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Featured Baha'i and Messengers

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Policy, Jan 12, 2022 at 9:47 PM.

  1. Policy

    Policy Active Member

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    I understand. You are making a logical contradiction, and either unable or unwilling to acknowledge that fact.
     
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  2. Policy

    Policy Active Member

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    So, this needs some unpacking. Your implication is that I must be unbiased in order to see the answers you think I should see. I don't. I can have a conclusion, and as long as I am wiling to reevaluate that conclusion for flaws in reasoning, or to discard it in the favor of contradicting evidence, that is all that is needed. Do you disagree?.

    Do you imagine that of all the strongly held positions that I have had over the course of my life that no one has ever convinced me that I was wrong? Of course they have. And how did they do it? By showing me that my reasoning was unsound, or by presenting evidence that disconfirmed my position.

    BTW, a belief in God was one of my strongly held positions.
     
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  3. Policy

    Policy Active Member

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    For an intelligent being with a goal of having me believe that they exist, those are the only two options. Unable or unwilling.
     
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  4. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    Errr. Nope. that's a Childs false dichotomy.

    Maybe he knows better. Who are you to know better?
     
  5. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Think before you speak....so stay silent.

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    I speak only from my understanding of the topic in discussion here, as I always do in RF
     
  6. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    God chooses Whoever He wishes to be His Representative on earth in each age.
     
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  7. Policy

    Policy Active Member

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    In exactly the same way that Circe shows up to say hello to every generation -- thru the mythologies of the ancient worlds.
     
  8. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Think before you speak....so stay silent.

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    I don't think you should or should not see anything. What spiritual people experience is different from person to person according to what level of understanding and wisdom they have realised.
     
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  9. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    I was never as a religious person. I am still a culture Christian in some sense, but my religion when I had one, was culture and not really faith. I only got faith as a strong skeptic.
     
  10. Policy

    Policy Active Member

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    Whoa! A direct response with no hedging. Be still my heart! Thank you, very much.*

    What are a few of the things that it would contradict?

    *And if you wonder, there is no sarcasm in this.
     
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  11. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    The either / or supposition couldvalso use some unpacking.
     
  12. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    I'm looking for an answer to why many theists refuse to examine why they are so absorbed in religious belief. Theists have an itch they keep scratching, but don't look to understand why they are itchy.

    Honesty, after they introspect their own nature as a theist.

    It's like studying which tool to use to scratch your itch. Theists don't consider why they have this itch at all, and spending time trying to find the most satisfying way to scratch is what is important.

    You seem to think everyone is equally itchy. No, not everyone has this problem.

    I offer theists, like yourself, every opportunity to explain why you believe in religious concepts. Theists are getting more vague, and offer shorter replies. When there is a long reply it tends to repeat dogma, which isn't an answer.

    The fundamental dilemma for believers is that they don't examine their own psychological motives and reasons to believe. With so many thousands of options for religious belief, has it occurred to you that there is no actual and final truth, and it is just a matter of dogma that satisfied the personality of the believer, which further is motivated by evolved traits?

    I see theists need to apply some religious framework to their lives to feel significant. But I don't see many examine their nature as evolved animals so they understand WHY they are motivated to believe at all. That natural element is crucial to a search for truth. Just finding some dogma that soothes anxiety only masks the problem of the natural and feral mind.
     
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  13. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    First its coz the sun would burn me up.
    Considering all the " prophets" there have been, all getting " messages" that contradict eachother with no evidence any of them
    is not fake, I say the phrasing is off.

    "Whoever so wishes will claim to be a messenger"

    THAT statement is abundantly evidenced.
    Your statement has zero evidence.

    Where does the sensible person make his bet?
     
  14. Policy

    Policy Active Member

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    Your god is depicted as being omnipotent. So, yes.
     
  15. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    Am I wrong about Baha'i not having a way to test whether a Messenger is authentic? The three Baha'i that post here have not explained the objective process that can verify a Messenger is authentic. So perhaps you can prove me wrong by proving this list, and giving us a demonstration of how flawless it is.

    It better be damned flawless, after all we are testing whether an ordinary, fallible mortal is actually a Messenger of God, and not just another religious crackpot making a bunch of unverifiable claims.

    Show show us. Prove me wrong.
     
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  16. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Well said.
    If i may summarize-
    We dont all have a God shaped hole.
     
  17. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    No, some of us overdo evidence and rationality. But both holes are natural.
     
  18. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    If I tell you there is an orange on the table, you can look and verify I'm correct.

    If I tell you my version of God exists, how do you verify that? Do you just accept what I say and don't question it?

    Do you blindly accept what I say and then go tell other people what I told you? That is how religion works, the next generation mimics the claims of the older generation.
     
  19. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    Occam's razor infers a much simpler explanation.
     
  20. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    If it helps I don't believe I anyone can suffer anything after they die. so chill and just live your life. In fact focus all your efforts and avoiding and preventing unnecessary suffering in this life, and it is the only one we have any objective evidence for.
     
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