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Birtherism 2.0: The Totally-Not-Racist Party Strikes Again

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Left Coast, Aug 13, 2020.

  1. Left Coast

    Left Coast Plant-Based Plebeian
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    The newest talking point among many on the Right is that Kamala Harris is not constitutionally eligible to be Vice President because her parents were immigrants.

    Trump Encourages Racist Conspiracy Theory About Kamala Harris

    This line of attack was reiterated by...who else? Trump.

    You'll recall, of course, that the entire reason Trump became an ascendant figure in right wing politics is because he popularized the falsehood during the Obama years that our first black President was illegitimate because he wasn't born in America.

    Now, we have a black female VP nominee just announced, and where does the Right go? Right back to the same racist tropes they're so familiar with. We all know this wouldn't be a line of attack if she were white. So let's drop the pretense that this is anything but racial. These are the same folks who thought "very fine people" were on both sides of the protests in Charleston.

    Trump, in my view, is not the central problem in the country today. Voting him out of office won't end the legacy he has legitimized in office. He is a symptom of a much more deep-rooted disease in the Republican Party.

    (But voting him out is a start. Let's do it. ;))
     
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  2. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    At least he is predictable. However, it sure is getting old. It was old the first time, honestly.
     
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  3. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    If she was born in the US then she is a citizen.
     
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  4. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Let's drop the pretense that this has anything to do with race.
    "Stupid" or "dishonest" would be an accurate description of
    Trump's musings about her eligibility.
     
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  5. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    And not just any kind of citizen...the
    kind of citizen who can be Prez.
     
  6. Left Coast

    Left Coast Plant-Based Plebeian
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    Oh give me a break, it's obviously racial. :rolleyes: Mark Levin was literally saying today she's not allowed to call herself black. Let's not pretend the movement that denies the existence of systemic racism, won't say Black Lives Matter, is convinced the first black President was born in Kenya, defends the Confederacy, tells people of color in Congress to "go back to their country," and has all of 5 black supporters nationwide isn't playing a racial angle here. Heads in the sand help no one.
     
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  7. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    I call BS. Birtherism was about Obama and Harris, neither of them are white. If you can find another example of birtherism about a white person from the right bring it to the table.
     
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  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    How does race enter into questioning her eligibility to
    be President because of her parents being immigrants?
    This is a different claim by a different person.
    Let's not pretend that Trump's boneheaded questioning of her
    eligibility is based upon BLM, Obama's birthplace, the Confederacy,
    etc, etc. Addressing what Trump actually said....how is it "racist"?
     
  9. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    So do I.
    You guys are overly eager to cry "Racism!".
    If it's at all possible, then you claim it as gospel truth.
    You're ignoring what Trump actually said, & instead
    invoking Obama.

    Ya know....I've been thru this before. A poster called
    me racist because I criticized some of Obama's policies.
    So my eyes roll when you trot out this standard line
    without adequate justification.
    My memory is much better than yours.
    Ref....
    A Hint of New Life to a McCain Birth Issue
    Is John McCain a natural-born citizen of the U.S.?

    Edit: Some more white guys....
    Ted Cruz (challenged by Trump)
    Chester Arthur
    Charles Hughes
    Barry Goldwater
    George Romney
     
    #9 Revoltingest, Aug 14, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
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  10. Left Coast

    Left Coast Plant-Based Plebeian
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    She's black, Rev. They did it to the last/ only black President we've had. Now they're doing it to her. Pretty obvious.

    A popular right wing pundit, whose thought has been reproduced right here on RF.

    Patterns are relevant. You can rationalize away any one act. Fool me once, as they say. If you read my OP, I said the problem is larger than Trump. He's a symptom. He's part of a pattern. So yes these things are really, painfully obviously connected, as I've now explained to you. White identity politics have purchase on the Right. All these data points coincide with that underlying point.
     
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  11. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    What of challenges to John McCain for having been born in Panama?
    (He was white.)
    The article is about what Trump said.
    The issue was her parents being immigrants,
    who can be any race.
    Trump also challenged Ted Cruz's eligibility.
    (He's white too....& born in Canuckistan.)
    The argument of obviousness is unconvincing.
    How does John McCain fit into your pattern
    of only black candidates being challenged?

    Would you say that any eligibility challenge to
    a candidate is racist if the candidate is black,
    but isn't racist if the candidate is white?

    There've been other challenges...
    Chester Arthur
    Charles Hughes
    Barry Goldwater
    George Romney

    If one focuses upon all candidates, & not just the
    black ones, a larger pattern emerges....
    Candidates & parties challenge their foes any
    time there's a possibility to disqualify them.
    It's going to continue because the Constitution
    is vague on what it is to be "natural born".
     
    #11 Revoltingest, Aug 14, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
  12. Left Coast

    Left Coast Plant-Based Plebeian
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    And "you guys" (I thought you weren't into generalizations?) are eager to pretend racism doesn't exist, even when it's right in front of you.

    As have I. Not my first rodeo.

    I've literally watched video in which a literal, card-carrying KKK member said he's not a racist.

    I didn't do that, and neither did @sun rise. So my eyes roll when, yet again, you predictably come along and fail to admit the obvious, despite the multiple data points right in front of you.
     
  13. Left Coast

    Left Coast Plant-Based Plebeian
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    Who promoted that theory, and how much traction did their idea get? In the case of birtherism, the guy who most famously promoted it became the GOP nominee, then the President.

    I'll wait.

    My OP was about more than what Trump said. Trump merely repeated what he heard in RW media, as he always does.

    Yet not many British ex-pats get challenged this way. Hmmm...pure coincidence, I'm sure.

    See above.
     
  14. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    This is one generalization wherein you fit.
    You're claiming racism, but without good reason.

    And to claim that I deny the existence of racism is specious.
    What I'm doing here is debunking your claim.
    There is racism, but not everything is racist.
    This doesn't support your claim that what Trump said is racist.
    Nor does it support your claim that I deny that racism exists,
    or that I am a racist because I disagreed with Obama.
    I'm describing the climate wherein there's a predilection
    to call anyone a "racist" without reasonable basis.

    About "predictability"....
    I knew that you'd stick to your guns, despite a lack of
    evidence, by ignoring what Trump actually said, & by
    ignoring my examples of birtherism being applied to
    white candidates even more often than to black ones.
     
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  15. Mr Spinkles

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    Yes, guys, Trump is not racist, okay?

    Sure, he says things that a racist would say.

    But, like everything else about him - from his spray tan to his fake university - it’s a cheap substitute for the real thing.

    Trump is like the Sweet’N Low of racism. He’s the “I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter” of racism.

    Huge difference, guys.

    Trump would never jump to hasty conclusions about other people so let’s do him the same courtesy.

    I mean, if every time Donald Trump assumes an American of color is not truly American we assume he’s being racist, what have we become?
     
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  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    I provided links.
    It got similar traction to the other challenges,
    ie, none prevented anyone from running for
    President or becoming one. McCain ran.
    Obama ran & won. Harris is running.

    Are your questions designed to dismiss the
    several white candidates whose eligibility
    was challenged?
    You're still ignoring what he said, & the fact that he also
    challenged Ted Cruz. You say birtherism is only about
    black candidates, but this is utterly wrong, as I've shown.
    Did you happen to read the white candidates I listed?
    They too were challenged for eligibility.
     
  17. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    I've never said he's not racist.
    But you're not addressing what he said to inspire
    the NY times & posters here to claim racism.
    This doesn't make what he said racist.
    Again, this is hyperbole...not a reasoned argument that what he said is racist.
    I get that you dislike Trump. He has many faults.
    But you're just complaining about him instead of
    supporting the contention that what he said is racist.

    What he said is worthy of criticism. It was ridiculous.
    It bespeaks ignorance of the Constitution, & disinterest in
    thinking before speaking. This is a severe problem.
    Why make it about something dubious?
    You're ignoring the big & very real problem of his hebetude,
    thoughtlessness, & aggressive ignorance of governance.
     
    #17 Revoltingest, Aug 14, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2020
  18. Left Coast

    Left Coast Plant-Based Plebeian
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    Other than, you know, the reasons I listed and you hand-waved away.

    You havent so far. But keep trying! Eventually you'll get it, I'm sure.

    I didnt claim it did. Are you done misinterpreting me now?

    What it demonstrates is that it is possible to be racist, flagrantly racist, and be in denial.

    I don't think you deny that all racism everywhere exists. I think you deny it in ways where it counts.

    I didn't claim that either. Man, keep it going Rev! All these amazing straw men you're knocking down, look at you, impressive sir!

    Other than, you know, the evidence I cited.

    I didn't do that.

    You edited that at the end, after I'd replied. Those examples are quite old, from a time when there were many fewer black people in positions of power or elected office. So obviously, not terribly relevant to the current political context.

    You, on the other hand, ignored the obviously relevant question I asked about McCain, the most recent example.
     
  19. Left Coast

    Left Coast Plant-Based Plebeian
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    The people who promoted McCain not being eligible didnt run for President. Nor did Obama promote that idea. Nor did any Democratic congresspeople even, that I recall.

    Wanna try again?

    Asked and answered. Next excuse?

    What are you talking about? I'm not ignoring it at all. I literally started the thread about it. Try again.

    Strawman yet again. I didnt say that. I said it forms part of the constellation of racist, white identity politics tactics and opinions that many on the right endorse, including Trump.
     
  20. Mr Spinkles

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    You’ve never said he’s not racist? That’s a great start, Revolt. Proud of you bud.

    Question: do you think Trump has ever said anything racist?
     
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