Biggest benefits of leaving a religion

[Samael_Khan]

Also, submission as a title and description of a religion God is pleased with is contingent upon a chosen leader out in the open.

Without one, you have to rebel and think for yourself and we will err in that, but God prefers that, then attributing him all sorts of evils by submitting to scholars and following what we don't know.

Submitting to God - it's not possible nor does God want us to try in this day and age. Till the Mahdi comes back, it's all about rising, reflecting, and searching.

The path is no longer about submitting to God which was emphasized to be the true religion that God loves, but emphasized that he was pleased with it only when he appointed us Ali, and stipulated we follow the Captains that navigate.

Yes, Abraham and Mohammad and Moses and Jesus all submitted to God, but it's not possible to do it in this age for me. I want to, I would love to, I just know it's impossible and if I take it too seriously, I would have to resort to Taqlid (blind following) and so I accept I don't follow the teachings of Mohammad nor am I going drown myself in trying to follow it and re-discovering all that he taught.

Submission through the name of God is only when a name of God, a Captain from him, sails the ship by his permission.

We are without a leader in the open, hence, submission is no longer something we should attempt.

Rather, it's more important we keep our humanity and emphasize on what we know for certain and work for justice that we know for certain.

But what we tried to do, is figure out everything they actually taught, this has resulted in bad results.

Submission as a religion is not to be attempted in this age - how can we, when we don't have the means to?

This is an interesting view. So basically it is only worth trying to follow God if he has a representative on earth?

 

[Link]

This is an interesting view. So basically it is only worth trying to follow God if he has a representative on earth?

Yes. And the Mahdi he was meant to return already. It's been too long, and when the Mongols burned 99.9% of our hadiths, and we were left with so little, and salvaged so little, we got to know, there is no way. No way to follow God now.

It's impossible, so we have to accept we will differ and err and be forbearing towards it. Yes, salvage what we can, but don't go all out and then attribute God all sorts of falsehood and conjecture and non-sense!

 

[Link]

My mistake Mongols didn't burn 99.9% of our hadiths, they put all our books in rivers to the extent the water went black from ink.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Yes. And the Mahdi he was meant to return already. It's been too long, and when the Mongols burned 99.9% of our hadiths, and we were left with so little, and salvaged so little, we got to know, there is no way. No way to follow God now.

It's impossible, so we have to accept we will differ and err and be forbearing towards it. Yes, salvage what we can, but don't go all out and then attribute God all sorts of falsehood and conjecture and non-sense!

I didn't know about the mongols burning the hadiths. Did they only burn 99.9% of Shia hadiths? And the Sunni Hadiths are intact?

 

[Samael_Khan]

My mistake Mongols didn't burn 99.9% of our hadiths, they put all our books in rivers to the extent the water went black from ink.

Oh ok. But they did destroy 99.9% of the hadiths?

 

[Link]

Oh ok. But they did destroy 99.9% of the hadiths?

Most of Islamic books are lost forever. Yes. This is true.

 

[Watchmen]

Freedom in every way.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Most of Islamic books are lost forever. Yes. This is true.

That is so fascinating!

I always thought that the Sunni muslims have a whole lot of Hadiths, especially the Sahih ones, intact.

 

[Link]

That is so fascinating!

I always thought that the Sunni muslims have a whole lot of Hadiths, especially the Sahih ones, intact.

They do, and Shiites have even more hadiths intact than Sunnis. But still most are lost.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Freedom in every way.

I agree with mental freedom. If we gave total freedom to everybody then there would only be chaos.

 

[Samael_Khan]

They do, and Shiites have even more hadiths intact than Sunnis. But still most are lost.

Why is it that nobody ever speaks of the Shia hadiths? What irritates me is that those who are against Islam do not realise that they are against the Sunni version and refer to Sunni Hadiths as if they debunk Islam whereas there are Shia hadiths to consider. Two different viewpoints and two different histories.

 

[Link]

Why is it that nobody ever speaks of the Shia hadiths? What irritates me is that those who are against Islam do not realise that they are against the Sunni version and refer to Sunni Hadiths as if they debunk Islam whereas there are Shia hadiths to consider. Two different viewpoints and two different histories.

Because it's easier. Shiite hadiths are full of evil too. A minefield as I said. But I found the beauty of guidance therein and the way Quran unravels it's wonders through that as well.

 

[Watchmen]

I agree with mental freedom. If we gave total freedom to everybody then there would only be chaos.

I disagree. People can still choose good with total freedom.

 

[SomeRandom]

I am instantly suspicious of any thought control techniques. Even if it’s in the name of God.
I mean I didn’t really encounter that in my religious upbringing, personally. But I do follow a podcast called “Uncultured” which is basically a group of people who left highly controlling religious groups and are now free to discuss the pop culture they were once forbidden from. I find it rather interesting because I was taught that religion should always be freeing. So the different perspectives are always a nice change of pace.

 

[Link]

I disagree. People can still choose good with total freedom.

Can is a big difference then will.

 

[PruePhillip]

So, this doesn't only apply to religion, but can also apply to any other group if they don't promote freedom of thought, even an atheist group, and also might not apply to all religions. And it might not even apply to all people who are religious as I know there are religious people on this forum who it does not apply to.

But this is from my experience. I wonder if anybody else has had similar experiences.

For me the biggest and most cathartic benefit of leaving religion is freedom of thought and self expression.

I am free to change my mind at will, based on evidence provided.
I can be honest with how I think and feel without being told that my way of thinking and feeling is wrong.
I can be honest with myself and what I actually belief and do not feel pressured to belief certain specific things.
I can honestly explore other viewpoints honestly, thoroughly and openly without feeling like I am being a traitor.
I can honestly listen to critique about my viewpoints without feeling uncomfortable or attacked.
I don't assume that others who don't believe as I do are inherently wrong or misguided.
I don't have to feel I need to villainize those who are opposed to my beliefs.
I don't have to feel I need to refute scientific theories.
I can genuinely be interested in all religions and explore them without feeling like God will condemn me for being a traitor.
I don't have to engage in logical fallacies and mental gymnastic to defend views that I honestly do not believe in.
I am free to recognise and admit to when I am wrong and am totally comfortable with it.
I can "travel along the route" based on where the evidence leads me.

Any thought?
Any religions that you would apply what I experienced to?
Any disagreements?

With respect to Christianity, what scientific evidence do you offer?
The bible says you aren't free if you reject God, you are just a servant to sin.
My profile below gives examples of this.

 

[Watchmen]

Can is a big difference then will.

People will. Satisfied?

There are billions of people who don’t actually follow religion and they don’t go around murdering and raping each other.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is an interesting view. So basically it is only worth trying to follow God if he has a representative on earth?

That is how I see it, following God can only be via a mediator, they are all we can know about God and that is why many have been mistaken for God, they are the only ones that share directly from God.

Big topic though.

Freedom in every way.......I disagree. People can still choose good with total freedom.

Unbridled freedom is anarchy and does not work and never has, as man needs a moral code that is given in just laws for all people to submit to.

Regards Tony

 

[Watchmen]

Unbridled freedom is anarchy and does not work and never has, as man needs a moral code that is given in just laws for all people to submit to.

Regards Tony

Man has an inherent moral code. No religion needed.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Because it's easier. Shiite hadiths are full of evil too. A minefield as I said. But I found the beauty of guidance therein and the way Quran unravels it's wonders through that as well.

Ahhh.... OK. I understand that both could be a minefield. So what is the difference between Shia hadith and Sunni Hadith in terms of content? What guidance do you find in the Shia hadith vs the Sunni hadith? I know that who you trust plays a big factor in hadiths each group declares reliable.