Birtherism 2.0: The Totally-Not-Racist Party Strikes Again

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh give me a break, it's obviously racial. Mark Levin was literally saying today she's not allowed to call herself black. Let's not pretend the movement that denies the existence of systemic racism, won't say Black Lives Matter, is convinced the first black President was born in Kenya, defends the Confederacy, tells people of color in Congress to "go back to their country," and has all of 5 black supporters nationwide isn't playing a racial angle here. Heads in the sand help no one.

No doubts. But even Ted Cruz has been in Trump's Birther/citizenship sights. So it's not accurate to say he wouldn't have done this had Harris been white.

 

[Revoltingest]

Other than, you know, the reasons I listed and you hand-waved away.

You cited only a pattern that you see.
But to claim with certainty that what can fit into a pattern
is therefore part of the pattern is inadequate. Moreover,
I pointed out the white candidates subject to birtherism.
Do you deny they exist?

You havent so far. But keep trying! Eventually you'll get it, I'm sure.

Your pattern is imagined because you look only at black
candidates, & entirely ignore the white ones.

I didnt claim it did. Are you done misinterpreting me now?

Are you now claiming that what Trump said is not racist?

What it demonstrates is that it is possible to be racist, flagrantly racist, and be in denial.

OK.

I don't think you deny that all racism everywhere exists. I think you deny it in ways where it counts.

Well, I think you're too eager to see it.

I didn't claim that either. Man, keep it going Rev! All these amazing straw men you're knocking down, look at you, impressive sir!

I'm doing my best to infer your intent.

Other than, you know, the evidence I cited.

Your evidence is weak, & ignores data,
eg, birtherism applied to white candidates.

I didn't do that.

We'll agree to disagree about that.

You edited that at the end, after I'd replied. Those examples are quite old, from a time when there were many fewer black people in positions of power or elected office. So obviously, not terribly relevant to the current political context.

You think that Ted Cruz is a "quite old" example?
It is bogus to rule out every white candidate
subject to birtherism.

You, on the other hand, ignored the obviously relevant question I asked about McCain, the most recent example.

You dismissed his having been subjected to birtherism
by asking questions. I answered them.

 

[Revoltingest]

You’ve never said he’s not racist? That’s a great start, Revolt. Proud of you bud.

OK...you're out of this discussion. It's after 2am, &
I'm having enuf difficulty keeping up with LC's posts,
Your irrelevant bickering is uninteresting.

 

[sun rise]

No doubts. But even Ted Cruz has been in Trump's Birther/citizenship sights. So it's not accurate to say he wouldn't have done this had Harris been white.

Good points. Trump throws all kinds of crap and we should keep track of the color of the crap so we don't call dark brown crap light brown crap. See, color matters.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

OK...you're out of this discussion. It's after 2am, &
I'm having enuf difficulty keeping up with LC's posts,
Your irrelevant bickering is uninteresting.

Speaking of irrelevant bickering that’s uninteresting ... you deny that Trump’s birtherism has “anything to do its race”, yet you “never said he’s not racist”.

Let that sink in.

Speaking for myself, I asked if Trump has ever said anything racist. That’s relevant here, because I’m a fan of Occam’s Razor. If racism is necessary to explain Trump’s past statements, and sufficient to explain his most recent statement, we should not multiply entities unnecessarily.

 

[Revoltingest]

Speaking of irrelevant bickering that’s uninteresting ... you deny that Trump’s birtherism has “anything to do its race”, yet you “never said he’s not racist”.

And now you're rephrasing what I've posted, changing the meaning.
If you want to converse with me, then be interesting instead of testy.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Speaking for myself, I asked if Trump has ever said anything racist. That’s relevant here, because I’m a fan of Occam’s Razor. If racism is necessary to explain Trump’s past statements, and sufficient to explain his most recent statement, we should not multiply entities unnecessarily.

That's just it. He has targeted white politicians over his birther crap. That alone is not what makes it racist. It's his typical vile and putrid self. It is xenophobic, it is prejudice, but we can't pretend he won't do it to a white politician. If you oppose Trump, he is an equal opportunity hater, a bully who does what bullies do by taking swings and throwing punches at every target and weakness they perceive. He is racist, yes, and while he probably did sprinkle racism on it, he pulled the overall birther thing from a bag of tricks he'll use on anyone who's citizenship has any sort of perceived hole or weakness in it. Such as Obama's Kenyan father. Ted Cruz being born on a business trip in Canada to American citizens. And now Harris is in his sights for having immigrant parents.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

And now you're rephrasing what I've posted, changing the meaning.
If you want to converse with me, then be interesting instead of testy.

I just quoted what you said. If you meant something different, please clarify.

You said: “I never said he’s not racist”.

Super. Again, a follow up question: do you think Trump has ever said something racist?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I just quoted what you said. If you meant something different, please clarify.

You said: “I never said he’s not racist”.

Super. Again, a follow up question: do you think Trump has ever said something racist?

We are acknowledging that his birther crap is color blind. Sure, I'm certain we can reasonable assume he laced it with racism (paywall OP - didn't read), but this idea he wouldn't do to someone who is white is false because he has. The birther thing itself is more xenophobic than racist.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

That's just it. He has targeted white politicians over his birther crap. That alone is not what makes it racist. It's his typical vile and putrid self. It is xenophobic, it is prejudice, but we can't pretend he won't do it to a white politician. If you oppose Trump, he is an equal opportunity hater, a bully who does what bullies do by taking swings and throwing punches at every target and weakness they perceive. He is racist, yes, and while he probably did sprinkle racism on it, he pulled the overall birther thing from a bag of tricks he'll use on anyone who's citizenship has any sort of perceived hole or weakness in it. Such as Obama's Kenyan father. Ted Cruz being born on a business trip in Canada to American citizens. And now Harris is in his sights for having immigrant parents.

Oh, I totally agree he is not some sophisticated White Supremacist. His racism, like everything else about him starting with his spray tan, is the cheap imitation variety.

Senator Lindsay Graham back in 2016 accidentally told the truth about Trump when he called him a “xenophobic, race-baiting bigot”. Trump’s birtherism on both a woman of color like Kamala and a white man born to a Cuban father and Canadian mother like Cruz, is consistent with that label.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

We are acknowledging that his birther crap is color blind. Sure, I'm certain we can reasonable assume he laced it with racism (paywall OP - didn't read), but this idea he wouldn't do to someone who is white is false because he has. The birther thing itself is more xenophobic than racist.

Did someone say he wouldn’t do it to someone who is white?

That’s fine but if we want to get really precise I would call him a “xenophobic race-baiting bigot” just to cover all our bases. He exhibits a brilliant rainbow of all the prejudices combined. I call him “racist” because it takes less time to say. But sure.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh, I totally agree he is not some sophisticated White Supremacist. His racism, like everything else about him starting with his spray tan, is the cheap imitation variety.

Senator Lindsay Graham back in 2016 accidentally told the truth about Trump when he called him a “xenophobic, race-baiting bigot”. Trump’s birtherism on both a woman of color like Kamala and a white man born to a Cuban father and Canadian mother like Cruz, is consistent with that label.

Except Rafael, Eleanor, and Ted Cruz are all white, which means the race baiting part doesn't apply.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Did someone say he wouldn’t do it to someone who is white?

Yup.

Now, we have a black female VP nominee just announced, and where does the Right go? Right back to the same racist tropes they're so familiar with. We all know this wouldn't be a line of attack if she were white. So let's drop the pretense that this is anything but racial. These are the same folks who thought "very fine people" were on both sides of the protests in Charleston.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Except Rafael, Eleanor, and Ted Cruz are all white, which means the race baiting part doesn't apply.

It doesn’t need to apply. I didn’t say he was all of those things at once. I can be a sexist and an anti-Semite for example ... doesn’t mean every sentence I utter is both.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Yup.

I stand corrected. I agree with LC what Trump said is part of a racist pattern but disagree Trump would have pursued this line of attack if she were white. The only color he looks out for is orange.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I also think the amount of energy spent debating whether something Trump does is “racist” detracts from acknowledging that it is “despicable”.

This is a common tactic of Trumpworld. Don’t defend him ... even acknowledge you aren’t defending him ... but then spend all your energy critiquing his critics. This is how they defend the otherwise indefensibe.

Not that I’m accusing you of doing that, Shadow Wolf - I’m just stepping back and making a general observation. I get that your point was more about being precise, which is fair.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Let's drop the pretense that this has anything to do with race.

I recently became enamoured with the term "caste" after hearing an NPR interview with Isabel Wilkerson. Here's a PBS interview:

 

[Secret Chief]

It doesn't take a genius does it.

Brief conversation this morning:

Partner: Have you seen the latest bantocks from Trump?

Me: No.

Partner: It's about Kamala.

Me: Presumably she's not a proper American.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Me: Presumably she's not a proper American.

Worse. She's not a proper woman. She's "nasty."

 

[Secret Chief]

Worse. She's not a proper woman. She's "nasty."

Trump should stop pretending and just get his KKK clob out from his wardrobe.