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A Western Feminist Defends the Muslim Veil

TheKnight

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
dogsgod said:
So no one wears the veil because their father or husband pressures them to wear it? America must be a real special place.
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Pressure and force are different. I can pressure you to wear something, but unless I make you with physical force, it's still your choice.
 
kai

kai

ragamuffin
is the right to wear the veil of equal importance to the right not to wear the veil?
 
dogsgod

dogsgod

Well-Known Member
TheKnight said:
Pressure and force are different. I can pressure you to wear something, but unless I make you with physical force, it's still your choice.
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OK, so in America some are pressured but none are forced. America must be a special place.
 
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Yerda

Yerda

Veteran Member
Alceste said:
Dogsgod, I've never heard a Muslim woman in the West implying she is forced or coerced to wear the veil by a husband or father.
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Have you spent any time with Muslims, Alceste?

I've known women who were forced by their husbands to wear headscarves and veils (among the many things the commanded). An ex of mine was raised as a Muslim and she seemed free enough to wear what she liked, but not all of her family enjoyed that right.
 
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Jaiket said:
Have you spent any time with Muslims, Alceste?

I've known women who were forced by their husbands to wear headscarves and veils (among the many things the commanded). An ex of mine was raised as a Muslim and she seemed free enough to wear what she liked, but not all of her family enjoyed that right.
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But the question is, can you provide some examples? If it's so common, surely there should be a prolific amount of complaining going on that you can link me to.

I have an old school friend who became a Muslim and wears the veil. She used to be a Catholic and her whole family apart (from her husband) is Catholic, so she obviously wears it voluntarily. I also have an Iranian friend from a Muslim family who does not wear it.

So there you go. An anecdote for an anecdote. I guess we're right back where we started!
 
Yerda

Yerda

Veteran Member
Alceste said:
But the question is, can you provide some examples? If it's so common, surely there should be a prolific amount of complaining going on that you can link me to.
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That doesn't seem to be the question. You said you've never heard of it while I'm saying I have. If you want to remain sceptical that's up to you, man.
 
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Jaiket said:
That doesn't seem to be the question. You said you've never heard of it while I'm saying I have. If you want to remain sceptical that's up to you, man.
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Yeah, I've never heard of it, but your own personal opinion (even based on your own personal experience of hearsay about a friend of a friend), isn't quite enough for me to start saying "Oh, yeah, I've heard of this". I need to get it "from the horse's mouth", as they say. An essay by a Muslim woman on the subject of coercive hijab-wearing (or a study) would do the trick. When I come across one of those, I will have "heard of it". Otherwise the proposition strikes me as pure speculation. :)
 
Tiapan

Tiapan

Grumpy Old Man
I'm afraid I must fully agree with the following article, I could not have put it better myself.

It's not a matter of choice an article by Houzan Mahmoud on Veil issue in UK Monday, 05 May 2008 20:07
It's not a matter of choice an article by Houzan Mahmoud on Veil issue in UK

More than ever, women are claiming that wearing the veil, burqa or niqab is their own decision. I totally reject this view.
The veil is not merely a piece of "cloth", but a sign of the oppression of women, control over their sexuality, submissiveness to the will of God or a man. The veil is a banner of political Islam used, to segregate women born by historical accident in the so-called "Islamic World" from other women in the rest of the world.
I could never have imagined having anything in common with Jack Straw, but I find myself in agreement with him about how it feels talking to a woman covered up in hijab or the "niqab" that covers women fully.
However, I think he has discovered this rather late; in fact, the whole British government is late in drawing attention to this growing phenomenon. Women covering up their entire bodies, young boys becoming suicide bombers and the ever growing demands of religious organisations in the UK to implement Islamic sharia law when it comes to "Muslim family affairs".
Jack Straw's government has always been proud of its "multicultural society", in which all kinds of backward and anti-human cultures are respected and given space by the state. Women from an Islamic background will be among the most oppressed.
Celebrating "different cultures" the existence of mosques and religious schools is a place for brainwashing the young people with Islamic values which can only produce political Islamists.
A ghettoised lifestyle, isolated communities, lack of integration and institutionalised racism are all part and parcel of this growing number of brain-washed young generation of girls and boys defining themselves by their religious identity.
Political Islamists are seeking to unify youth from a variety of backgrounds around the project of a "jihad" under which the whole world will be dominated and ruled according to the "ethics" of Sharia law.
More than ever I hear many women claiming that wearing the veil, burqa or niqab is their own choice. I totally reject this view. Not wearing the veil can create harsh problems for women - if it doesn't cost them their life, as in Iraq, it can cost them long-term isolation from their community, with those considered "loose women" having less chance of getting a "decent marriage", and less chance of going out and entering education. When a family sees this as a threat to their "honour", it can have disastrous consequences. The policies of cultural relativism have claimed the lives of many women in the UK, with their killers not properly brought to justice because "culture" and "religion" are taken into account by the courts. Women's rights are universal. A criminal must be sentenced according to the law, not on religious and cultural grounds.
Imagine if a girl has been told to wear the veil from as early as four or five years old, where is the choice in this? If you are born and open your eyes in an environment that imposes Islamic values, norms and lifestyles, alienated from the rest of society, how easy is it to make another choice? I understand why girls would veil, but I cannot see it as anything other than a solitary confinement prison.
The government's endless funding to promote religious activities and run religious schools must be ended. We need a secular education system: universal standards must be applied to all schools and educational institutions. I want my daughter to learn about the wealth of human art, literature, music and science, not religion and the joys of "different religious cultures". Children know no colour, race or religious segregation; they are all friends and part of the same community - until parents impose their beliefs on them.
The veil should be banned for under-aged girls and children must be protected from abusive - yes, that is right, abusive - parents who seek to impose their religion on them.
Having a society free from politicised religion is the precondition for women's freedom and progress. In the west where religion has been pushed back and separated from the state, we see women are more free and equal to men as compared to the countries where Islam is dominant.
In Iraq we have witnessed widespread terror and violence against women who refuse to wear the veil. In Iraq the veil is being imposed at gunpoint - the only choice women are offered is to obey.
In Iran women are lashed or sometimes stoned to death for expressing their simple right to exercise human desires. The Islamic Republic has been repressing women for almost three decades now. Afghanistan, Sudan, Somalia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia: we witness how women's oppression and terror against women is top priority for every Islamic regime, whatever its stripe.
Therefore: the veil is not merely a piece of cloth, but a political statement, the banner of a political movement, political Islam, in the Middle East, Europe and worldwide. We must take a firm stand against this by demanding secular laws, secular education and equality for all.
Religion must be privatised! Religion is a personal matter and should not be brought into everyday life. Criticising all religions is our right; freedom of expression should not be compromised.
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Cheers
 
H

Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
TheKnight said:
I think that makes sense...BUT



as Tiapan implied, in Muslim countries women don't necessarily have a choice to wear the veil.

Here, that's fine. I don't think anyone in America believes that American women who wear a veil are being suppressed.
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Yeah, I noticed that was an issue in the article. The woman who opposed the idea that the veil is not inherently sexist was attacked by the woman who felt they were and named many countries where this is an issue, dispite the fact that the previous woman (wolf was it?) had specifically said her article was related the the area's she'd visited, many of them being more western countries. The woman who attacked the veil issue was obviously quite immature.
 
Aquitaine

Aquitaine

Well-Known Member
My "issue" with the Hijab is not what it is, but the fact that in many cases it's forced upon Women to wear, and they're not allowed to take it off. Ideally-speaking, there's nothing wrong with a Woman wearing a Hijab, which is basically just a headscarf, I'm sure many Women love to wear it and do so out of personal choice, but I don't like it how a lot fo them are forced to wear it.

The same would apply to Nun's outifts too, I think they're an eye-sore, but if they wear it out of personal choice and arn't forced, then meh..... fair enough.

However, generally speaking I do have a problem with the Niqab, I don't think it should be worn at all, atleast not in public. If you wanna play dress-up in your own home, then be my guest.
 
Yerda

Yerda

Veteran Member
Paul Rusco said:
However, generally speaking I do have a problem with the Niqab, I don't think it should be worn at all, atleast not in public. If you wanna play dress-up in your own home, then be my guest.
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I don't think men should wear pink shirts, myself.
 
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