Biggest benefits of leaving a religion

[Katzpur]

So, this doesn't only apply to religion, but can also apply to any other group if they don't promote freedom of thought, even an atheist group, and also might not apply to all religions. And it might not even apply to all people who are religious as I know there are religious people on this forum who it does not apply to.

For me the biggest and most cathartic benefit of leaving religion is freedom of thought and self expression.

I am free to change my mind at will, based on evidence provided.
I can be honest with how I think and feel without being told that my way of thinking and feeling is wrong.
I can be honest with myself and what I actually belief and do not feel pressured to belief certain specific things.
I can honestly explore other viewpoints honestly, thoroughly and openly without feeling like I am being a traitor.
I can honestly listen to critique about my viewpoints without feeling uncomfortable or attacked.
I don't assume that others who don't believe as I do are inherently wrong or misguided.
I don't have to feel I need to villainize those who are opposed to my beliefs.
I don't have to feel I need to refute scientific theories.
I can genuinely be interested in all religions and explore them without feeling like God will condemn me for being a traitor.
I don't have to engage in logical fallacies and mental gymnastic to defend views that I honestly do not believe in.
I am free to recognise and admit to when I am wrong and am totally comfortable with it.
I can "travel along the route" based on where the evidence leads me.

Any thought?
Any religions that you would apply what I experienced to?
Any disagreements?

If your former religion denied you these freedoms, then I can certainly understand why it would be a burden to be free of them. Although I have never left a religion, I do know what it feels like to not always see eye-to-eye with others in my church. Fortunately, I am able to just accept the parts I can agree with (which is most of it) and be my own person with respect to the parts I disagree with. Check out my signature to see what I'm getting at.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I made a list of the benefits of the benefits of leaving Christianity once and saved it.

[1] Hope for man and the world. When I was a Christian, I thought we were all goners. It was always the end times, and we were all praying for Jesus to come again and destroy the earth. But now, I know that it is possible that man can go on until he evolves into something better, and then again.

[2] Freedom from bondage caused by the fear of damnation. Freedom from fear of hell. Freedom from fear of Satan. Freedom from fear of demons and devils. Freedom from fear of my own thoughts. Freedom from the belief that I may be forced to remain conscious for much more than trillions of years no matter how boring or unpleasant existence becomes.

[3] Freedom from the illusion of being constantly watched by an angry, judgmental, authoritarian, smiting, prudish overlord.

[4] When a cute little doe-eyed girl dies of leukemia sometime later today (and one will somewhere), you'll have the comfort of knowing that it was just rotten luck, and not something caused by or allowed to happen by any ghost.

[5] Respect for mankind, life, earth and the universe. Christianity teaches that animals are soulless meat bags to be exploited as man sees fit, and man a constitutionally diseased creature. Then it teaches that the whole material world including earth is made of a base substance - matter - which is only transitory. Christianity demeans mankind enough to make the phrase "the flesh" derogatory, and the material world enough to make the word "worldly" an insult.

[6] Freedom from an intellectual system that despises science and erudition.

[7] Freedom from an ethic that defines love in terms of torture and crucifixion, or a pardon from eternal torment by an infinitely evil devil created by an allegedly loving god. The moral structure is wrong for me: Faith, worship and piety are not virtues. Autonomy is a virtue, not mindless submission. Becoming educated in the liberal arts is a virtue, not learning scripture. Courage is a virtue, not meekness.

[8] Relief from thousands of hours spent in churches, praying, and reading the bible. And I've saved thousands of dollars, diverted from being used to promote religion to things of more value to me.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I'm not sure which, I just think it's Über-supercessionist.
Prime example:

• Me: I believe in the Resurrection of Jesus.
• Baha'i: So do we.
• Me: Really?
• Baha'i: Yeah, we say it's a metaphor. The Bible is filled with metaphors and allegories.
• Me: ???

Isn't Christianity also supercessionist?

I do understand what you mean though. This is where Baha'i and I come into contention. I think their views are eisegesis rather than exegesis, similar to muslims seeing Muhammed prophecied in the bible.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I think this is probably most true of more fundamentalist versions of religion or ideology, where black-and-white thinking abounds. You're an ex-JW, and as someone whose dad is also an ex-JW, I can sympathize. He told me a story once about how he was preaching one day from Revelation, and thinking to himself as he was giving the party line of how to interpret certain passages, "How in the world did we get this teaching from what this says?" Thus began his exploration of other versions of Bible belief.

I also credit him with giving me a degree of intellectual freedom to read the Bible myself and come to my own conclusions about it, despite being raised in an otherwise quite conservative Christian tradition.

Yes, it is true of more fundamentalist versions and ideology. With other faiths that are more progressive the progressiveness in their nature lessons what I mentioned in the OP.

I think you get the gist of it because of your father. In fact i had the same experience as your dad, as my journey to leaving started by asking where a certain teaching came from.

That intellectual freedom your dad gave is a direct result of his experience most likely because he appreciates it more after leaving.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I think it depends on the congregation. Generally (the bigger churches) they pay lip service, attend church occasionally and enjoy the social scene. Then there are the rural conservatives who are very traditional. Church every sunday, arms and head covered, full blown battles over who will arrange the flowers next week.

Of course this was nearly 40 years ago, many of the rural churches have been sold off to become second homes for the rich and shameless

I agree with you. I imagine the church would be a key feature of rural communities so therefore more important.

 

[Samael_Khan]

If your former religion denied you these freedoms, then I can certainly understand why it would be a burden to be free of them. Although I have never left a religion, I do know what it feels like to not always see eye-to-eye with others in my church. Fortunately, I am able to just accept the parts I can agree with (which is most of it) and be my own person with respect to the parts I disagree with. Check out my signature to see what I'm getting at.

That is a brilliant quote. Never trade in ownership of yourself for the sake of the tribe. It would be like selling your soul.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Back to the OP and benefits:

Less cognitive dissonance

I feel I have a fairly simple, clean philosophy, that leads to mostly simple ethics and morals.

The cognitive dissonance led me to be an expert at mental gymnastics. I think I was qualified for the mental olympics.

A simple philosophy is good.

 

[Left Coast]

Yes, it is true of more fundamentalist versions and ideology. With other faiths that are more progressive the progressiveness in their nature lessons what I mentioned in the OP.

I think you get the gist of it because of your father. In fact i had the same experience as your dad, as my journey to leaving started by asking where a certain teaching came from.

That intellectual freedom your dad gave is a direct result of his experience most likely because he appreciates it more after leaving.

Absolutely. Unfortunately he just traded one type of fundamentalism for another IMO, but at least his current version places heavy emphasis on grace and freedom.

 

[Link]

I left religion. Did this for a while. Decided to give God's word another chance. I found Quran to be forceful yet subtle enough to not force you to accept proofs but had proofs. With reflection, I felt like I can do all the same things.

However, I found Islam and Shiism in a terrible state. So therefore, I don't consider myself Muslim or Shiite or anything under any label that can give me a misconception with a group of people.

If people defined Muslim as just who believes in Mohammad. Or Twelver Shiism as just those who accept twelve successors. I would be fine with titles. But it comes with other misconceptions and the way people approach "what do Shiites believe" or "what do Muslims believe", is a very wrong approach.

And this had lead me to become neutral on what real Hindiusm is, what real Buddhism is, because, for all I know, all I see is majority view, with misconceptions layered on that, and at the core, there is a minority not known to anyone, individuals out there, who understand the original sources best, and those original sources are revealed by God.

I Don't know. I don't know is what I'm saying. When I re-read Gospels - I found it to be amazing. Maybe the only fault in it is what I said about divorce or woman, but, other then that, it's beautiful to me and definitely not just inspired from God but from God directly to Jesus to disciples and paraphrased differently to show God knew what every disciple experienced. The Torah or Tanakh overall beautiful (with some major discrepancies and faults, and some really bad things).

It's just I understand it differently, and so to me, it can be even that Native Americans have passed on holy scripture for all I know, but all we hear is they have none and it could be a misconception people spread about them.

For all I know The hindu scriptures are over all faultless, I don't know.

I just want to remove the sorcery and falsehood and evil upon the Quran and we'll see if I can do this at least.

 

[Samael_Khan]

[1] Hope for man and the world. When I was a Christian, I thought we were all goners. It was always the end times, and we were all praying for Jesus to come again and destroy the earth. But now, I know that it is possible that man can go on until he evolves into something better, and then again.

The religion tends to be very pessimistic about humanity. I think they have a point but only to a certain extent.

[2] Freedom from bondage caused by the fear of damnation. Freedom from fear of hell. Freedom from fear of Satan. Freedom from fear of demons and devils. Freedom from fear of my own thoughts. Freedom from the belief that I may be forced to remain conscious for much more than trillions of years no matter how boring or unpleasant existence becomes.

Basic fear mongering. The first step in FOG, which is Fear-Obligation-Guilt, the sign of an abusive relationship. Many people know it as emotional blackmail.

Emotional blackmail - Wikipedia

[3] Freedom from the illusion of being constantly watched by an angry, judgmental, authoritarian, smiting, prudish overlord.

Yes. The funniest thing from the religion I was in was that they said that there was three people in a marriage relationship, husband, wife and Jehovah. A very uncomfortable thought since those in marriage have a sex life. Anyway, God acts the thought police in this point.

[4] When a cute little doe-eyed girl dies of leukemia sometime later today (and one will somewhere), you'll have the comfort of knowing that it was just rotten luck, and not something caused by or allowed to happen by any ghost.

True, very true.

[5] Respect for mankind, life, earth and the universe. Christianity teaches that animals are soulless meat bags to be exploited as man sees fit, and man a constitutionally diseased creature. Then it teaches that the whole material world including earth is made of a base substance - matter - which is only transitory. Christianity demeans mankind enough to make the phrase "the flesh" derogatory, and the material world enough to make the word "worldly" an insult.

Agree here. It degrades life in my mind.

[6] Freedom from an intellectual system that despises science and erudition.

Yep. And freedom from defending pseudo science.

[7] Freedom from an ethic that defines love in terms of torture and crucifixion, or a pardon from eternal torment by an infinitely evil devil created by an allegedly loving god. The moral structure is wrong for me: Faith, worship and piety are not virtues. Autonomy is a virtue, not mindless submission. Becoming educated in the liberal arts is a virtue, not learning scripture. Courage is a virtue, not meekness.

It makes no sense, since why would God give us reason if he wants us to be mindless? That is messed up.

[8] Relief from thousands of hours spent in churches, praying, and reading the bible. And I've saved thousands of dollars, diverted from being used to promote religion to things of more value to me.

I personally have no problem reading the Bible. My problem is that I could only believe in interpretation from one group of people and not other groups, which limited my insight. Definitely agree on the forced socialising and praying to yourself.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Absolutely. Unfortunately he just traded one type of fundamentalism for another IMO, but at least his current version places heavy emphasis on grace and freedom.

Is he still a Christian?

 

[Messianic Israelite]

So, this doesn't only apply to religion, but can also apply to any other group if they don't promote freedom of thought, even an atheist group, and also might not apply to all religions. And it might not even apply to all people who are religious as I know there are religious people on this forum who it does not apply to.

But this is from my experience. I wonder if anybody else has had similar experiences.

For me the biggest and most cathartic benefit of leaving religion is freedom of thought and self expression.

I am free to change my mind at will, based on evidence provided.
I can be honest with how I think and feel without being told that my way of thinking and feeling is wrong.
I can be honest with myself and what I actually belief and do not feel pressured to belief certain specific things.
I can honestly explore other viewpoints honestly, thoroughly and openly without feeling like I am being a traitor.
I can honestly listen to critique about my viewpoints without feeling uncomfortable or attacked.
I don't assume that others who don't believe as I do are inherently wrong or misguided.
I don't have to feel I need to villainize those who are opposed to my beliefs.
I don't have to feel I need to refute scientific theories.
I can genuinely be interested in all religions and explore them without feeling like God will condemn me for being a traitor.
I don't have to engage in logical fallacies and mental gymnastic to defend views that I honestly do not believe in.
I am free to recognise and admit to when I am wrong and am totally comfortable with it.
I can "travel along the route" based on where the evidence leads me.

Any thought?
Any religions that you would apply what I experienced to?
Any disagreements?

Hi Israel Khan. Good afternoon. If we want to be disciples of the Messiah, we have to exercise discipline. If we don't want to be disciplined and run wild, then sure, maybe religion isn't for you. But if we want to enter in to eternal life, we have to exercise the self-control that will deem us worthy to not only rule ourselves, but also to be used to rule others in the world to come. 1 Corinthians 9:25 talks about this: "And every man that striveth in the games exerciseth self-control in all things. Now they do it to receive a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible."

 

[Left Coast]

Is he still a Christian?

Yes, Baptist/Evangelical variety.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I left religion. Did this for a while. Decided to give God's word another chance. I found Quran to be forceful yet subtle enough to not force you to accept proofs but had proofs. With reflection, I felt like I can do all the same things.

However, I found Islam and Shiism in a terrible state. So therefore, I don't consider myself Muslim or Shiite or anything under any label that can give me a misconception with a group of people.

If people defined Muslim as just who believes in Mohammad. Or Twelver Shiism as just those who accept twelve successors. I would be fine with titles. But it comes with other misconceptions and the way people approach "what do Shiites believe" or "what do Muslims believe", is a very wrong approach.

And this had lead me to become neutral on what real Hindiusm is, what real Buddhism is, because, for all I know, all I see is majority view, with misconceptions layered on that, and at the core, there is a minority not known to anyone, individuals out there, who understand the original sources best, and those original sources are revealed by God.

I Don't know. I don't know is what I'm saying. When I re-read Gospels - I found it to be amazing. Maybe the only fault in it is what I said about divorce or woman, but, other then that, it's beautiful to me and definitely not just inspired from God but from God directly to Jesus to disciples and paraphrased differently to show God knew what every disciple experienced. The Torah or Tanakh overall beautiful (with some major discrepancies and faults, and some really bad things).

It's just I understand it differently, and so to me, it can be even that Native Americans have passed on holy scripture for all I know, but all we hear is they have none and it could be a misconception people spread about them.

For all I know The hindu scriptures are over all faultless, I don't know.

I just want to remove the sorcery and falsehood and evil upon the Quran and we'll see if I can do this at least.

I can relate to you a lot with regards to seeing the beauty in various scriptures. I think most people do not even know what Hinduism and Buddhism actually says on a deeper level.

I also find that Shiism isn't even thought of when Islam is mentioned as people focus on the Sunnis and Salafists.

It is good not to know, since it means that you will explore things on a deeper level.

I think the Quran is tainted by certain historical sources which belong to one group, the Sunni hadith, which is very weird. I mean, when I read the Quran, having read the Bible extensively, I interpret many Quran verses in a different light to how Sunni's see them because I am using the Bible to provide context and reference.

Do you follow any hadith collections yourself?

 

[Katzpur]

That is a brilliant quote. Never trade in ownership of yourself for the sake of the tribe. It would be like selling your soul.

Yes! Exactly. Like selling your soul.

 

[Link]

Do you follow any hadith collections yourself?

Hadiths is both propaganda filled from Satan but also the only way to understand Quran properly and contains insights from Ahlulbayt. Without their insights, and way of breaking the curse and sorcery upon the Quran, Quran remains unclear and ambiguous.

It's like a minefield, we have to walk and go through - that's what hadiths collections are basically to me.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Hi Israel Khan. Good afternoon. If we want to be disciples of the Messiah, we have to exercise discipline. If we don't want to be disciplined and run wild, then sure, maybe religion isn't for you. But if we want to enter in to eternal life, we have to exercise the self-control that will deem us worthy to not only rule ourselves, but also to be used to rule others in the world to come. 1 Corinthians 9:25 talks about this: "And every man that striveth in the games exerciseth self-control in all things. Now they do it to receive a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible."

In the bibles viewpoint though discipline basically means mind control. One cannot genuinely believe something fully if they have unaddressed doubts and need to discipline themselves, which is suppressing your mind and emotions. True believers in a relation would not need discipline because they would follow naturally.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Hadiths is both propaganda filled from Satan but also the only way to understand Quran properly and contains insights from Ahlulbayt. Without their insights, and way of breaking the curse and sorcery upon the Quran, Quran remains unclear and ambiguous.

It's like a minefield, we have to walk and go through - that's what hadiths collections are basically to me.

Yes, I do find them to be a minefield. They are filled with messed up stories and is just very weird to me.

Are the Alhulbayt the 12 Imams?

 

[Link]

Also, submission as a title and description of a religion God is pleased with is contingent upon a chosen leader out in the open.

Without one, you have to rebel and think for yourself and we will err in that, but God prefers that, then attributing him all sorts of evils by submitting to scholars and following what we don't know.

Submitting to God - it's not possible nor does God want us to try in this day and age. Till the Mahdi comes back, it's all about rising, reflecting, and searching.

The path is no longer about submitting to God which was emphasized to be the true religion that God loves, but emphasized that he was pleased with it only when he appointed us Ali, and stipulated we follow the Captains that navigate.

Yes, Abraham and Mohammad and Moses and Jesus all submitted to God, but it's not possible to do it in this age for me. I want to, I would love to, I just know it's impossible and if I take it too seriously, I would have to resort to Taqlid (blind following) and so I accept I don't follow the teachings of Mohammad nor am I going drown myself in trying to follow it and re-discovering all that he taught.

Submission through the name of God is only when a name of God, a Captain from him, sails the ship by his permission.

We are without a leader in the open, hence, submission is no longer something we should attempt.

Rather, it's more important we keep our humanity and emphasize on what we know for certain and work for justice that we know for certain.

But what we tried to do, is figure out everything they actually taught, this has resulted in bad results.

Submission as a religion is not to be attempted in this age - how can we, when we don't have the means to?

 

[Link]

Yes, I do find them to be a minefield. They are filled with messed up stories and is just very weird to me.

Are the Alhulbayt the 12 Imams?

Mohammad, Fatima and 12 Imams, yes, you are right.