So, would it be your suspicion that some very large majority of those in US prisons today, who claim to hold to one religion or another, do not, and are just faking it for the perks?
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If Religions are Entirely Bogus, Why are so Many Good People Religious?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
Religions are only very rarely "true" or "false" as such. They exist as human practices and sources of motivation and inspiration.
More to the point, precisely because they make little rational sense they tend to be rather antifragile, or at least resilient; most cultures will go out of their ways in order to forgive and forget any missteps from religious activities, among other reasons because they are a significant source of social (and often political) cohesion and many people are simply not prepared to do without them.
The result is that there is a lot of sincere (and sometimes not so sincere) effort and cooperation put in most religions. That by its turn can easily be inspiring and motivate people to pursue their better selves.
Terry Sampson
Well-Known Member
I don't how strong I want to say my suspicion is, but ... yeah, that's my suspicion.
Our gardener is an ex-con who was by his own admission, an addict before he was put into jail. My wife's family has known him since he was little kid. He told me that, as a former addict, he was required to participate in NA (Narcotics Anonymous) sessions during parole after getting out. He used to go to NA meetings offered through Victory Outreach, a non-denominational Christian out-reach service catering to recovering addicts and ex-cons. He walked in on a drug-deal going down between the Pastor and a couple other folks, and managed to use that to his advantage in getting positive reports to his parole officer.
Another former neighbor, now in jail again, got out of prison and managed to get into Los Angeles' Catholic priest, Father Boyle's, "Home Boys" Program which runs a Bakery, Second-hand Furniture, Appliance, and Clothing store, and offers some training in each. That guy was a slug before he went in, a weasel while in, and a genuine reprobate, ... still is for all I know, if he hasn't gotten himself killed. He used his "claim" to having gotten religion on anybody that he thought would buy it, including me and my wife. I bought it at first and discovered that he was more clever than I was, about $1,000.00 later.
That's two anecdotes. I generalize from those, ... indubitably more than I should. Shame on me.
leov
Well-Known Member
Book of the Dead - Wikipedia
That is why
That is why
Dell
Asteroid insurance?
It's not hard to understand why. The awe and wonders of Life, the beauty of nature, the crazy order of everything to sustain life on a planet and odds of biogenesis and incomprehensible grasp of billions of years... One would naturally think there is more to just existing for the moment.
One has to learn the reality of nature and history of life not imagine its meaning.
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
Because "rationality" is an illusion. We don't make as much sense as we think we do.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
How do you actually know they are all "good"? People are always a blend of good and bad....some more good, some more bad.
Besides, how does the behavior of the people who believe an idea have bearing on the truthfulness of the idea?
Jim
Nets of Wonder
If you see someone actually practicing what they say they believe in, and you see what might be some good results from doing that, that might be a reason to try it, or at least find out more about it.
Jim
Nets of Wonder
The premise, that all religions make no rational sense, looks false to me, but in any case, I don’t see any reason to think that there is any correlation between how rational a person is according to popular thinking in anti-faith circles, and how moral they are from any point of view.
The golden rule of all religions is:
na tat parasya saṁdadhyāt pratikūlaṁ yad ātmanaḥ.
eṣa saṁkṣepato dharmaḥ kāmād anyaḥ pravartate.
eṣa saṁkṣepato dharmaḥ kāmād anyaḥ pravartate.
- One should never do that to another which one regards as injurious to one’s own self. This, in brief, is the rule of dharma. Other behaviour is due to selfish desires.
...
I would expect more than 50% of religious people to be at least aware of the golden rule and at least some of them able to practise it.
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A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
I don't know... I tend to think of the vast majority of Christians that I have met to be just "mediocre." They aren't really "good" per se, but they certainly aren't "bad." I definitely think they are ALL confused as hell, and can't maintain a moment's rationality when it comes to defending "the faith." I have definitely met what I would call some genuinely "good" people who hail as Christian, and I know about the "bad," but honestly haven't met too many of them myself. Haven't run into any of the pedophiles, or the ones that end up on the news or in public depositions having milked their congregations for millions. The most "bad" I've probably met are the salesy types, and the "Faith healers" and the high and mighty types. Kind of like the "misdemeanors" of religious stupidity here in the U.S. I have yet to actually meet any of the "felons" though.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
I am religious
No-one on this forum has established that I have "crazy ideas."
Don't have much comradeship, I am afraid
And peer pressure is for secular things like drugs, alcohol, per-marrital and non-marriage sex etc..
Maybe some of your ideas seem crazy to others, the limits you set on peer pressure for example.
So you say you have never had a friend to talk to and guide you in your religious path?
Actually peer pressure can be any action your peers consider the thing. Eg, "lets all go to the park", "lets go to church" etc
firedragon
Veteran Member
He carried a gun
but he was a priest
starving children
behind this beast
Gun was to save
not to kill a mammal
Of love and overkeen
saint not animal
You don't need to believe there is a heavenly police officer in order to realize the reasons why being good in a society brings greater reward than having everyone reject you. It's call socialization. There is a good reason we evolved that all on our own before religion was superimposed over it. It's for our survival. We evolved to be social creatures, and those who don't socialize and cooperate with others don't get the benefits of it. They starve.
This worries me. This worries me when I hear people say the only reason they don't hurt other people is because they are afraid of getting caught. This is not morality at all. That is amorality. Most normal people are good, because being good is more beneficial to everyone, themselves included, than being a criminal.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Some facts.
In 1900 many people thought that the 20th Century would be the first time when
there would be little religion or monarchy to spoil the age with their tyranny and
religious wars.
As it turned out about quarter of a billion people died in secular wars, driven
largely by dictators.
Stalin studied for the priesthood
Hitler's mother was a Catholic
Mao Tsu Tung was a Buddhist
Pol Pot was a Bhuddhist
These four, and many like them, studied the new holy texts of nationalism,
socialism, Marxism and racism.
PureX
Veteran Member
The point being that religion was never the instigator of all that inhumanity. It was just an easy excuse for it.
Yeah, clairvoyance is cool eh?
They studied the holy texts of their religion. Stalin for sample, after the revolution rebiult the church to remove to new model and return it to its roots.
Hitler had the backing of the Vatican.
Regarding the two Buddhists, do you have any idea the sort of long term abuse that can bend a Buddhist so far out of shape.
Oh and pol pot studied as catholic school.
So 3 of the 4 had a christian education. That tells me much
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Don't think you need to be a clairvoyance to see what will become of the
world when it dispenses with moral codes. See my profile below - I can
tell you we are about 20 years from polygamy being the hot button issue.
Was Pol Pot a Catholic? I didn't know that. I understand he went to France
and studied Marxism.
I have no idea what you are talking about in reference to Stalin - he had
many Greek Orthodox clergy murdered, and pulled down many churches,
including the major one in Moscow.
during the "Great War" he certainly gave support to the Orthodox Church
as he needed their backing.
Hitler and Vatican are problematic. Regardless of how the Pope handled
the Nazi phenomena, and at the what stage he did so (many normal people
supported the early Nazis) but Hitler's later policies were definitely violated
Catholic doctrines.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Exactly, and a poor excuse at that. Usually this excuse invoked Judaism and
the Old Testament - nothing in Christianity would help their cause.