Say Something Conciliatory to the “Other Side”

[Revoltingest]

Unless I'm mistaken, you're not anti-LGBT or pro-life, as tends to be the norm for most conservatives in the U.S.

Well, although I'm not a conservative, I still thought the thread
invited all to offer an olive branch to the other side. Both liberals
& cons are the other side to me (being neither).

I'm pro-everything (almost)....gay rights, gun rights, bodily
autonomy, abortion, religion, atheism.

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm pro-everything (almost)....gay rights, gun rights, bodily
autonomy, abortion, religion, atheism.

As am I, but what keeps me from being fully libertarian is that I think having everything privatized and for-profit is a horrible idea. Fire and police departments would be a ghoulish racket (just like our healthcare and prison systems already are).

 

[Revoltingest]

As am I, but what keeps me from being fully libertarian is that I think having everything privatized and for-profit is a horrible idea. Fire and police departments would be a ghoulish racket (just like our healthcare and prison systems already are).

Who says everything must be privatized?

In the real world, we have politics, government, & the populace we have.
The resulting system is rarely ever pure this or that philosophy. But one
can lean towards something. I'd like a more libertarian government &
economy than what we have...to the extent politically possible.
And so I'm a Libertarian...impurity of my & the party's agendas notwithstanding.

Btw, have you any familiarity with government run prisons? They too
are horrible. And even the private ones are overseen by government.
Putting any system in the hands of government is still ripe for corruption,
incompetence, brutality, & waste. And imperiousness thrives best when
government itself oversees a government run operation.
We must be ever vigilant.

 

[Revoltingest]

I've tossed bones to my liberal friends.
Now, to my fundie friends (usually conservative)....
I don't see believers as dumb or uneducated. Many are smarter & more
learned than I. We just disagree about things which don't exist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Whichever side of the political spectrum you are on, what are some things you will admit or concede to the other side?

What are some things we can ALL agree on? Could we all agree, for example, that polarization has gotten out of hand, and we need better ways of having political debates?

I would like to challenge all of us to really dig deep, and identify places where we agree, or are willing to acknowledge the other side has a good point even if we don’t fully agree.

I wish we could have more productive political debates. By that I mean, a debate where it is possible for one person to actually persuade another. Those are too rare these days. But they are the most enjoyable discussions.

For "the other side" in Canadian politics, I can usually acknowledge that they're trying to make the country and society better.

We sometimes disagree on the relative weight of different priorities and the methods to achieve it, but in general, I think we share the same overall motives.

For "the other side" in US politics, though, I can't concede this. IMO, the Republican party is basically fascist.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I don’t agree with some on the Left who want to abolish ICE. I agree with those on the Right (and most on the Left, incidentally) that as a country, we are entitled to control our own borders. Where I disagree with the Right is what seems to me to be a vacuum of empathy for the plight of undocumented immigrants - notwithstanding that we are not going to have 100% open borders.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don’t agree with some on the Left who want to abolish ICE. I agree with those on the Right (and most on the Left, incidentally) that as a country, we are entitled to control our own borders. Where I disagree with the Right is what seems to me to be a vacuum of empathy for the plight of undocumented immigrants - notwithstanding that we are not going to have 100% open borders.

ICE isn't about securing and controlling the borders; that's CBP.

 

[Heyo]

But the oligarchs are hurting us all, and we all need to band together and throw out any and all politicians who are in the pockets of the oligarchs.

I think that is something voters of all stripes can get behind. (At least some people may have voted for Trump because of his "drain the swamp" promise.) It is also something very few politicians from either side can get behind.

 

[Quintessence]

While I prefer the United States be open to and welcoming of immigrants, isolationist policies will probably be good for the country within the next couple of centuries. One thing that our present world-spanning environmental problems will cause is the need for mass human migrations on a scale we have never seen in human history. As the effects of climate change continue to become more significant, there will be more and more "climate refugees" around the world. Protecting our borders will become critical to preventing our lifeboat from sinking.

This is not, of course, why Republicans are pushing for isolationism and more border control. But their policies will end up having the same effect regardless.

 

[columbus]

Though the extremely partisan, racist, and sexist Hillary voters could not bring themselves to vote for Trump

Hillary was more partisan, racist, and sexist than Trump?

I voted for Hillary because the Democrats are far less of those things than than the Republicans. And she was the kind of viciously predatory Washington insider who could actually get things done in The Swamp.
Tom

 

[Quetzal]

Will folks on the Left admit that Hillary Clinton was a very problematic candidate with a lot of baggage? I will.

Me, too.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Whichever side of the political spectrum you are on, what are some things you will admit or concede to the other side?

I've lost interest in getting along with the American right.

What are some things we can ALL agree on? Could we all agree, for example, that polarization has gotten out of hand, and we need better ways of having political debates?

You won't be able to undo the polarization, which I expect to get worse. It's by design. It's how you distract a nation as you quietly go about a class war and take over a government so that they won't notice.

That's pretty much the answer to any question about how to make America right in any area that it has seen undesirable change over the last several decades. It's by the design of people that don't care what either conservative or liberal voters want. They control America now, and Americans will get what these people let them have. They benefit from the division and rancor. They'll concentrate wealth, power, and privilege as people bicker about Hillary and shoot one another up.

So, I'm not looking for America to correct any of its problems since they aren't problems to the people in control, and they won't allow anybody to "fix" anything. Racism will become worse, There will be more violence. There will be more bankruptcies and homelessness. The extreme weather will become more extreme. Infrastructure will continue to decay. Wars for profit will continue to be waged. Nothing is going to get better by design.

I am occasionally criticized for this pessimistic conclusion. I am told we need to have hope.

I don't need to have hope for America. I've learned to live without it. My goal isn't to be optimistic or pessimistic, but to be correct. I've already made major life changes based on these pessimistic judgments, now over twenty years old, and I think they were good changes. We don't live in America any more. Instead, we live among happy people that are largely apolitical, have better weather, and enjoy lower prices.

Literally, my very last experience in America, which was in April of 2011 at LAX, was unpleasant. I was cheated by the last American insurance company I made a claim within 2009. This is how I remember America, and why we've disengaged from it to the point we won't even visit.

I bought my wife a beautiful bouquet this week featuring sunflowers, a ginger plant, lilies, baby's breath, and mums for about $6 USD. The weather is 80 degrees F and sunny now at 11:30 AM in mid-February, just like about every other day.

And I owe this better life all to this pessimistic judgment about what was coming in America, without which, I'd likely still be there hoping things would turn around. I expect the differences between what I left and what I found to become even more extreme as time passes. False hope would not have been helpful.

Though the extremely partisan, racist, and sexist Hillary voters could not bring themselves to vote for Trump in 2016 because he was a man, white, and republican

Well, I don't vote in American elections any more and haven't since I was purged from the voting roles in two consecutive elections in the early 2000s, but my reasons for despising Trump aren't the ones you named. I find serial adulterer, self-admitted sexual predator, perpetual fraud, racist, non-stop liar, fascistic tendencies, and now murderer to be more relevant.

And yes, I am extremely partisan. I tend to frown on such things.

 

[BSM1]

Unless I'm mistaken, you're not anti-LGBT or pro-life, as tends to be the norm for most conservatives in the U.S.

Thinking in stereotypes probably causes the greatest division in our country,

 

[Revoltingest]

Thinking in stereotypes probably causes the greatest division in our country,

But isn't everyone true to the tribe assigned to them?

 

[Heyo]

Well hell, that there is going to bring us together.

Not at once. But maybe after some (heated?) discussion.

In the spirit of the OP I won't point out in detail what a dickweed statement this is.

I may be on the left but I'm neither soft nor an SJW or political correctness advocate. I like a clear word (which was also once a virtue of the conservatives). Just say it like it is. The current divide won't be overcome by holding hands and singing "Kumbaya". This needs some tough talk.

 

[columbus]

Trump is an anomaly, counter to the history of the party, he will pass.

I wish I could believe this, but I can't.

I've been seeing the Republicans drop their standards for decades. Standards for bipartisanship, standards for democracy, standards for putting American values first, standards for doing the right thing(however imperfect our imperfect system results in).

But I don't see that much anymore. From Richard Lugar to Mitt Romney, standing up for those things gets you branded RINO.

In another thread, a Trump supporter referred to the Democratic party as my party. It isn't by any means. It's just all I have left since the Republicans took a dive into becoming the party of divisiveness, corporate greed, attack ads, partisan power,

and now they don't even care about serious possibilities of treason as long as it's Trump. Trump has dropped the standards for the Republican party to new lows.
Tom

 

[Nakosis]

We all want freedom, we all want justice ,we all want compassion. The disagreement is how we go about achieving those goals.

I suspect if folks would stop trying to impune the morals of the opposing side we might find common ground. Politics has basically become the new religion of the masses.

Before we had religion to judge one another's moral character, now we have politics.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I've lost interest in getting along with the American right.



You won't be able to undo the polarization, which I expect to get worse. It's by design. It's how you distract a nation as you quietly go about a class war and take over a government so that they won't notice.

That's pretty much the answer to any question about how to make America right in any area that it has seen undesirable change over the last several decades. It's by the design of people that don't care what either conservative or liberal voters want. They control America now, and Americans will get what these people let them have. They benefit from the division and rancor. They'll concentrate wealth, power, and privilege as people bicker about Hillary and shoot one another up.

So, I'm not looking for America to correct any of its problems since they aren't problems to the people in control, and they won't allow anybody to "fix" anything. Racism will become worse, There will be more violence. There will be more bankruptcies and homelessness. The extreme weather will become more extreme. Infrastructure will continue to decay. Wars for profit will continue to be waged. Nothing is going to get better by design.

I am occasionally criticized for this pessimistic conclusion. I am told we need to have hope.

I don't need to have hope for America. I've learned to live without it. My goal isn't to be optimistic or pessimistic, but to be correct. I've already made major life changes based on these pessimistic judgments, now over twenty years old, and I think they were good changes. We don't live in America any more. Instead, we live among happy people that are largely apolitical, have better weather, and enjoy lower prices.

Literally, my very last experience in America, which was in April of 2011 at LAX, was unpleasant. I was cheated by the last American insurance company I made a claim within 2009. This is how I remember America, and why we've disengaged from it to the point we won't even visit.

I bought my wife a beautiful bouquet this week featuring sunflowers, a ginger plant, lilies, baby's breath, and mums for about $6 USD. The weather is 80 degrees F and sunny now at 11:30 AM in mid-February, just like about every other day.

And I owe this better life all to this pessimistic judgment about what was coming in America, without which, I'd likely still be there hoping things would turn around. I expect the differences between what I left and what I found to become even more extreme as time passes. False hope would not have been helpful.



Well, I don't vote in American elections any more and haven't since I was purged from the voting roles in two consecutive elections in the early 2000s, but my reasons for despising Trump aren't the ones you named. I find serial adulterer, self-admitted sexual predator, perpetual fraud, racist, non-stop liar, fascistic tendencies, and now murderer to be more relevant.

And yes, I am extremely partisan. I tend to frown on such things.

Where did you move to?

 

[columbus]

"I'm not entirely on anybody's side", said Treebeard, " because nobody is entirely on my side."
JRR Tolkien

Tom

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Not at once. But maybe after some (heated?) discussion.

I may be on the left but I'm neither soft nor an SJW or political correctness advocate. I like a clear word (which was also once a virtue of the conservatives). Just say it like it is. The current divide won't be overcome by holding hands and singing "Kumbaya". This needs some tough talk.

FWIW, I agree with you.

If it helps, the purpose of this thread was less about being nice to each other. It was more about identifying overlapping nuances in our views, which may not otherwise come across.

It’s about demonstrating that we are not the 100% partisan stereotype straw men the other side may believe us to be. Not every Democrat thinks Venezuelan style socialism is a good thing. Not every Republican thinks gun control is a bad thing.