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Birtherism 2.0: The Totally-Not-Racist Party Strikes Again

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
The newest talking point among many on the Right is that Kamala Harris is not constitutionally eligible to be Vice President because her parents were immigrants.

Trump Encourages Racist Conspiracy Theory About Kamala Harris

This line of attack was reiterated by...who else? Trump.

You'll recall, of course, that the entire reason Trump became an ascendant figure in right wing politics is because he popularized the falsehood during the Obama years that our first black President was illegitimate because he wasn't born in America.

Now, we have a black female VP nominee just announced, and where does the Right go? Right back to the same racist tropes they're so familiar with. We all know this wouldn't be a line of attack if she were white. So let's drop the pretense that this is anything but racial. These are the same folks who thought "very fine people" were on both sides of the protests in Charleston.

Trump, in my view, is not the central problem in the country today. Voting him out of office won't end the legacy he has legitimized in office. He is a symptom of a much more deep-rooted disease in the Republican Party.

(But voting him out is a start. Let's do it. ;))
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The newest talking point among many on the Right is that Kamala Harris is not constitutionally eligible to be Vice President because her parents were immigrants.

Trump Encourages Racist Conspiracy Theory About Kamala Harris

This line of attack was reiterated by...who else? Trump.

You'll recall, of course, that the entire reason Trump became an ascendant figure in right wing politics is because he popularized the falsehood during the Obama years that our first black President was illegitimate because he wasn't born in America.

Now, we have a black female VP nominee just announced, and where does the Right go? Right back to the same racist tropes they're so familiar with. We all know this wouldn't be a line of attack if she were white. So let's drop the pretense that this is anything but racial. These are the same folks who thought "very fine people" were on both sides of the protests in Charleston.

Trump, in my view, is not the central problem in the country today. Voting him out of office won't end the legacy he has legitimized in office. He is a symptom of a much more deep-rooted disease in the Republican Party.

(But voting him out is a start. Let's do it. ;))
Let's drop the pretense that this has anything to do with race.
"Stupid" or "dishonest" would be an accurate description of
Trump's musings about her eligibility.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
Let's drop the pretense that this has anything to do with race.
"Stupid" or "dishonest" would be accurate.

Oh give me a break, it's obviously racial. :rolleyes: Mark Levin was literally saying today she's not allowed to call herself black. Let's not pretend the movement that denies the existence of systemic racism, won't say Black Lives Matter, is convinced the first black President was born in Kenya, defends the Confederacy, tells people of color in Congress to "go back to their country," and has all of 5 black supporters nationwide isn't playing a racial angle here. Heads in the sand help no one.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Oh give me a break, it's obviously racial. :rolleyes:
How does race enter into questioning her eligibility to
be President because of her parents being immigrants?
Mark Levin was literally saying today she's not allowed to call herself black.
This is a different claim by a different person.
Let's not pretend the movement that denies the existence of systemic racism, won't say Black Lives Matter, is convinced the first black President was born in Kenya, defends the Confederacy, tells people of color in Congress to "go back to their country," and has all of 5 black supporters nationwide isn't playing a racial angle here. Heads in the sand help no one.
Let's not pretend that Trump's boneheaded questioning of her
eligibility is based upon BLM, Obama's birthplace, the Confederacy,
etc, etc. Addressing what Trump actually said....how is it "racist"?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I call BS.
So do I.
You guys are overly eager to cry "Racism!".
If it's at all possible, then you claim it as gospel truth.
Birtherism was about Obama and Harris, neither of them are white.
You're ignoring what Trump actually said, & instead
invoking Obama.

Ya know....I've been thru this before. A poster called
me racist because I criticized some of Obama's policies.
So my eyes roll when you trot out this standard line
without adequate justification.
If you can find another example of birtherism about a white person from the right bring it to the table.
My memory is much better than yours.
Ref....
A Hint of New Life to a McCain Birth Issue
Is John McCain a natural-born citizen of the U.S.?

Edit: Some more white guys....
Ted Cruz (challenged by Trump)
Chester Arthur
Charles Hughes
Barry Goldwater
George Romney
 
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Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
How does race enter into questioning her eligibility to
be President because of her parents being immigrants?

She's black, Rev. They did it to the last/ only black President we've had. Now they're doing it to her. Pretty obvious.

This is a different claim by a different person.

A popular right wing pundit, whose thought has been reproduced right here on RF.

Let's not pretend that Trump's boneheaded questioning of her
eligibility is based upon BLM, Obama's birthplace, the Confederacy,
etc, etc. Addressing what Trump actually said....how is it "racist"?

Patterns are relevant. You can rationalize away any one act. Fool me once, as they say. If you read my OP, I said the problem is larger than Trump. He's a symptom. He's part of a pattern. So yes these things are really, painfully obviously connected, as I've now explained to you. White identity politics have purchase on the Right. All these data points coincide with that underlying point.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
She's black, Rev. They did it to the last/ only black President we've had. Now they're doing it to her. Pretty obvious.
What of challenges to John McCain for having been born in Panama?
(He was white.)
A popular right wing pundit, whose thought has been reproduced right here on RF.
The article is about what Trump said.
The issue was her parents being immigrants,
who can be any race.
Trump also challenged Ted Cruz's eligibility.
(He's white too....& born in Canuckistan.)
Patterns are relevant. You can rationalize away any one act. Fool me once, as they say. If you read my OP, I said the problem is larger than Trump. He's a symptom. He's part of a pattern. So yes these things are really, painfully obviously connected, as I've now explained to you. White identity politics have purchase on the Right. All these data points coincide with that underlying point.
The argument of obviousness is unconvincing.
How does John McCain fit into your pattern
of only black candidates being challenged?

Would you say that any eligibility challenge to
a candidate is racist if the candidate is black,
but isn't racist if the candidate is white?

There've been other challenges...
Chester Arthur
Charles Hughes
Barry Goldwater
George Romney

If one focuses upon all candidates, & not just the
black ones, a larger pattern emerges....
Candidates & parties challenge their foes any
time there's a possibility to disqualify them.
It's going to continue because the Constitution
is vague on what it is to be "natural born".
 
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Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
So do I.
You guys are overly eager to cry "Racism!".
If it's at all possible, then you claim it as gospel truth.

And "you guys" (I thought you weren't into generalizations?) are eager to pretend racism doesn't exist, even when it's right in front of you.

Ya know....I've been thru this before.

As have I. Not my first rodeo.

I've literally watched video in which a literal, card-carrying KKK member said he's not a racist.

A poster called
me racist because I criticized some of Obama's policies.
So my eyes roll when you trot out this standard line
without adequate justification.

I didn't do that, and neither did @sun rise. So my eyes roll when, yet again, you predictably come along and fail to admit the obvious, despite the multiple data points right in front of you.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
What of challenges to John McCain for having been born in Panama?
(He was white.)

Who promoted that theory, and how much traction did their idea get? In the case of birtherism, the guy who most famously promoted it became the GOP nominee, then the President.

I'll wait.

The article is about what Trump said.

My OP was about more than what Trump said. Trump merely repeated what he heard in RW media, as he always does.

The issue was her parents being immigrants,
who can be any race.

Yet not many British ex-pats get challenged this way. Hmmm...pure coincidence, I'm sure.

How does John McCain fit into your pattern
of only black candidates being challenged?

See above.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
And "you guys" (I thought you weren't into generalizations?) are eager to pretend racism doesn't exist, even when it's right in front of you.
This is one generalization wherein you fit.
You're claiming racism, but without good reason.

And to claim that I deny the existence of racism is specious.
What I'm doing here is debunking your claim.
There is racism, but not everything is racist.
I've literally watched video in which a literal, card-carrying KKK member said he's not a racist.
This doesn't support your claim that what Trump said is racist.
Nor does it support your claim that I deny that racism exists,
or that I am a racist because I disagreed with Obama.
I didn't do that, and neither did @sun rise. So my eyes roll when, yet again, you predictably come along and fail to admit the obvious, despite the multiple data points right in front of you.
I'm describing the climate wherein there's a predilection
to call anyone a "racist" without reasonable basis.

About "predictability"....
I knew that you'd stick to your guns, despite a lack of
evidence, by ignoring what Trump actually said, & by
ignoring my examples of birtherism being applied to
white candidates even more often than to black ones.
 
Let's drop the pretense that this has anything to do with race.
"Stupid" or "dishonest" would be an accurate description of
Trump's musings about her eligibility.
Yes, guys, Trump is not racist, okay?

Sure, he says things that a racist would say.

But, like everything else about him - from his spray tan to his fake university - it’s a cheap substitute for the real thing.

Trump is like the Sweet’N Low of racism. He’s the “I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter” of racism.

Huge difference, guys.

Trump would never jump to hasty conclusions about other people so let’s do him the same courtesy.

I mean, if every time Donald Trump assumes an American of color is not truly American we assume he’s being racist, what have we become?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Who promoted that theory, and how much traction did their idea get?
I provided links.
It got similar traction to the other challenges,
ie, none prevented anyone from running for
President or becoming one. McCain ran.
Obama ran & won. Harris is running.

Are your questions designed to dismiss the
several white candidates whose eligibility
was challenged?
In the case of birtherism, the guy who most famously promoted it became the GOP nominee, then the President.
My OP was about more than what Trump said. Trump merely repeated what he heard in RW media, as he always does.
You're still ignoring what he said, & the fact that he also
challenged Ted Cruz. You say birtherism is only about
black candidates, but this is utterly wrong, as I've shown.
Yet not many British ex-pats get challenged this way. Hmmm...pure coincidence, I'm sure.
Did you happen to read the white candidates I listed?
They too were challenged for eligibility.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Yes, guys, Trump is not racist, okay?
I've never said he's not racist.
Sure, he says things that a racist would say.
But you're not addressing what he said to inspire
the NY times & posters here to claim racism.
But, like everything else about him - from his spray tan to his fake university - it’s a cheap substitute for the real thing.
This doesn't make what he said racist.
Trump is like the Sweet’N Low of racism. He’s the “I Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter” of racism.
Again, this is hyperbole...not a reasoned argument that what he said is racist.
Huge difference, guys.

Trump would never jump to hasty conclusions about other people so let’s do him the same courtesy.

I mean, if every time Donald Trump assumes an American of color is not truly American we assume he’s being racist, what have we become?
I get that you dislike Trump. He has many faults.
But you're just complaining about him instead of
supporting the contention that what he said is racist.

What he said is worthy of criticism. It was ridiculous.
It bespeaks ignorance of the Constitution, & disinterest in
thinking before speaking. This is a severe problem.
Why make it about something dubious?
You're ignoring the big & very real problem of his hebetude,
thoughtlessness, & aggressive ignorance of governance.
 
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Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
This is one generalization wherein you fit.
You're claiming racism, but without good reason.

Other than, you know, the reasons I listed and you hand-waved away.

And to claim that I deny the existence of racism is specious.
What I'm doing here is debunking your claim.

You havent so far. But keep trying! Eventually you'll get it, I'm sure.

This doesn't support your claim that what Trump said is racist.

I didnt claim it did. Are you done misinterpreting me now?

What it demonstrates is that it is possible to be racist, flagrantly racist, and be in denial.

Nor does it support your claim that I deny that racism exists,

I don't think you deny that all racism everywhere exists. I think you deny it in ways where it counts.

or that I am a racist because I disagreed with Obama.

I didn't claim that either. Man, keep it going Rev! All these amazing straw men you're knocking down, look at you, impressive sir!

About "predictability"....
I knew that you'd stick to your guns, despite a lack of
evidence,

Other than, you know, the evidence I cited.

by ignoring what Trump actually said

I didn't do that.

, & by
ignoring my examples of birtherism being applied to
white candidates even more often than to black ones.

You edited that at the end, after I'd replied. Those examples are quite old, from a time when there were many fewer black people in positions of power or elected office. So obviously, not terribly relevant to the current political context.

You, on the other hand, ignored the obviously relevant question I asked about McCain, the most recent example.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
I provided links.
It got similar traction to the other challenges,
ie, none prevented anyone from running for
President or becoming one. McCain ran.
Obama ran & won. Harris is running.

The people who promoted McCain not being eligible didnt run for President. Nor did Obama promote that idea. Nor did any Democratic congresspeople even, that I recall.

Wanna try again?

Are your questions designed to dismiss the
several white candidates whose eligibility
was challenged?

Asked and answered. Next excuse?

You're still ignoring what he said,

What are you talking about? I'm not ignoring it at all. I literally started the thread about it. Try again.

& the fact that he also
challenged Ted Cruz. You say birtherism is only about
black candidates, but this is utterly wrong, as I've shown.

Strawman yet again. I didnt say that. I said it forms part of the constellation of racist, white identity politics tactics and opinions that many on the right endorse, including Trump.
 
I've never said he's not racist.

But you're not addressing what he said to inspire
the NY times & posters here to claim racism.

This doesn't make what he said racist.

Again, this is hyperbole...not a reasoned argument that what he said is racist.

I get that you dislike Trump. He has many faults.
But you're just complaining about him instead of
supporting the contention that what he said is racist.
You’ve never said he’s not racist? That’s a great start, Revolt. Proud of you bud.

Question: do you think Trump has ever said anything racist?
 
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