Child marriages - Does the Quran promote it?

[sooda]

I believe that the marriage was likely normal according to the culture of the day. A marriage occurred in Yemen a few years ago, where the bride was 9 years old. She subsequently died. I do not know if she died in childbirth? In many places in the Middle East a woman's life is not worth much.

In India, when a man died, his wife was supposed to burn on his funeral pyre. I believe that was called Sucee? There was a similar custom with the Vikings but I do not know the details.

I was reading a Woman's Journal from American Colonial times when a girl of 12 years old, was sold by her indentured parents to another farmer for a Cow. He later sold her baby to another farmer. I forget what the price was.

I'm not going to research this, but In certain states in America marriage can happen as young as 14 with a Judge's consent.

Did you read the Arab newspapers about the death of the child bride... pure outrage.

 

[Earthtank]

Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage - muslim.org
https://muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm
Hence there is not the least doubt that Aisha was at least nine or ten years of age at the time of betrothal, and fourteen or fifteen years at the time of marriage.”

continue reading at the link

Your reply proves you do NOT understand what i said. Try reading, understanding then replying next time.

 

[sooda]

A Muslim historical text called:
Bukhari, Book of Qualities of the Ansar, chapter: ‘The Holy Prophet’s marriage with Aisha, and his coming to Madina and the consummation of marriage with her’.

You will find it quoted on this Muslim website:
Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage

Bukhari was from Persia 200 years AFTER the death of Muhammed



“A great misconception prevails as to the age at which Aisha was taken in marriage by the Prophet. Ibn Sa‘d has stated in the Tabaqat that when Abu Bakr [father of Aisha] was approached on behalf of the Holy Prophet, he replied that the girl had already been betrothed to Jubair, and that he would have to settle the matter first with him. This shows that Aisha must have been approaching majority at the time. Again, the Isaba, speaking of the Prophet’s daughter Fatima, says that she was born five years before the Call and was about five years older than Aisha. This shows that Aisha must have been about ten years at the time of her betrothal to the Prophet, and not six years as she is generally supposed to be. This is further borne out by the fact that Aisha herself is reported to have stated that when the chapter [of the Holy Quran] entitled The Moon, the fifty-fourth chapter, was revealed, she was a girl playing about and remembered certain verses then revealed. Now the fifty-fourth chapter was undoubtedly revealed before the sixth year of the Call. All these considerations point to but one conclusion, viz., that Aisha could not have been less than ten years of age at the time of her nikah, which was virtually only a betrothal. And there is one report in the Tabaqat that Aisha was nine years of age at the time of nikah. Again it is a fact admitted on all hands that the nikah of Aisha took place in the tenth year of the Call in the month of Shawwal, while there is also preponderance of evidence as to the consummation of her marriage taking place in the second year of Hijra in the same month, which shows that full five years had elapsed between the nikah and the consummation. Hence there is not the least doubt that Aisha was at least nine or ten years of age at the time of betrothal, and fourteen or fifteen years at the time of marriage.” [4] (Bolding is mine.)

To facilitate understanding dates of these events, please note that it was in the tenth year of the Call, i.e. the tenth year after the Holy Prophet Muhammad received his calling from God to his mission of prophethood, that his wife Khadija passed away, and the approach was made to Abu Bakr for the hand of his daughter Aisha.

The hijra or emigration of the Holy Prophet to Madina took place three years later, and Aisha came to the household of the Holy Prophet in the second year after hijra. So if Aisha was born in the year of the Call, she would be ten years old at the time of the nikah and fifteen years old at the time of the consummation of the marriage.

 

[sooda]

Your reply proves you do NOT understand what i said. Try reading, understanding then replying next time.

This would make Asma 28 years of age in 1 A.H., the year of the Hijra, thus making Aisha 18 years old in 1 A.H. So Aisha would be 19 years old at the time of the consummation of her marriage, and 14 or 15 years old at the time of her nikah. It would place her year of birth at four or five years before the Call.

3. The same statement is made by the famous classical commentator of the Holy Quran, Ibn Kathir, in his book Al-bidayya wal-nihaya:

“Asma died in 73 A.H. at the age of one hundred years. She was ten years older than her sister Aisha.” [7]

https://muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm

 

[Ellen Brown]

Did you read the Arab newspapers about the death of the child bride... pure outrage.

Yes, in BBC, Gulfnews, and even Arabnews, people were quite upset. I would not blame Islam for it, but simply tribal stupidity.

 

[sooda]

Yes, in BBC, Gulfnews, and even Arabnews, people were quite upset. I would not blame Islam for it, but simply tribal stupidity.

Yep... Once in a while there is one of these child marriages and the newspapers and letters to the editors go haywire.

The age of marriage for women has gone from 17 to 22-23 in the past 25 years because more women are going to university.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Yep... Once in a while there is one of these child marriages and the newspapers and letters to the editors go haywire.

The age of marriage for women has gone from 17 to 22-23 in the past 25 years because more women are going to university.

The "Mark" I've noticed in American female converts to Islam is low self image.

As to Women College Students from other countries in America, many seem to be Computer, or Nursing Majors. I met one who is becoming a Doctor of Medicine.

I've met lots of expat. Muslim College students who came to America to go to College and hoped to stay here after. Sadly, the provisions of their visas prohibited it.

Lewis and Clark, Portland State University, and University of Portland are very close. There are several other small 4 year Colleges in the City.

 

[sooda]

The "Mark" I've noticed in American female converts to Islam is low self image.

As to Women College Students from other countries in America, many seem to be Computer, or Nursing Majors. I met one who is becoming a Doctor of Medicine.

I've met lots of expat. Muslim College students who came to America to go to College and hoped to stay here after. Sadly, the provisions of their visas prohibited it.

Lewis and Clark, Portland State University, and University of Portland are very close. There are several other small 4 year Colleges in the City.

Saudi women are becoming engineers, doctors, architects .. pretty cool.. They have come a long way since 1961 when girls first went to school.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Saudi women are becoming engineers, doctors, architects .. pretty cool.. They have come a long way since 1961 when girls first went to school.

The Hell they face when they go back... I hope it gets better.

 

[sooda]

The Hell they face when they go back... I hope it gets better.

No .. I have spent time with many of them. Their lives aren't hell at all.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Genesis was borrowed from the canaanite and Babylonians. I'll post information about aisha again for you.

In the case of Genesis, we have original source documents showing that its myths appear in an earlier form in the culture of Sumer (not Canaan). Do not confuse Sumer with Babylon just because it is the same territory.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Fallacy of presentism. Look it up and educate yourself.

I did look it up. If you follow the thread, in my next post, I cited the hadith that gave this information, which I got from a Muslim website.

I also argued that if hypothetically the hadith were mistaken, the truth is that Muslims still *believe* it, and so the argument that this is where Muslim acceptance of the marrying of children comes from.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I believe that the marriage was likely normal according to the culture of the day.

And the overall culture in those days was the acceptance of child brides. Women have born the brunt of male misogyny and lack of concern for eons. Things have only begun changing in the last century or so, and we still have a ways to go.

A marriage occurred in Yemen a few years ago, where the bride was 9 years old. She subsequently died. I do not know if she died in childbirth? In many places in the Middle East a woman's life is not worth much.

How awful!!!! It wasn't too long ago that it was this way in the West as well. In the colony of Delaware, the age of consent was seven.

I'm not going to research this, but In certain states in America marriage can happen as young as 14 with a Judge's consent.

Yes, we still have a problem with the issue of child brides. It is ridiculous to say that a girl doesn't have the maturity to consent to sex with an adult, but she has the maturity to consent to marriage (a much more serious issue). The movement to outlaw child brides has begun, but it has a long, long ways to go, as the existence of such in the West shows. In my opinion, the best solution for pregnant teens and their babies is not marriage or single motherhood, but adoption (even though it is painful).

 

[sooda]

In the case of Genesis, we have original source documents showing that its myths appear in an earlier form in the culture of Sumer (not Canaan). Do not confuse Sumer with Babylon just because it is the same territory.

They borrowed many of their stories from the north coast Canaanites.

Quartz Hill School of Theology

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Bukhari was from Persia 200 years AFTER the death of Muhammed

It is still a historical original source document. You, on the other hand, have NO original source document that gives any evidence whatsoever of anything to the contrary. Instead, you quote a 20th century book giving a hypothesis.

You also have yet to deal with my argument that should the hadith be mistaken, Muslim BELIEF is in the hadith, and therefore sets the culture.
'

 

[IndigoChild5559]

They borrowed many of their stories from the north coast Canaanites.

Quartz Hill School of Theology

What is your original source document for this? Please provide an internet link so that I can look into it.

BTW, any such connection wouldn't change my views. I've already acknowledged that the Genesis myths had been passed down from earlier versions from Sumer.

 

[Milton Platt]

Child marriage in Niger is a cultural issue, not an Islamic one

"Early and forced marriage is a contentious subject in Niger. The country has signed up to international treaties that set a minimum age of marriage of 18. However, the legal age of marriage is 15 for girls and 18 for boys. There have been ongoing discussions in parliament to make sure that the national law respects the international treaties, but this has not yet happened.

Even if the law changes, it is unlikely that child marriage will stop overnight. It is entrenched in the culture in Niger. I want to be clear on this: this is not an Islamic issue, but a cultural issue."

Source:Child marriage in Niger is a cultural issue, not an Islamic one

Apparently not all of Islam agrees with you:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...e3-a837-8835df6c12c4_story.html?noredirect=on

 

[Ellen Brown]

Apparently not all of Islam agrees with you:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...e3-a837-8835df6c12c4_story.html?noredirect=on

You did pick one of the most backward Islamic states.

 

[firedragon]

I believe it is true because an original source document of history states so. That is how history is constructed.

And honestly, if it is accepted by Muslims (as well as scholars) despite its scandal, you should sit up and take note.

Well. You dont know the documents then. Thats why you believe these whatever stories you picked up because you just "like it".

Do you believe them because they are historical fact? Or do you believe them because you like it?

If you believe they are historical fact, can you give reasons why they are historical fact (Not that you just love the person who told the story). Why is it 100% historical fact? Whats the Sanad. Why is it superior to Atthabari, and other sources that easily prove Aisha was at least 18 or 19? Why do you believe this, but not that?

So what are your evidences and scientific explanations?

 

[Milton Platt]

You did pick one of the most backward Islamic states.

Just picked the first one in the Google search. Or maybe it was the second...don't remember. The poster said it wasn't an islamic issue......the article indicates otherwise. Why does it matter which state it is? Are you going to say that they aren't "real Muslims"?