Why I Could Never Be a Christian (or Muslim)

[Rational Agnostic]

I am technically agnostic about the claims of Christianity and Islam. I don't know if they are true or not, but of course I think they are highly unlikely to be true. But even if someone could convince me that one of these religions were true, I still would not convert to either of them. For instance, even if I were convinced with 100% certainty that Jesus died and rose from the dead, I still could not be a Christian. Similarly, even if I were convinced with 100% certainty that Mohammed was a prophet of God, I could not be a Muslim. Here is why:

In order to be a Christian or Muslim, it is not only belief that is necessary. It is also required that the adherents genuinely love the god of the religion. And given that the Christian and Muslim gods are said to send non-adherents to hell, where they are tortured for eternity, I could never love the god of Christianity, or the god of Islam. Now it is quite easy to pretend to love a god out of fear of the god. For instance, if the Christian or Muslim god was not all-knowing and could not see my motives, it is possible that I would worship and obey it out of fear for my own well-being, while deep down I would hate it, in much the same way as a prisoner of war or slave would worship and obey its captor while still hating him deep down. However, these acts of worship would be entirely fake, and an all-knowing god could see right through them. There is absolutely no amount of mental gymnastics, or BS rationalizing about "justice" and "sins against a perfect god" that I could ever do to get myself to love a god that tortures people forever. If such a being existed, I would hate it deeply, passionately, and with every fiber of my being, and that being would see right through my actions and know that I hate it. So, even if a case could be made that the claims of Christianity or Islam were true, I could never be a Christian or Muslim, because I would hate the god.

 

[Rival]

Well, the thing is you don't have to like G-d. A lot of people believe in G-d the same way they 'believe' in the moon or gravity - it's just a part of life. You don't have to like it, only accept it's there.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Well, the thing is you don't have to like G-d. A lot of people believe in G-d the same way they 'believe' in the moon or gravity - it's just a part of life. You don't have to like it, only accept it's there.

If that were truly what Christians believe, then Christian dogma would teach that demons are Christians.

 

[Rival]

If that were truly what Christians believe, then Christian dogma would teach that demons are Christians.

In Christian theology, if the demons know that Jesus is saviour &c. then yes, they believe it, they just don't care. If it's their lack of so-called Christian qualities that makes them non-Christians then that's up to an individual I suppose, but these demons supposedly still know the truth and are, for whatever reason, only acting contrary to it, not disbelieving it. Just as you could say, I hate the Moon, or, The Moon has no significance to my life, but the Moon will still be there.

 

[Jollybear]

I am technically agnostic about the claims of Christianity and Islam. I don't know if they are true or not, but of course I think they are highly unlikely to be true. But even if someone could convince me that one of these religions were true, I still would not convert to either of them. For instance, even if I were convinced with 100% certainty that Jesus died and rose from the dead, I still could not be a Christian. Similarly, even if I were convinced with 100% certainty that Mohammed was a prophet of God, I could not be a Muslim. Here is why:

In order to be a Christian or Muslim, it is not only belief that is necessary. It is also required that the adherents genuinely love the god of the religion. And given that the Christian and Muslim gods are said to send non-adherents to hell, where they are tortured for eternity, I could never love the god of Christianity, or the god of Islam. Now it is quite easy to pretend to love a god out of fear of the god. For instance, if the Christian or Muslim god was not all-knowing and could not see my motives, it is possible that I would worship and obey it out of fear for my own well-being, while deep down I would hate it, in much the same way as a prisoner of war or slave would worship and obey its captor while still hating him deep down. However, these acts of worship would be entirely fake, and an all-knowing god could see right through them. There is absolutely no amount of mental gymnastics, or BS rationalizing about "justice" and "sins against a perfect god" that I could ever do to get myself to love a god that tortures people forever. If such a being existed, I would hate it deeply, passionately, and with every fiber of my being, and that being would see right through my actions and know that I hate it. So, even if a case could be made that the claims of Christianity or Islam were true, I could never be a Christian or Muslim, because I would hate the god.

You would hate that which created you? And if this God did torture rebels in hell forever, you think youd know better then him, a mere ant in comparison in mind and size?

**mod edit**

 

[ManSinha]

@Hubert Farnsworth

I do not know where you are headed with this thread - but your beliefs would be supported by the Yoga philosophy of Samkhya. it is based mainly off of reasoning and inference and does not find a place for a god figure

Samkhya deals with consciousness and matter and beautifully (in my opinion) explains a significant part of how we live and interact in this world

 

[Nakosis]

I am technically agnostic about the claims of Christianity and Islam. I don't know if they are true or not, but of course I think they are highly unlikely to be true. But even if someone could convince me that one of these religions were true, I still would not convert to either of them. For instance, even if I were convinced with 100% certainty that Jesus died and rose from the dead, I still could not be a Christian. Similarly, even if I were convinced with 100% certainty that Mohammed was a prophet of God, I could not be a Muslim. Here is why:

In order to be a Christian or Muslim, it is not only belief that is necessary. It is also required that the adherents genuinely love the god of the religion. And given that the Christian and Muslim gods are said to send non-adherents to hell, where they are tortured for eternity, I could never love the god of Christianity, or the god of Islam. Now it is quite easy to pretend to love a god out of fear of the god. For instance, if the Christian or Muslim god was not all-knowing and could not see my motives, it is possible that I would worship and obey it out of fear for my own well-being, while deep down I would hate it, in much the same way as a prisoner of war or slave would worship and obey its captor while still hating him deep down. However, these acts of worship would be entirely fake, and an all-knowing god could see right through them. There is absolutely no amount of mental gymnastics, or BS rationalizing about "justice" and "sins against a perfect god" that I could ever do to get myself to love a god that tortures people forever. If such a being existed, I would hate it deeply, passionately, and with every fiber of my being, and that being would see right through my actions and know that I hate it. So, even if a case could be made that the claims of Christianity or Islam were true, I could never be a Christian or Muslim, because I would hate the god.

Where does the Bible state that humans get tortured forever?

Not that I am advocating Christianity, but some Christians tell me that eternal torture for humans is not in the Bible. I mean if that is the only thing keeping you from being a Christian.

Revelations does state something about the truly wicked, that refuse to repent from their evil way being burnt away to ash. Maybe that's instant, just poof out of existence. I assume that's after given every possible chance to repent.

 

[osgart]

If God was truly just, and i am truly unjust then i would desire to take a just salvation.

And if enemies of God are forever enemies in their hearts by their own volition, and beyond ability to change and reform, then eternal damnation would be just.

But if God were able to conquer the evil in all mankind's hearts, then that God would surely do so. God being omniscient, and omniknowing would surely be able to change the most evil heart, imo. And i would surmise that all evil is to be punished until the day of total eternal reform.

So, if there is a God, then leaving us to this existence, and in this exact plight is somehow the only deserved effectual way in saving souls from themselves.

Christianity, and Islam do not evidence any true justice in what they impart to the world.

And i see a ton of needless suffering of blameless people in the world.

So i have to conclude, there is no God.

 

[Vinayaka]

I could never be a Christian or a Muslim because all the core concepts make absolutely no sense ... to me. Almost every time I hear more about it, I find myself shaking my head, and asking, "Really?"

 

[Workman]

I am technically agnostic about the claims of Christianity and Islam. I don't know if they are true or not, but of course I think they are highly unlikely to be true. But even if someone could convince me that one of these religions were true, I still would not convert to either of them. For instance, even if I were convinced with 100% certainty that Jesus died and rose from the dead, I still could not be a Christian. Similarly, even if I were convinced with 100% certainty that Mohammed was a prophet of God, I could not be a Muslim. Here is why:

In order to be a Christian or Muslim, it is not only belief that is necessary. It is also required that the adherents genuinely love the god of the religion. And given that the Christian and Muslim gods are said to send non-adherents to hell, where they are tortured for eternity, I could never love the god of Christianity, or the god of Islam. Now it is quite easy to pretend to love a god out of fear of the god. For instance, if the Christian or Muslim god was not all-knowing and could not see my motives, it is possible that I would worship and obey it out of fear for my own well-being, while deep down I would hate it, in much the same way as a prisoner of war or slave would worship and obey its captor while still hating him deep down. However, these acts of worship would be entirely fake, and an all-knowing god could see right through them. There is absolutely no amount of mental gymnastics, or BS rationalizing about "justice" and "sins against a perfect god" that I could ever do to get myself to love a god that tortures people forever. If such a being existed, I would hate it deeply, passionately, and with every fiber of my being, and that being would see right through my actions and know that I hate it. So, even if a case could be made that the claims of Christianity or Islam were true, I could never be a Christian or Muslim, because I would hate the god.

Well! It’s a Good thing you have the free-will to make of your own kind of God! Like being your own god?.is what I’m assuming you would do! No? All the best!

 

[David1967]

Well, the thing is you don't have to like G-d. A lot of people believe in G-d the same way they 'believe' in the moon or gravity - it's just a part of life. You don't have to like it, only accept it's there.

And in the end there's not a G-D thing we can do about it.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Where does the Bible state that humans get tortured forever?

Not that I am advocating Christianity, but some Christians tell me that eternal torture for humans is not in the Bible. I mean if that is the only thing keeping you from being a Christian.

Revelations does state something about the truly wicked, that refuse to repent from their evil way being burnt away to ash. Maybe that's instant, just poof out of existence. I assume that's after given every possible chance to repent.

Hell has many different interpretations to different Christian sects. Everything from the common grave (sheol, these are annihilationists who dont believe in an immortal soul typically) to eternal separation (how you can remain separate from a omnipresent being is not explained) to the cage of Satan where demons have their way with you.
All of then will have vastly different interpretations of the same scriptures. The most torturous ones seem to also be the most poetic and to my interpretation, not meant to be taken literally. Hell as a place of punishment didn't enter the common discourse until long, long after the purported ministry of Jesus.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

You would hate that which created you? And if this God did torture rebels in hell forever, you think youd know better then him, a mere ant in comparison in mind and size?

**mod edit**

I've never understood this reasoning. We might be ants next to God, but it behooves us to use the mind he gave us to the best of our abilities and accept personal responsibility.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well....with all due respect, Christianity is a very broad term.
Protestants tend to praise and adore God no matter what...
Catholics try to keep their distance from Him as much as they can.

 

[Zita]

Please don't judge God on the words of Religion!! They go by the bible and I believe none of it.Yes I believe in God but the God I know is not that God they paint him to be, The God of Creation is all about good.He is forgiving,understanding,merciful,blesses, and more !!!not any negative actions. You have to get to know God for your self not just go off of what Christians and etc. tell you or what you read out of a bible that they can't even prove its true.I use to be a Christian, I don't know how I stayed in it as long as I did,once I got bold enough to challenge all that stuff that they were filling my head with,I decided to run away fast and not waste anymore of my life in a religion that locks me in a box to control me and my actions. Stopping me from discovering the real meaning of my purpose while i am here on earth. I don't need religion or the bible to experience him, as a matter of fact I am more connected with God and the Universe then I ever was in the Christian religion.

 

[ManSinha]

Please don't judge God on the words of Religion!! They go by the bible and I believe none of it.Yes I believe in God but the God I know is not that God they paint him to be, The God of Creation is all about good.He is forgiving,understanding,merciful,blesses, and more

There is god in other avenues of belief as well

And what you are referring to is what some call "Ishta Devta" or "personal god" - you can make her / him in any image you choose and imbue it with the qualities you would like - if that is used as your connection to the ultimate divine - so be it

 

[Zita]

There is god in other avenues of belief as well

And what you are referring to is what some call "Ishta Devta" or "personal god" - you can make her / him in any image you choose and imbue it with the qualities you would like - if that is used as your connection to the ultimate divine - so be it

Obviously ;you don't understand a thing I wrote!! No this is not called " Ishta Devta" my" personal God", although I have a personal relationship with him, as everyone else should.I am referring to the same God that Christians and most denominations refer to as the Creator of Heaven and Earth, the Alpha and Omega , the beginning and the end,you know "God"!!! I just choose to believe that he is all about Love and don't agree with the dogma that they place on God, and I don't imbue him with qualities I would like!! I am thankful that he blesses me and the rest of the World with his awesome Light and Love and all the goodness anyone should appreciate in our everyday life.Now, if you don't understand that, oh well.....

 

[ManSinha]

Obviously ;you don't understand a thing I wrote!! No this is not called " Ishta Devta" my" personal God", although I have a personal relationship with him, as everyone else should.I am referring to the same God that Christians and most denominations refer to as the Creator of Heaven and Earth, the Alpha and Omega , the beginning and the end,you know "God"!!! I just choose to believe that he is all about Love and don't agree with the dogma that they place on God, and I don't imbue him with qualities I would like!! I am thankful that he blesses me and the rest of the World with his awesome Light and Love and all the goodness anyone should appreciate in our everyday life.Now, if you don't understand that, oh well.....

You realize how many times i there you used "i" and "I choose to believe" - you are doing exactly what I said you were - if you do not want to see it that way - that is fine

I believe in the divine as well - just not an interactive one

 

[Zita]

I can only speak for myself not others but the others and myself are talking about the same God, then we share that same God so he is not my personal God he is the God of many, we just have different opinions of how God relates to us and how we feel about him,so once again you are not understanding what I am saying, you are w-r-o-n-g about what I am saying!!

 

[Zita]

God is a made up construct in the first place - and having different opinions calls for different constructs of the made up entity

Oh I see why you didn't understand what I am saying you don't even believe in him, you should have said that in the beginning!! I could have saved myself some time. Have a nice day.