Why did Obama have such a poor record regarding religious persecution in the world

[shunyadragon]

I would ask the same question to you about the fierce, fanatic dislike of President Trump, since it makes no sense either. But I guess when it comes to ones own ideas one can not see past them.

There is a distinct difference between Trump and virtually all of the other Presidents in history. We can go into more detail if you like, beginning with his hedonist degrading life style, trashing other minorities, nationalities, and virtually anyone who disagrees with him, and laundering money of corrupt Russian oligarchs.

 

[columbus]

FYI I did not hate Obama, I only disagreed with 97+% of his policies.

But nevertheless, when Obama took office the USA was a disaster. The previous administration had left much of the Muslim world in flames. The domestic economy was in a nosedive and the federal deficit was exploding. Our standing with foreign governments was in tatters. Yes, Obama made mistakes. But he rescued this country from the outcome of the Republican policies of his predecessors. And he did it despite the obstructionist goals in Congress.

By comparison, the state of the USA when Trump took office(and for that matter Bush II) was excellent. Complaining that Obama didn't have a magic wand is a rather abjectly partisan complaint.
Tom

 

[metis]

Again, regardless of what was handed him, if he had taken Trumps stand, it would have been over during his administration.

"Trump's stand" was to had it over to the Russians by caving to them and Assad. However, we were caught in a Catch-22 on this, so it's not that easy to determine which would have been the best course of action for us to take. Some say "hindsight is 20/20", but in this case even that doesn't apply.

 

[LuisDantas]

I would ask the same question to you about the fierce, fanatic dislike of President Trump, since it makes no sense either. But I guess when it comes to ones own ideas one can not see past them.

Sure, you may ask whatever questions with self-evident answers you want, and there is ultimately nothing to stop you from declaring batlantly false equivalences. Even when you include libel as part of the statements, as you just did. It IS a free country.

That will cost you some of your credibility, but you alone know what you value and what you do not.

 

[ManSinha]

Trump has made symbolic gestures supporting Christianity like appointing a deeply devout Christian as V.P

Well - the other side to that story is that Pence was the price Trump had to pay to the Koch brothers - read up about the close relationship between Pence and the Koch brothers - perfect way to gain the sympathy / support of the righteous as well get in a word for big business

Also Mr. Trump has gone on record announcing that ISIS is defeated and making the decision to pull troops from Syria. We shall all see how that plays out if we are here four to five years down the line

 

[Kenny]

And if he attacked Assad he'd have been criticised for helping ISIS.

Seriously, how much impact do you think that not enforcing a 'red line' had on the OP?

Also, given that in this mess in the ME there were no 'good' options, don't you think Obama would still be criticised by the same people regardless of what he had done?

How do you think he should have 'stopped' ISIS? Another trillion dollar war costing hundreds of American lives and only treats the symptom and not the cause?

Apparently you missed what I said.

 

[Kenny]

Ah . . . you mean like Trump reducing the US Troops in the Middle East. The line in the sand drawn by Trump appears to be in the Atlantic Beach USA.

Ahhh... because ISIS is still in control of so much land.

 

[Kenny]

Do you believe that if the Republicans had taken Obama's stand then they would have caught Osama bin Laden much sooner?

you mean as a contrast with Benghazi?

Yes... I believe whoever was in office was going to catch Osama.

 

[shunyadragon]

Ahhh... because ISIS is still in control of so much land.

In Afghanistan YES! . . .as I noted in another site it reminds me of the story of Japanese fisherman trying to exterminate starfish. They would cut them up in small pieces found in their nets and throw them back in the sea not realizing that each part was a new starfish.

It remains a problem that you do not acknowledge the facts that Bushes policies in Iraq resulted in ISIS being the largest most powerful army in Iraq.

 

[Kenny]

"Trump's stand" was to had it over to the Russians by caving to them and Assad. However, we were caught in a Catch-22 on this, so it's not that easy to determine which would have been the best course of action for us to take. Some say "hindsight is 20/20", but in this case even that doesn't apply.

I think I was misunderstood with my statement with Assad. The OP was simply about

"There was even a severe increase in harm against Christians and moderate Muslims in the middle east on his watch but he had a very weak policy and response

Why was that? and why did the Democratic party go along with it?"

You are correct that there are many issues that may be wrong with any/all presidents. I even have issues with Bush. But the issue was Obama's lack of a strong opposition to increased harm against Christians AND moderate Muslims.

My comment about Assad was just that it was another example of a weak response. I think it would have been better for him not to have made "a line" than to have made "a line" and not respond to it when it is crossed.

 

[Augustus]

Yes... I believe whoever was in office was going to catch Osama.

Which was the point. Whoever won the last election was going to 'defeat' ISIS. It was always going to take years unless someone was willing to put in large numbers of ground forces.

ISIS had already lost most of their territory before Trump took power. He didn't do anything radically different, just as Obama didn't do anything radically different to catch OBL.

Some things happen due to the actions of a President, other things simply happen on their watch.

 

[shunyadragon]

I think I was misunderstood with my statement with Assad. The OP was simply about

"There was even a severe increase in harm against Christians and moderate Muslims in the middle east on his watch but he had a very weak policy and response

Why was that? and why did the Democratic party go along with it?"

You are correct that there are many issues that may be wrong with any/all presidents. I even have issues with Bush. But the issue was Obama's lack of a strong opposition to increased harm against Christians AND moderate Muslims.

My comment about Assad was just that it was another example of a weak response. I think it would have been better for him not to have made "a line" than to have made "a line" and not respond to it when it is crossed.

You have not documented this absurd assertion, nor acknowledged my reference that martyrdom of Christians has increased. There is a factor that is relevant in many regions of persecution the Christians and moderate Muslims have moved out over the years..

 

[Shad]

Seems there was much more concern shown before him and after him.

How much of that concern was genuine compared to pandering, cold war era rhetoric and just basic politics? How many presidents ignored KSA? For how long?

 

[ManSinha]

@whirlingmerc

A large number of those killed in the 9/11 attacks were innocent American christians - right? - murdered right here in America - forget elsewhere

GWB was the president at the time - he continued to be for 7 years later

The majority of the attackers were Saudi Arabian citizens

Saudi Arabia funds and sponsors the wahabi brand of islam - the one that is blamed for the majority of the radicalization of the disaffected youth today

What did GWB or Trump do against Saudi Arabia?

I shall accept for purposes of this discussion that Obama did little or nothing

 

[Shad]

Saudi Arabia funds and sponsors the wahabi brand of islam - the one that is blamed for the majority of the radicalization of the disaffected youth today

Not only that but those supported Mosques are pushing/buying up moderates Mosques out in some areas. In Sask this was documented by moderate Muslims themselves. The local Mosques would be bought out then flipped into the typical KSA brand Islam leaving many with no alternative places of worship.

Sask does not have a dense population with only about 1 million in the whole province. There are only 2 cities with populations over 50k. A village Mosque could have a membership covering a lot of km/2. So alternatives in some areas require a weekend of travel thus are not practical.

 

[Kenny]

Which was the point. Whoever won the last election was going to 'defeat' ISIS. It was always going to take years unless someone was willing to put in large numbers of ground forces.

ISIS had already lost most of their territory before Trump took power. He didn't do anything radically different, just as Obama didn't do anything radically different to catch OBL.

Some things happen due to the actions of a President, other things simply happen on their watch.

I disagree...

What did Obama actually do to stop ISIS?

 

[Kenny]

You have not documented this absurd assertion, nor acknowledged my reference that martyrdom of Christians has increased. There is a factor that is relevant in many regions of persecution the Christians and moderate Muslims have moved out over the years..

I'm not sure who is making absurd assertions. IMV, your statement is absurd in and of itself.

 

[Fool]

Allot

Obama charged with 'facilitating' Christian persecution

Nigeria has a larger number of muslims than christian. it isn't amazing that the muslim president won.


Africa :: Nigeria — The World Factbook - Central Intelligence Agency

 

[metis]

You are correct that there are many issues that may be wrong with any/all presidents. I even have issues with Bush. But the issue was Obama's lack of a strong opposition to increased harm against Christians AND moderate Muslims.

But he did, and as a matter of fact he worked to get a coalition together to fight terrorism as he didn't like Bush's cowboy go-it-alone approach.

The Iranian deal also was a byproduct of this approach, and contrary to right-wing propaganda, it has been effective, which is why all the other nations that signed on have stayed and why our own intelligence say Iran is going by the agreement.

Many people blame Obama for pulling out of Syria, which in hindsight did lead to the expansion of ISIS, but most Americans wanted us out overwhelmingly so. How can we justify constant intervention in other areas of the world and not allow those that live there make some contributions, especially since they have far more irons in the fire than we do?

My comment about Assad was just that it was another example of a weak response. I think it would have been better for him not to have made "a line" than to have made "a line" and not respond to it when it is crossed.

Yes, that was very much a mistake on his part, so I'll cut him no slack on that.

 

[Augustus]

I disagree...

Well, they had already taken back most of the territory before Trump came to power, so what makes you disagree?

What did Obama actually do to stop ISIS?

Pretty much the same as Trump. Provided air support and special forces assistance to the non-US forces who had to take control of the territory.

What specific things do you think Trump did that were so different, rather than simply being a continuation of an ongoing process?