I'll just ignore the completely nonsensical idea of a god having been around "a long time" when talking in context of being "outside of time".......
Now, now, hold on, you misunderstand. There was a time when the universe began, but not a time God began. You see?
Secondly, you're just repeating your claim (outside of time = great intellect). I asked to explain/support the claim, not to simply re-assert it.
Now, now, hold on, you still not understanding. God would have created the entire universe. That includes your brain and intellect. Do you not think that such a God would have a super intellect himself? Logically, yes.
To "exist" is a verbe which only makes sense in a temporal framework. It means "to be for a period of time".
And special pleading won't change that.
That makes zero sense. So, atoms, energy, they dont exist forever?
Having an open mind means that I am open to listen to arguments that might show that my current beliefs are incorrect AND having the willingness to recognise that and thus change my beliefs.
So, lets say hypothetically you die and meet God and find out he tortures souls forever, would you ask him why or would you just object?
If you asked why and he answered you telling the why, would you accept it if it made sense?
You seem to be confusing open-mindedness with just sheer gullibility.
You seam to be confusing the two. Being open and humble is not gullible.
Calling obvious barbaric attrocities "moral" has nothing to do with being "humble" and everything with being morally bankrupt.
Thats just your emotions talking. Your not reasoning anything in that.
There we go again... "you just gotta believe".
Sorry, I don't.
So i should just believe torturing someone is morrally bankrupt?
I'm open minded though: you can easily change my mind if you bring a decent and valid argument and evidence. Without it, I have no reason at all to believe your bizar claims that require me to throw away any and all human decency, integrity and rationality..
How do you know you hold rationality here and i dont?
Sounds suspiciously a lot like North Korea.
If you want to you could find similarities and differences between every government. But, the difference between north korea and God is that north korea did not create the universe. Also north korea does not give freedom to its people, whilst God does. Again, our freedom from God is a gift, not a right.
In the united states now, we have constitutional rights. But that comes from human government. In Gods government, all freedoms are gifts, not rights.
Because many people do believe in God and beliefs inform actions. And their actions have a direct impact on my life.
How does religious peoples actions impact your life?
I prefer my fellow citizens to base their decisions on rational reasoning and rational evidence. The less superstitious beliefs are being hold, the better of society is.
How is not believing God exists make society better?
I see. It's exactly as I described it. So your "no no" is nonsensical.
You are saying that IF a god eternally tortures people and you find that to being immoral, then it MUST mean that you are wrong. So you ARE asking me to simply swallow up whatever you believe that god thinks, no matter why my moral compass is. Because if god disagrees, then I must be wrong.
Correct, you AND I must be wrong about eternal torture, IF when we die, we found out thats how it is. Why? Because its God, the maker of morality, intellect and the universe and all reality and has no begining in himself and knows all things.
This is literally moral bankrupcy.
So i should just believe your assertion?
See, I get my morality from an understanding of reality - not from an assertion of authority.
Well wait just a minute there. How do you know your "morality" is based on a correct understanding of reality and God who MADE reality, has no understanding of it?
My theory is: because you are blinded by dogmatic religious beliefs that you aren't allowed to question.
My theory is: because you are blinded by dogmatic naturalist beliefs that you arent allowed to question.
By the way, yes, i am allowed to question. Your simply not understanding my points.
Let's assume that your god says "I don't have to explain myself to you, shut up or you'll join them".
What then?
Oh boy, you asked a real good juicy question there.
Ok, heres the answer.
1rst, i dont believe God would say shut up or youl join them. I believe hed see my thoughts and heart and that they are truely and humbly seeking to understand his heart and mind, and so he would tell me why.
IF IF IF however im wrong on THAT and he does tell me to shut up or id join them forever. Well, let me be real here, wer talking about eternal torture. I would shut up. Ill be totally honest with you, i would shut up. Now your talking to a guy here who in practice in my life, i have to my harm, have talked back and questioned authority. So, im not a coward by any stretch of the word. But, if you know eternal torture is real and youl join them if you question and you also know there is literally no way to overpower this God, would you not shut up too? Youd be smart if you did and stupid if you did not.
You see, courage is not the absence of fear, its the resistence to it. But, courage is also not stupidity either in the face of danger that cannot be overpowered.
What good would it do if you joined them in eternal torture knowing youd never get out, plus never change this Gods mind?
And you say your RATIONAL? Ya, right, lol, not.
Morality is not a thing that requires any "making" in the first place.
Also: repeating unsupported assertions isn't going to make them any more believable.
Oh ok, so if morality is not made, then it dont matter what your morality tells you then?
Torturing is immoral, no matter the circumstances.
Why is torturing immoral no matter the circumstances?
And heres a guy who has just after arguing with me about how youd question God so fearlessly, but when it comes to human government making something illegal, boy, its set in stone, isnt it!? You got no balls to question your human government, but you do the king of the universe? Hmmmm, suuuure.
If the police would come to your house and find a this kidnapper right up in your basement with all his fingernails pulled out and paper cuts all over his body with salt and vinager poured over it, they'll arrest you and you'll go to prison for several years - no matter what that kidnapper did.
And i totally understand that AND I WOULD NOT CARE. In fact, id finish him off, then the police would have to kill me. Because anyone who would tell me its immoral to torture my wifes torturer and killer and would seek to put me in jail for it, that officer would have to kill me because i would resist them.
:rolleye:
owkay then.
Welcome in the 21st century. Apparantly somebody made you believe that this is still medieval times or something.
So your brain washed by the 21st century?
Good to know.