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I want to learn more about the Libertarian perspective. Looking for sources!

Quetzal

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
I came across this video and I enjoyed watching it. It occurred to me that I don't know much about it:


Does anyone else have some good vids explaining this political wing? Tagging our in-house libertarian @Revoltingest.
 
`mud

`mud

Just old
Premium Member
Makes good sense......

Who's in charge......that guy with the good voice ?

That's why I like my stuff, and my Stuff
Other than missing and still loving my Wife,
I've got all of that !
:praying:
 
mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Quetzal said:
I came across this video and I enjoyed watching it. It occurred to me that I don't know much about it:


Does anyone else have some good vids explaining this political wing? Tagging our in-house libertarian @Revoltingest.
Click to expand...

I can do it, if you want. I am rather good at critical analysis of all ideologies, even my own and I can point out the problems even with welfare state even do I believe in it.

Regards
Mikkel
 
joe1776

joe1776

Well-Known Member
I think Libertarianism is fundamentally flawed because a society is essentially a cooperative venture, and as such, whenever the rights of the individual conflict with the welfare of the group, the group's welfare must prevail. So, the cooperative individual citizen must trade in some rights for the greater benefits offered by the cooperative effort.

The idea that the state should not infringe on individual rights unless the group's welfare is at stake is, of course, granted.
 
Quetzal

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
mikkel_the_dane said:
I can do it, if you want. I am rather good at critical analysis of all ideologies, even my own and I can point out the problems even with welfare state even do I believe in it.

Regards
Mikkel
Click to expand...
My question is how does the Libertarian perspective deal with something like the pandemic? Should personal liberty still reign supreme even though it has a direct link to the welfare of others?
 
PureX

PureX

Veteran Member
Pretty much every libertarian I've ever come across has been a clueless idiot. Sorry. They live in some weird fantasy-land where lawlessness does NOT equate to limitless abuse, exploitation, death and destruction. They imagine that somehow, magically, people will respect each other's rights and possessions without the rule of law, in spite of the sum of all human history clearly showing that it's an invalid ideal.

The goal of a sane, effective, life-affirming society is not to eliminate as many laws as possible. That's the goal of a society of criminals, and idiots. The goal of a sane, civil society is to balance our individual freedom with our responsibility to each other's (collective) well-being.

COLLECTIVE WELL-BEING

This is the big buggidy-boo for the entirety of the "conservative" right in our current society - in all it's idiotic manifestations, including 'libertarians'. The idea of being held responsible by anyone, in any way, for the well-being of anyone but themselves, appalls them. Angers them. Drives them into blinding fits of rage, and disgust, and mindless violence.The mere sight of the word "collective" causes their heads to spin around on their necks like possessed school girls. And to infer that they should feel beholding to a human collective puts them WAY over the edge!

Complete idiots, everyone of them. Sorry.
 
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mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Quetzal said:
My question is how does the Libertarian perspective deal with something like the pandemic? Should personal liberty still reign supreme even though it has a direct link to the welfare of others?
Click to expand...

The devil is in the detail.
From the link: "...the only actions that should be forbidden by law are those that involve the initiation of force against those who have not themselves used force-actions like murder, rape, robbery, kidnapping, and fraud."

You will find Libertarians, who use very narrow definitions of these and those who have a wider understanding of this.

Let me give you an example. You have a river and at the top of the river, the owner of the part river there dumps toxic waste into the river. Is that covered by the above quote? You can in effect ask the same question in regards to a pandemic and you will get different answers.
Here is another variant. An aunt is the trustee and legal heir to her underage nephew. She checks up on him and he has slipped in the bath and is now drowning. She does nothing and he drowns and she inherits him. Is that covered by the above quote?

There are more. One variant of libertarian thinking is the trader principle: The trader principle is a recognition of the fact that the most effective way of gaining values from others is not by deception or theft, but by trading value for value to the mutual benefit of both parties. Does that cover children and if yes, how does that apply?

This has nothing to do with libertarian ideology as such. You can find problems in all ideologies, because in effect there are no perfect ideologies or economical systems. They just benefit different people differently.
 
mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
PureX said:
...

Complete idiots, everyone of them. Sorry.
Click to expand...

Please stop that. Some of the more sane of them actually are aware of some of the problems inherent in libertarian ideology. The joke is that when they try to fix those they end up relying on more and more government.
 
PureX

PureX

Veteran Member
mikkel_the_dane said:
Please stop that. Some of the more sane of them actually are aware of some of the problems inherent in libertarian ideology. The joke is that when they try to fix those they end up relying on more and more government.
Click to expand...
The joke is that they are too stupid to see the inevitability of that result from the entirety of human history, and NOT be libertarians, but be socialists, instead. :)
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
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mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Revoltingest said:
@Quetzal.....
I have a tip for you.
Don't listen to the anti-libertarians.
Asking for their views of libertarians is rather
analogous to asking for Elmer Gantry's opinion of atheists.

I recommend....
Libertarian Party
Click to expand...

Yeah, About the Libertarian Party
...
Libertarians strongly oppose any government interference into their personal, family, and business decisions. Essentially, we believe all Americans should be free to live their lives and pursue their interests as they see fit as long as they do no harm to another.

Founded in 1971, we run many hundreds of candidates every election cycle. These candidates seek positions ranging from City Council to President of the United States. Each of these candidates helps to give liberty a voice.


THE LIBERTARIAN OPTION
Consider voting Libertarian or joining the Libertarian Party because…

  • We seek to substantially reduce the size and intrusiveness of government and cut and eliminate taxes at every opportunity.
  • We believe that peaceful, honest people should be able to offer their goods and services to willing consumers without inappropriate interference from government.
  • We believe that peaceful, honest people should decide for themselves how to live their lives, without fear of criminal or civil penalties.
  • We believe that government’s only responsibility, if any, should be protecting people from force and fraud.
Click to expand...

That is all nice sounding warm fuzzy words. They break down when they meet reality.
In effect they believe in a kind of people that are angels and rational. It is a form of idealism.
 
Father Heathen

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Libertarianism means economically conservative and socially liberal; i.e. less government control and more personal freedom in all aspects.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
There's a right v a left libertarian approach, whereas the left wants liberty for all but the right only cares about themselves.
 
Windwalker

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Revoltingest said:
Who doesn't claim to have ideals?
The real question is....
Which ideals suit oneself?
Click to expand...
Idealism is different the just having ideals. Number 1 definition: the practice of forming or pursuing ideals, especially unrealistically. "the idealism of youth"

Is Libertarianism an attainable and sustainable ideal? No. It's unrealistic. Pie in the sky sort of fantasy, which assumes everyone will choose the right thing, without harm to others. While that may be the case in an Enlightened world, 99% of humans are not there yet. Remove all restraints of the present order, and watch what happens. It won't take long for it to all fall apart. Might makes right, and warlords will assume rule. Now your freedom is toasted underneath the warlord and his rules.
 
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