whereas some of the other stuff would be far less accepted, and far more visible.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Secularism itself is a "religion". Everything starts with an assumption. Our secular education has indoctrinate us with the religious assumption that "spirituality doesn't exist" ever since our childhood.

Have you ever been in a public school system? We're still going to court to keep Christian mythos out of the science cirriculum. And if this "indoctrination" is so widespread and strong, why is 70-some percent of America Christian, with the remaining population being mostly theist of some sort?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I remember Jesus Camp run by Becky Fischer and discovered that not all the children , who are now adults remained Christian. Unfortunately, in reading about their experiences then to now, you can still see the type of damage that spiritual indoctrination does to people when it comes to the essential skills needed and required for critical and speculative examination and critique.

Any sources? It would be interesting to see how those kids turned out.