whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
Obama had a bad record all around regarding religious persecution
Pressure grows on Obama Administration to call persecution of Middle Eastern Christians a genocide – Daily News
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Why did Obama have such a poor record regarding religious persecution in the world
- Thread starter whirlingmerc
- Start date
Obama had a bad record all around regarding religious persecution
Pressure grows on Obama Administration to call persecution of Middle Eastern Christians a genocide – Daily News
You're linked articles basically suggested he was a shill for Islam.
So...I'm still confused.
Also, Jewish reports of issues within the US have been on the rise.
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
There is more than enough blame to go around. The seeds may have been planted by Bush, but Obama's withdrawal allowed them to grow.It was the Bush administration that is responsible for ISIS.
From: Did George W. Bush Create ISIS?
Did George W. Bush Create ISIS?
By Dexter Filkins
May 15, 2015
Photograph by James Glover/Reuters
The exchange started like this: at the end of Jeb Bush’s town-hall meeting in Reno, Nevada, on Wednesday, a college student named Ivy Ziedrich stood up and said that she had heard Bush blame the growth of isis on President Obama, in particular on his decision to withdraw American troops from Iraq in 2011. The origins of isis, Ziedrich said, lay in the decision by Bush’s brother, in 2003, to disband the Iraqi Army following the toppling of Saddam Hussein’s government.
“It was when thirty thousand individuals who were part of the Iraqi military were forced out—they had no employment, they had no income, and they were left with access to all of the same arms and weapons.… Your brother created isis,’’ she said.
“All right,’’ Bush said. “Is that a question?”
“You don’t need to be pedantic to me, sir,” she said.
“Pedantic? Wow,” Bush said.
Ziedrich finally came forth with her query: “Why are you saying that isis was created by us not having a presence in the Middle East when it’s pointless wars, where we send young American men to die for the idea of American exceptionalism? Why are you spouting nationalist rhetoric to get us involved in more wars?”
Jeb replied by repeating his earlier criticism of President Obama: that Iraq had been stable until American troops had departed. “When we left Iraq, security had been arranged,” Bush said. The removal of American troops had created a security vacuum that isis exploited. “The result was the opposite occurred. Immediately, that void was filled.”
“Your brother created isis” is the kind of sound bite that grabs our attention, because it’s obviously false yet oddly rings true. Bush didn’t like it: he offered a retort and then left the stage. Meanwhile, Ziedrich had started a conversation that rippled across Twitter, Facebook, and any number of American dinner tables. Who is actually right?
Here is what happened: In 2003, the U.S. military, on orders of President Bush, invaded Iraq, and nineteen days later threw out Saddam’s government. A few days after that, President Bush or someone in his Administration decreed the dissolution of the Iraqi Army. This decision didn’t throw “thirty thousand individuals” out of a job, as Ziedrich said—the number was closer to ten times that. Overnight, at least two hundred and fifty thousand Iraqi men—armed, angry, and with military training—were suddenly humiliated and out of work.
This was probably the single most catastrophic decision of the American venture in Iraq. In a stroke, the Administration helped enable the creation of the Iraqi insurgency. Bush Administration officials involved in the decision—like Paul Bremer and Walter Slocombe—argued that they were effectively ratifying the reality that the Iraqi Army had already disintegrated.
This was manifestly not true. I talked to American military commanders who told me that leaders of entire Iraqi divisions (a division has roughly ten thousand troops) had come to them for instructions and expressed a willingness to coöperate. In fact, many American commanders argued vehemently at the time that the Iraqi military should be kept intact—that disbanding it would turn too many angry young men against the United States. But the Bush White House went ahead.
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
Can you give some examples of where Obama was a champion of
religious liberty or persecuted Christians?
Pressure grows on Obama Administration to call persecution of Middle Eastern Christians a genocide – Daily News
Obama's actions were based on faulty CIA intelligence when he took office.. Nonetheless the military and government was decimated by the actions of Bush, and Iraq was unable to deal with ISIS regardless.
My main point in this thread is to deal with the attempt to hang the guilt trip on Obama. If you wish to consider the history there is blamed shared by all.
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
As far as responsible use of intelligence by Obama/Hillary, Bengazi says otherwise.
And actually Obama had really eccentric ideas about religious persecution
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.5eef9ddbfc1c
Critics pounce after Obama talks Crusades, slavery at prayer breakfast
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
Is this thread meant to be in jest?
whirlingmerc
Well-Known Member
hardly
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I blame both. You can't put this all on Obama.
My point still stands against those that selectively demonize Obama, like you, and not realize the continuum of the Presidents responsibility, along with the general cultural issues of the USA. The bottom line remains Bush is responsible for the rise and power of ISIS as cited.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Of course, rather than actual persecution, by "religious rights" you mean being allowed discriminate and to defy separation of church and state.
sooda
Veteran Member
It was because of the invasion of Iraq which made Iran ascendant and created groups like ISIS?
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Which of course doesn't actually occur.
esmith
Veteran Member
Yeah; abdicate
Curious George
Veteran Member
I am a little confused. It seems that you are suggesting that our foreign policy should ve based entirely on humanitarian concerns. Is that what you mean to imply?
ManSinha
Well-Known Member
Why did GWB and Cheney say they were invading Iraq in the first place?
Remember something about weapons of mass destruction?
Let us start there - with the actions taken under false pretenses - first
ManSinha
Well-Known Member
There are independent analyses that the US did the work for Iran - getting rid of the only local power that acted as a check on them leaving them free to continue with their religious political expansionist plans for fighting proxy wars by their support of Hezbollah and the like
It is was GWB and Cheney that got suckered into this - Obama was nowhere on the scene
You can start the discussion with Obama if you like but please take a moment and answer the question posed as to the incorrect actions and patently false pronouncements of his predecessor - i am of the opinion that Bush should be charged with crimes against humanity for sending US service men and women to their deaths needlessly over an 18 year period.
sooda
Veteran Member
There is no excuse for what they did. Everyone with any knowledge of the ME or the oil business knew the invasion would be an unmitigated disaster.
Salvador
RF's Swedenborgian
Of course, I'm not assuming Trump actually cares more about Christianity or Judaism than how much President Obama did so; However, Trump has made symbolic gestures supporting Christianity like appointing a deeply devout Christian as V.P. and moving the U.S. embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. At least Trump pretends to care about Christianity in order to gain their much needed Christian political support, which President Obama didn't require so much.
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