No Jesus? Now What?

Trailblazer · Jul 17, 2019

Hockeycowboy said:
So, a man who never existed, has had a major influence on hundreds of countries, and billions of people within 2,000 years?

I don't think so.

Don't try to use logic on these people.

“When a movement fundamentally religious makes a weak nation strong, changes a nondescript tribal people into a mighty and powerful civilization, rescues them from captivity and elevates them to sovereignty, transforms their ignorance into knowledge and endows them with an impetus of advancement in all degrees of development—(this is not theory, but historical fact)—it becomes evident that religion is the cause of man’s attainment to honor and sublimity.” Bahá’í World Faith, p. 272

“What then is the mission of the divine prophets? Their mission is the education and advancement of the world of humanity. They are the real teachers and educators, the universal instructors of mankind. If we wish to discover whether any one of these great souls or messengers was in reality a prophet of God we must investigate the facts surrounding His life and history; and the first point of our investigation will be the education He bestowed upon mankind. If He has been an educator, if He has really trained a nation or people, causing it to rise from the lowest depths of ignorance to the highest station of knowledge, then we are sure that He was a prophet. This is a plain and clear method of procedure, proof that is irrefutable. We do not need to seek after other proofs.” Bahá’í World Faith, p. 273

Hockeycowboy · Jul 17, 2019

QuestioningMind said:
Except for the 2000 year part you could be talking about Santa Claus. Guess that means the jolly old elf actually does exist. Who'd a thunk?

I have to say, that's good reasoning ...to a point. Santa Claus is apparently based on a real person:

"The modern Santa Claus grew out of traditions surrounding the historical Saint Nicholas (a fourth-century Greek bishop and gift-giver of Myra)" -- Wikipedia.

But I also quantified my statement, by saying he 'influenced countries and people.'

i don't think that could be said of Santa Claus...or the Tooth fairy, etc.

You are a good thinker, wish I could talk w/ you face to face! (If we could be civil to each other, that is.)

Proverbs 27:17. We could "sharpen" one another!

wizanda · Jul 18, 2019

Skwim said:
Why?

It is irrational in modern times to think having some form of religion is optional...We all have an understanding of our reality, and the practices we do.

We don't have evidence for many ancient claims, yet it doesn't stop us questioning the ethics, and morality.

The idea so many people are illogical, and follow the lies that are made up about Yeshua still exists, even if he did not; therefore prophecy is still shown fulfilled by the results, not the cause alone.

In my opinion.

Skwim · Jul 18, 2019

wizanda said:
It is irrational in modern times to think having some form of religion is optional...We all have an understanding of our reality, and the practices we do.

I don't know. I opted out of religion some time ago, and I know others who have opted to adopt a religion. So :shrug:

.

JJ50 · Jul 18, 2019

Even if it could be proved with no shadow of a doubt Jesus and god have never existed, some would still believe in them.

Mock Turtle · Jul 18, 2019

Hockeycowboy said:
So, a man who never existed, has had a major influence on hundreds of countries, and billions of people within 2,000 years?

I don't think so.

He may have existed but any reality surrounding his existence might also have been distorted so as to promulgate a certain popular message. Is that so unbelievable too? Perhaps we are too ready to assume that those in past ages were just like us, when they might be if they had the same knowledge that we mostly have - but they didn't. And they also didn't have the same sorts of freedoms we seem to expect these days. Hence, how they lived and were fed information from those with more power (often by word of mouth), might have done more than anything else to spread such beliefs - if it suited them.

Belief in Christ is not the only player on the planet. Not notice this?

BilliardsBall · Jul 18, 2019

Skwim said:
.

I came upon this question on a YouTube video and thought I'd pass it along..

"What if archeological evidence came to light showing that Jesus never existed. Moreover, the evidence is clear that no one even like Jesus ever existed. There was no prophesied Messiah.

Would you

1. Go on believing in him

2. Switch to a Judaism

3. Look elsewhere for spiritual support

4. Drop religion altogether

Why?

.

Can you give an example of this archaeological evidence? You mean like a Roman statue of Jesus Christ with the inscription, Non Est? Do you think it is likely we will find such an intriguing sculpture? Why or why not?

Quintessence · Jul 18, 2019

JJ50 said:
Even if it could be proved with no shadow of a doubt Jesus and god have never existed, some would still believe in them.

And why not? Most religions hinge far more on mythos than they do logos. It's not about physical proofs and facts, it's about story and meaning and culture.

ImmortalFlame · Jul 18, 2019

Hockeycowboy said:
If Jesus never existed, IOW, never gave His perfect life as a ransom....

then humans will always be dying, and probably destroy themselves -- and a good chance the Earth, too -- within the next 200 years.

Honestly, I don't know what I would do. I do know that I'd have to examine that "evidence", myself.

I am genuinely a bit shocked that it took 29 posts to get the first actual answer to the entirely hypothetical question posed in the OP, seen above.

Why are so many people so defensive that they can't even entertain a simple, hypothetical scenario?

wizanda · Jul 18, 2019

Skwim said:
I opted out of religion some time ago, and I know others who have opted to adopt a religion.

People can't opted out of religion, it automatically exists as a construct of society; so we have morality laws based on common religious ethics, regardless if we believe them or not.

In my opinion.

Skwim · Jul 18, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
Can you give an example of this archaeological evidence? You mean like a Roman statue of Jesus Christ with the inscription, Non Est? Do you think it is likely we will find such an intriguing sculpture? Why or why not?

It's only a "WHAT IF" proposition.

.

Skwim · Jul 18, 2019

wizanda said:
People can't opted out of religion, it automatically exists as a construct of society;

Maybe I misunderstand what you mean by "opted out," but I take it as choosing not to do something. And as an agnostic, who doesn't align himself or participate in any religion I can't see how I haven't opted out of all religions.

.

Jainarayan · Jul 18, 2019

Hockeycowboy said:
So, a man who never existed, has had a major influence on hundreds of countries, and billions of people within 2,000 years?

I don't think so.

Yep... this right here.

Homer, Confucius, Lao tze, Krishna may never have existed, but whoever or whatever they were, or wrote the things attributed to them left a big mark on the world.

QuestioningMind · Jul 18, 2019

Hockeycowboy said:
I have to say, that's good reasoning ...to a point. Santa Claus is apparently based on a real person:

"The modern Santa Claus grew out of traditions surrounding the historical Saint Nicholas (a fourth-century Greek bishop and gift-giver of Myra)" -- Wikipedia.

But I also quantified my statement, by saying he 'influenced countries and people.'

i don't think that could be said of Santa Claus...or the Tooth fairy, etc.

You are a good thinker, wish I could talk w/ you face to face! (If we could be civil to each other, that is.)

Proverbs 27:17. We could "sharpen" one another!

But I also quantified my statement, by saying he 'influenced countries and people.'

I beg to differ. There are children in countries all across the world who are heavily influence by the mythical Claus. And I once heard an advertising expert claim that the original Coke ads featuring Santa heavily influenced the future of advertising throughout the globe.

sealchan · Jul 18, 2019

Skwim said:
.

I came upon this question on a YouTube video and thought I'd pass it along..

"What if archeological evidence came to light showing that Jesus never existed. Moreover, the evidence is clear that no one even like Jesus ever existed. There was no prophesied Messiah.

Would you

1. Go on believing in him

2. Switch to a Judaism

3. Look elsewhere for spiritual support

4. Drop religion altogether

Why?

.

This question is addressed in Nikos Kazantzakis' "The Last Temptation of Christ" which has Paul talking to a Jesus who, in a dream, allowed himself down off of the cross to experience the life of an ordinary man.

Jesus, surrounded by his two wives and many children, meets Paul preaching about the risen Christ and confronts him saying, "That's not true! I was let down from the cross. I am an ordinary man." Paul argues that that is irrelevant. People need the risen Jesus "and if I have to resurrect him myself I will do that" meaning he will tell a false story if it speaks to what people need to hear in their want and suffering. Paul says to Jesus, "I'm glad I met you...now I can forget you".

IMO Christian's today must develop their faith to just such an extent, that the lie of historicity be abandoned and the inner truth be found.

Riders · Jul 18, 2019

Skwim said:
.

I came upon this question on a YouTube video and thought I'd pass it along..

"What if archeological evidence came to light showing that Jesus never existed. Moreover, the evidence is clear that no one even like Jesus ever existed. There was no prophesied Messiah.

Would you

1. Go on believing in him

2. Switch to a Judaism

3. Look elsewhere for spiritual support

4. Drop religion altogether

Why?

.

Its the same decision I make now because I believe this is already happened. Christians choose not to believe the facts that the Pagan Christ theory has merit and for what I believe has proven the God man belief of Jesus as BS they still go on believing.

But I choose to explore other religions and practice Zen meditation

Sand Dancer · Jul 18, 2019

Hockeycowboy said:
So, a man who never existed, has had a major influence on hundreds of countries, and billions of people within 2,000 years?

I don't think so.

It was what was written about him that most people like. Few actually knew him. At most it was some people in small towns for 1-3 years in history.

Stanyon · Jul 19, 2019

Islam also speaks of Jesus, would it not render it false?

wizanda · Jul 19, 2019

Skwim said:
And as an agnostic, who doesn't align himself or participate in any religion I can't see how I haven't opted out of all religions.

To be completely none religiously indoctrinated you'd need to be raised away from all known ideas, otherwise your misunderstanding of there being a Source to our reality is based on religious concepts.

If you don't celebrate any religious holidays, perform or think any religious ideas, such as eat meat, get married, drink alcohol, etc, then we could claim you're not religious.

Take into account religion originally was the architecture of society, the reason we have a statutory law system is because of what people like Moses, Muhammad created.

With your question about Yeshua not existing, even if he did not, people who reject something taking place, are still involved by choosing to ignore facts...

So the Curse of Moses is still happening, regardless if Yeshua even existed, and the idea people don't question their reality, is all choosing a religious disposition.

It's like this as a simple example, according to what is there in the Bible Yeshua came to put manure around Judah, and see who steps in it; you're like there is no manure as you've never seen it, the point is people still are walking in it, and it stinks regardless if you choose not to look or smell it.

In my opinion.

shivsomashekhar · Jul 19, 2019

Hockeycowboy said:
So, a man who never existed, has had a major influence on hundreds of countries, and billions of people within 2,000 years?

I don't think so.

Your position demonstrates ignorance of how religion propagates and prevails.

The influence of Christianity came from the patronage of powerful rules, countless zealous evangelists, crusaders, etc.

Just like the success of Buddhism cannot simply be credited to the Buddha. Buddhism became popular and influential for the same reasons mentioned above. And in theory, Buddhism could have achieved its present status even if Buddha was fictional. All it would taken was some clever imagination, impactful writing and a strong emperor adopting it.

No Jesus? Now What?

If Jesus Was Found To Have Never Existed I'd

Go on believing in him

Switch to a Judaism

Look elsewhere for spiritual support

Drop religion altogether

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