Proof of Islam?

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

The greatest desire of most believers of any religion is for a sense of community, and belonging. This question can be asked of believers of any religion. The desire is strongest for those raised in faith as in any religion. Islam has some appeal to recognizing Judaism, Christianity as progressive continuum of evolving belief.

For Islam like Judaism and Christianity I am inclined to the mystical side and have more empathy for this identity. In my view the shows that are the most comfortable are the shows that do not fit.

I am looking forward to the perspective of believers.

I don't get much of that sense of community when I'm being harangued for my views, beliefs, and practices by various believers from various religions, who seem to treat me much better if I simply deny belonging to any of their cliques or clubs. That is to say, I've found that in my case and interviewed others who have reported, Islam is for many sincere believers a solitary path unless they conform to the aggressive and forceful demands and imagined requirements of their nominal peers. So if a Muslim looks to be smacking their bearded lip with excitement at the prospect of controlling someone and pressuring them to do things one doesn't subscribe to, I've found that they do not feel as much of a way to criticize or impose upon people if one simply denies having anything to do with their Islam and pretends to be of another religion or no religion. It seems to be a similar thing in some ways with radicals in every denomination, particularly online where they might fear getting struck for their behavior less. I therefor also greatly envy the sense of "community" and "family" and "belonging" anyone may feel in their variousm chosen cultus, a warmth I only feel in being covered by my books instead.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

What might be an interesting exercise would be be for you to examine the reasons why you think Christianity is the "right" religion, and then see if they would be any more persuasive, to an impartial observer, than the muslim ones.

I think that is a great idea! Can you give a practical step by step rundown with examples of how one might do this? Or regarding your own beliefs as an example? I'd like to understand how to perform what you described but I require more specific details and examples to really grasp how to do it!

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

As for the "blind faith" comment, I think nothing really should require "blind faith" and the "vision" of why something is real, true, or right should be established by at the very least clear and sensible reasoning and necessity and pragmatic value.

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't get much of that sense of community when I'm being harangued for my views, beliefs, and practices by various believers from various religions, who seem to treat me much better if I simply deny belonging to any of their cliques or clubs. That is to say, I've found that in my case and interviewed others who have reported, Islam is for many sincere believers a solitary path unless they conform to the aggressive and forceful demands and imagined requirements of their nominal peers. So if a Muslim looks to be smacking their bearded lip with excitement at the prospect of controlling someone and pressuring them to do things one doesn't subscribe to, I've found that they do not feel as much of a way to criticize or impose upon people if one simply denies having anything to do with their Islam and pretends to be of another religion or no religion. It seems to be a similar thing in some ways with radicals in every denomination, particularly online where they might fear getting struck for their behavior less. I therefor also greatly envy the sense of "community" and "family" and "belonging" anyone may feel in their variousm chosen cultus, a warmth I only feel in being covered by my books instead.

This an extreme aggressive view of any religion including Islam. The Muslims of the world are a diverse cultural bunch with a common bond of Islam. I do not judge any particular religion, but of course, I do condemn the extreme views in any religion. Most Muslims of the world simply live their lives as Muslims.

 

[Bear Wild]

Hello,

I am interested in finding out why Muslims believe Islam is the right religion, and discussing these points.
Alternatively, non-Muslims who have an idea as to why Muslims have this belief.

There are almost 2 billion Muslims, so there must be a reason they believe, however I have searched many different places and can’t find a reason I can accept.

Any reasons welcome, but especially if anyone has reasons which are more uncommon, as I have looked at the more common ones already.

This is coming from a Christian standpoint.

Thank you.

I do not know enough about Islam to answer what you are asking but the wolf is important in my religion. Just curious how you identify with it.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I do not know enough about Islam to answer what you are asking but the wolf is important in my religion. Just curious how you identify with it.

Me too! I'd love to know that from them as well as you! What is your religion and how is it that you identify with the fox or whatever animals and symbols you may and find yourself using such self-identifications?

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

This an extreme aggressive view of any religion including Islam. The Muslims of the world are a diverse cultural bunch with a common bond of Islam. I do not judge any particular religion, but of course, I do condemn the extreme views in any religion. Most Muslims of the world simply live their lives as Muslims.

I think that is correct! Its the very small minority that like to bark which make it extremely unpleasant sometimes online, and they are mainly from a Sunni sub-sect called Salafi. They will yell at a person for having their pant legs too low or a mustache and I really find them a despicable impediment to the religion, and I believe God has placed them in such positions particularly to frighten away people and create problems and questions so that only the very most devout might be able to continue to practice Islam despite their behavior and infiltration of so many places of worship. I have every right to hate them too, because they have made praying in mosques both a nuisance and a threat in some places and make a fuss about every little thing, pant length, beard style or lack of beard, clothing, may they be obliterated off the face of this Earth for stopping people and meddling in their worship of God. You can see how much I really hate people who meddle and try to stop people from the worship of God as they do by their pettiness and petulant bullying across the globe. Maybe you've never encountered them online or offline. They are also a nuisance who create a lot of problems for females interested in Islam, but if a person is determined then they act as a strong test and many people will find more comfort in simply practicing their religion in privacy and away from these menacing runts.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I am genuinely looking for facts as to why I should believe in the Quran.

This is a different question entirely than asking someone why they believe.

In addition, if I were to ‘ditch the ‘I’’, the sentence wouldn’t make sense ; )

In regards to the question why someone believes, yes, you have to let go what "I" find acceptable because what "I" find acceptable is my own subjective standard. If you want to know why people believe, what you believe is entirely and utterly irrelevant.
If you want to know why you should, you probably already know there is nothing that will personally compel you to believe without something far more significant happening than an online discussion with random strangers.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

So, if God wills the wolf to worship in this particular fashion, then it could occur for no reason or some reason where suddenly it seems to make sense or they buy into it, and then they will find themselves willing to pursue it and successfully going forward, and will practice the 5 pillars.

The 5 or 6 or 7 pillars are basically All Encompassing Monotheistic Belief and Belief in Judgment and Justice, Good Deeds, Bad Deeds, and their consequences and results in The New World or Hell within the New World.

They will read the Qur'an as much as they are able and find themselves perhaps relaxed and entertained by it and very much soothed by it as I am. They can even open it at random and see what it says as it appears to some a "living book" which speaks to a person directly.

They will believe God Alone controls every nuance of experience if they are truly given understanding.

They will learn and perform the communicative and meditative exercise of Salat, the Islamic worship after they perform ablution and bodily cleansing and will keep their bodies cleansed throughout the day and after they go to the bathroom including washing their bummy and genitals thoroughly so that they are clean at all times almost like a cat. They will worship like the birds at the various times of the day, particularly the "gahs" or periods of the day that even the Zoroastrians knew of, before sunrise (fajr), noon (zuhr), afternoon (asr), after sunset (maghrib), and night (isha) and additionally the middle of the night but before fajr as an extra. Every prayer will hopefully lead to a sense of magical empowerment and peace and achievement and organize their days and constantly establish and re-establish a meditative rememberance and state of mind and interpreting even the mundane as the miraculous!

They will become charitable and kind and giving, first to kin and extending out and helping all those in need that they can, near to far, and give in all manner of Zakat in such a way that they can keep on helping. To do so is known as a loan, and the reward is believed to be given to those who are beneficent.

They will fast, and can start even now as Ramadan started just recently and they can fast a little extra for the days missed to catch all the days by not eating or drinking from slightly before sunrise to slightly after sunset.

They will perform the pilgrimage if they are able to when they are able to, and happily, to fulfil the task.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Also, if you look at the sorts of replies even in this thread, I put a lot more care and work into what I write to people

I do it all because I genuinely care, whereas other people writing here seem to offer very little. Plus, if they want to learn about Islam, there is probably no one better than me to learn it from

may they be obliterated off the face of this Earth for stopping people and meddling in their worship of God.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

lol yeah, I hate people who terrorize others for the length of their pant legs in relation to their ankles and I think that if they just miraculously went "poof" that the world would be a little more pleasant, just like if cancer went "poof" but alas!

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Also! Not one of you needs to hesitate in the worship of God as I mentioned above regarding the 5 pillars. If the word "Allah" or "Muhammed" is a stumbling block, or not knowing the words often repeated in the Salat performance, simply start by cleansing yourself and saying anything worshipful with any name you are directing as a reference to The Ultimate or "Whatever is Truly The Ultimate and Greatest" and do the motions, standing, bowing, prostrating in the kowtow position, kneeling, and you can even go ahead an fast, go ahead and be kind and charitable, and believe that there is only The Ultimate controlling all your experiences who alone is Free, Unconditioned.

Exchange the name Allah for any other name or epithet you find appropriate, and direct your mind and worship to what is Like Nothing and is the Responsible Generating and Eliminating Power.

Muhammed (Baphomet in Occitan) is said to be the one to deliver this particular message in the form of the Qur'an, but everything good or bad can be invested with meanings which remind one of and refer back to the Ultimate and Greatest.

So there is really nothing to hesitate about nor really even much of a "choice" to make.

Yet no one will be able to do so, or even perform those motions, or dedicate such to God by any name, except if God makes them do so. If God makes them do so, they may find themselves filled with the desire to do so and even going ahead and doing it, even without delays or excuses like not knowing the words yet!

It all counts and works towards the discipline and practice which can have pragmatic value as well!

 

[shunyadragon]

To add: No religion nor belief system can be proved.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Those who impede the worship of God:
"
They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to / hinder from the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members." Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein. "

Sample Surah (Partition or Chapter):
Quran in English - Clear and Easy to Read.

By Any Name:
" Say: "Call upon Allah, or call upon Rahman: by whatever name ye call upon Him, (it is well): for to Him belong the Most Beautiful Names. Neither speak thy Prayer aloud, nor speak it in a low tone, but seek a middle course between."

"
And (all) the Most Beautiful Names belong to Allah, so call on Him by them, and leave the company of those who belie or deny (or utter impious speech against) His Names. They will be requited for what they used to do. "

You can not Will it Except if God Wills you to will it:

" And you will not, unless (it be) that Allah wills, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists). "

"
Thy Lord bringeth to pass what He willeth and chooseth. They have never any choice. Glorified be Allah and Exalted above all that they associate (with Him)! "

What withholds you?:
"Here you are - those invited to spend in the cause of Allah - but among you are those who withhold [out of greed]. And whoever withholds only withholds [benefit] from himself; and Allah is the Free of need, while you are the needy. And if you turn away, He will replace you with another people; then they will not be the likes of you. "

"
Then has there not been a [single] city that believed so its faith benefited it except the people of Jonah? When they believed, We removed from them the punishment of disgrace in worldly life and gave them enjoyment for a time.

And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely. Then, [O Muhammad], would you compel the people in order that they become believers?
And it is not for a soul to believe except by the command/will of Allah, and He will place defilement upon those who will (be made to) not use reason.

Say, "Observe what is in the heavens and earth." But of no avail will be signs or warners to a people who do not believe
So do they wait except for like [what occurred in] the days of those who passed on before them? Say, "Then wait; indeed, I am with you among those who wait."
Then We will save our messengers and those who have believed. Thus, it is an obligation upon Us that We save the believers

Say, [O Muhammad], "O people, if you are in doubt as to my religion - then I do not worship those which you worship besides Allah ; but I worship Allah, who causes your death. And I have been commanded to be of the believers
And [commanded], 'Direct your face toward the religion, inclining to truth, and never be of those who associate others with Allah ;
And do not invoke besides Allah that which neither benefits you nor harms you, for if you did, then indeed you would be of the wrongdoers.'"
And if Allah should touch you with adversity, there is no remover of it except Him; and if He intends for you good, then there is no repeller of His bounty. He causes it to reach whom He wills of His servants. And He is the Forgiving, the Merciful

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

To add: No religion nor belief system can be proved.

Interesting. Can anything be proved? Do you consider anything "prove-able"? If so, what and how?

In an earlier post I linked to some writing on thingd I think are undeniably real, are they also things which can be denied in all honesty? For example, can anyone deny something vague like "there is stuff" or "there is experience"?

Two Logics One Miracup(s) - Pastebin.com

It helps me to refine it in case its somehow deniable stuff or you can find holes. Not the miracle stories, people can easily think I'm just lying or making up stories, but the logic stuff based on reality I wonder if that also is not provable stuff! Thank you in advance if you manage to take a look!

 

[robocop (actually)]

Hello,

I am interested in finding out why Muslims believe Islam is the right religion, and discussing these points.
Alternatively, non-Muslims who have an idea as to why Muslims have this belief.

There are almost 2 billion Muslims, so there must be a reason they believe, however I have searched many different places and can’t find a reason I can accept.

Any reasons welcome, but especially if anyone has reasons which are more uncommon, as I have looked at the more common ones already.

This is coming from a Christian standpoint.

Thank you.

Muslims are more likely to believe in UFOs.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Muslims are more likely to believe in UFOs.

Haha, that is true lol. How do you know that?

 

[blü 2]

Hello,

I am interested in finding out why Muslims believe Islam is the right religion, and discussing these points.
Alternatively, non-Muslims who have an idea as to why Muslims have this belief.

There are almost 2 billion Muslims, so there must be a reason they believe, however I have searched many different places and can’t find a reason I can accept.

Any reasons welcome, but especially if anyone has reasons which are more uncommon, as I have looked at the more common ones already.

This is coming from a Christian standpoint.

Thank you.

Would not the numbers of believers in the various versions of Islam and the numbers of believers in the various versions of Christianity ─ and so on through the various Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto &c beliefs, and the various indigenous religions of the Americas, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia and so on, all have the same source?

Namely the parents' culture?

My family was Christian in name and culture. We all knew the manners of going to church, though all of us except just possibly my father would have failed any test that required more than a one-liner to explain what "Christian" actually meant. It was a social status ─ a tribal status, if you like ─ as much as anything. Where I grew up, there was never any question of being offered a choice ─ there was never a moment when the Show came to town and actively promoted the idea that you had the option to choose your religion, or change it, or choose to doubt, or to unbelieve, all at once.

I don't know anywhere in the world where the government celebrates such choicemaking, instead of just letting it happen. In many non-Western countries, it can be a violation of the law, the crime of blasphemy, to change your religion or argue against it.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Would not the numbers of believers in the various versions of Islam and the numbers of believers in the various versions of Christianity ─ and so on through the various Hindu, Buddhist, Shinto &c beliefs, and the various indigenous religions of the Americas, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia and so on, all have the same source?

Namely the parents' culture?

My family was Christian in name and culture. We all knew the manners of going to church, though all of us except just possibly my father would have failed any test that required more than a one-liner to explain what "Christian" actually meant. It was a social status ─ a tribal status, if you like ─ as much as anything. Where I grew up, there was never any question of being offered a choice ─ there was never a moment when the Show came to town and actively promoted the idea that you had the option to choose your religion, or change it, or choose to doubt, or to unbelieve, all at once.

I don't know anywhere in the world where the government celebrates such choicemaking, instead of just letting it happen. In many non-Western countries, it can be a violation of the law, the crime of blasphemy, to change your religion or argue against it.

Great post! I was born into the Tribe and the things I believe seem to be a regional tradition even before Islam reached the people. I elaborated and continued out of my own interest and incorporated many elements from as many tribes as I could find.

Now I've got my turkey butt headress, my Celtic serpent bracelet, and my international lack of pants to represent my belonging to the tribe of Mankind, and simultaneously finding that Universalism only alienates one from separatists of every color, creed, and length.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Haha, that is true lol. How do you know that?

I was a Raelian. Now I'm LDS but maybe I'd like to be both if I could ever manage it.