Book of Revelation, what is it? Good, or bad? [Vote

[wizanda]

Some of us think the tribulation was over with the fall of Masada..

The Tribulation implies certain timelines; so for example Daniel 12 where Michael comes is at the End of Time...

The Tribulation is the destruction of planet earth by world war, if we look at the bowls and trumpets in Revelation, it is a countdown of nuclear holocaust in reverse order from 6.

The 7th seal, bowl, and trumpet is the end of humanity, and the start of an age of enlightenment with only the saints.

Can understand where the preterist view comes from; yet it is missing tons of the qualifying prophetic structure.

In my opinion.

 

[Forever_Catholic]

It is an immensely valuable book of scripture and has excellent references for backing up Catholic arguments in religious debates (provided that the person being debated believes the Bible).

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Book of Revelation is that interesting book that uses alot of symbolism, and is quite involved.
Opinions?

I find with Revelation it has corresponding cross-reference passages to other Bible books especially Daniel.
Such passages helps us to understand the Revelation meaning the 'revealing' about a good future to come.
I also find that since we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come, then the good reason we are to invite Jesus to come is found in the words at Revelation 22:2.
There we read about the return of the Genesis ' tree of life ' for the ' healing ' of earth's nations.
This would be in fullfillment to God's promise to father Abraham that ALL families of earth will be blessed,
and ALL nations of earth will be blessed. Blessed with the benefit of ' healing ' for earth's nations.
- Genesis 12:3; Genesis 18:18; Genesis 22:18, and 'healing' as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Tribulation implies certain timelines; so for example Daniel 12 where Michael comes is at the End of Time...
The Tribulation is the destruction of planet earth by world war, if we look at the bowls and trumpets in Revelation, it is a countdown of nuclear holocaust in reverse order from 6.
In my opinion.

To me it is more like the End of Time of ALL Badness on Earth.
Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will be the one who will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
As we can read about the great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 there are great many survivors as per Revelation 7:9.
These survivors will be the figurative humble people as described at Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.

Mankind left on his own could possible bring destruction by men's wars but God will Not let that happen.
Please notice that Psalms 46:9 reassures us that God will cause wars to cease all over the Earth.
Then, Jesus will have earthly subjects. Psalms 72:8 gives us a preview of how the coming millennial rule by Christ Jesus will relieve distressed mankind as per Psalms 72:12-14.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I think it's "good" in its context, which was, imo, to tell the fledgling Church "Don't worry, God's got your back and death is not an end".

' death is not an end ' came to pass in the year 70 when the Roman armies destroyed unfaithful Jerusalem.
Those who heeded Jesus warning in the year 66 to flee to Pella left Jerusalem and their lives were spared.
' death is not an end ' for those of Revelation 7:14 because they survive the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9.
So, as those Christians in the year 66 did Not die, those of the great multitude of Revelation 7:9 will also Not die.
They can remain alive and continue to live on Earth right into calendar Day One of Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth for a thousand years when there will be ' healing' for earth's nations as per Revelation 22:2.

 

[Desert Snake]

Well, it was written for people in the first century.. specifically to the seven churches..

Clearly has more meaning , than that.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well, yeah.. Apocalyptic literature was very popular for about 300 years. Are you familiar with Eusebius?
Eusebius: "The members of the Jerusalem church by means of an oracle, given by revelation to acceptable persons there, were ordered to leave the city before the war began and settle in a town in Peraea called Pella." Book III, 5:4

I find the 'acceptable person' (before the years 66-70) was Jesus himself giving the words of Luke 19:43-44.
When the Roman armies surrounded un-faithful Jerusalem in the year 66 that was the signal to the Christians living in un-faithful Jerusalem to flee to Pella. Those staying in un-failthful Jerusalem thought it of no account to leave.
Christians who heeded Jesus words they were spared alive at that 1st-century time frame.

 

[sooda]

The Tribulation implies certain timelines; so for example Daniel 12 where Michael comes is at the End of Time...

The Tribulation is the destruction of planet earth by world war, if we look at the bowls and trumpets in Revelation, it is a countdown of nuclear holocaust in reverse order from 6.

The 7th seal, bowl, and trumpet is the end of humanity, and the start of an age of enlightenment with only the saints.

Can understand where the preterist view comes from; yet it is missing tons of the qualifying prophetic structure.

In my opinion.

Jesus told them that when the saw the abomination of desolation they should avoid the tribulation and flee to the mountains.. Which they did.. They went to Pella in Jordan. It helps to look up what the abomination of desolation was.

There were schools for prophets in Israel and they were like today's news analysts... not fortune tellers.. In fact most prophesy was after the fact. Pointedly, a keen observer could predict the outcome.. They were like the conscience of the people.

For instance.. Jesus could predict with some certainty that if the Jewish factions continued fighting each other and the Romans it would end badly with the destruction of the Temple and the world as they knew it.

 

[Desert Snake]

Jesus told them that when the saw the abomination of desolation they should avoid the tribulation and flee to the mountains.. Which they did.. They went to Pella in Jordan. It helps to look up what the abomination of desolation was.

There were schools for prophets in Israel and they were like today's news analysts... not fortune tellers.. In fact most prophesy was after the fact. Pointedly, a keen observer could predict the outcome.. They were like the conscience of the people.

For instance.. Jesus could predict with some certainty that if the Jewish factions continued fighting each other and the Romans it would end badly with the destruction of the Temple and the world as they knew it.

Uh...no.

 

[sooda]

Clearly has more meaning , than that.

I don't think so.. I think it is pretty straight forward. By the time John of Patmos wrote the Revelation letter the temple had been destroyed, Paul was dead and the Jews had been thru a horrible ordeal of war, disease, famine and death. It was the end of Temple Judaism and the end of their world.

John of Patmos wrote to the 7 congregations that Paul had founded years earlier.. around 50 AD.. Five of them had apparently strayed or whatever you want to call it.

Its not voodoo.. Its fairly rational stuff.

 

[sooda]

Uh...no.

Uh yes.. These were human beings.. You need to study and rethink your definition of "prophet".

 

[sooda]

I find the 'acceptable person' (before the years 66-70) was Jesus himself giving the words of Luke 19:43-44.
When the Roman armies surrounded un-faithful Jerusalem in the year 66 that was the signal to the Christians living in un-faithful Jerusalem to flee to Pella. Those staying in un-failthful Jerusalem thought it of no account to leave.
Christians who heeded Jesus words they were spared alive at that 1st-century time frame.

Yes. yes.. You got it.. All you had to do to escape the tribulation was "flee to the mountains"..

Here's a clue.

Revelation 1:9 I, John, your brother and partner in the …

I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation, kingdom, and endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of God's word and the testimony about Jesus.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I do understand it .. Its helps to study the first century to get a grip on most if not all of the symbolism they would have understood. Jesus said his followers could avoid the tribulation by fleeing to the mountains. They did .. They went to Pella in Jordan.

That's not the tribulation that Christ Jesus is referring to in the book of Revelation.

As for Jesus said to his followers could avoid the tribulation by fleeing to the mountains, that was to Jews of Israel back then.
But for the Tribulation thats coming upon the whole world, Which Christ Jesus foretold in Revelation, the whole world is of right now is walking into the Tribulation and don't even know it.

 

[David T]

Hah, it clears, you wrote it, right?

It says it at the end don't interpret.

 

[wizanda]

Jesus told them that when the saw the abomination of desolation they should avoid the tribulation and flee to the mountains.

Though you're correct on identifying one timeline being discussed is the 2nd temple destruction; yet on not studying all the related data in the Tanakh, you've missed there are additional factors still to occur... Such as the sun and moon darkened, giant earthquake, all nations of the world against Israel, etc.

not fortune tellers

Isaiah foretold Yeshua by name 700 years in the future (Isaiah 52:10, Isaiah 12:2), and Zechariah son of Berechiah by name 500 years (Isaiah 8:2).

Unfortunately Rabbinic Judaism reads the Bible like you're doing, and according to prophecy they're cut off (Zechariah 11, Deuteronomy 28), and blinded to understanding it (Zechariah 12:4, Deuteronomy 28:28-29).

Jesus could predict with some certainty that if the Jewish factions continued fighting each other and the Romans it would end badly with the destruction of the Temple and the world as they knew it.

We could predict it, as the Tanakh stated it all in advanced... It is a very limited view if this is all we're aware of, thus maybe study more.

In my opinion.

 

[wizanda]

These survivors will be the figurative humble people

Right so here is the decision: so far you've argued with me each time, and told the person with the New Name of Christ he is wrong...

So we've then got to decide can we educate mankind, if people stand against us, when we're trying to lead them in the right direction?

Please notice that Psalms 46:9 reassures us that God will cause wars to cease all over the Earth.

Psalms 46:6-8 says he melts the reality as prophesied elsewhere, and then after we have peace in an age of enlightenment.

In my opinion.

 

[WalterTrull]

It says it at the end don't interpret.

My bad.

 

[74x12]

Book of Revelation is that interesting book that uses alot of symbolism, and is quite involved.



Opinions?

It's very good. Some people don't like it because they don't understand it. But it's still from God. People should study the parts they do understand. Not all of Revelation is hard to understand.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Consider this:

Revelation 1:9 I, John, your brother and partner in the …

I, John, your brother and partner in the tribulation, kingdom, and endurance that are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of God's word and the testimony about Jesus. International Standard Version I am John, your brother and partner in the oppression, kingdom, and patience that comes because of Jesus.

Why do you want me to consider this? I don't understand your point.

 

[sooda]

Why do you want me to consider this? I don't understand your point.

By 90 AD the tribulation was in the past. It ended when Masada fell.