Atheism as a philosophy, is beneficial to the theist!

[lewisnotmiller]

Aren't you trying to add to the definition of atheist when you add morality in?

There is also nothing in atheism that suggests morality is meaningful. It offers no comment on morality, whereas nihilism does.

It's possible for an atheist to be a nihilist, but majority of atheists are not.

 

[Liu]

What say other theists do you find secularism beneficial to you, if so why and if not why not?

Sure - but like the foreposters I wouldn't conflate that with atheism.
In my religion (i.e. Satanism, or the LHP in general), skepticism/critical thinking is by many considered a virtue and a gift of our deity, and some of our organizations also explicitly subscribe to humanistic values.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Oh dear, I don't like to have disagreement with you from the get go, as you're one of my RF favorites. Still, I feel I must mention that the philosophical principles of secular humanism are only that.

Not all atheists are humanists. Many of them are nihilist, and since atheism only means lack of belief in deities- presumably atheism is inherently nihilistic.

I think it's a misapplication of atheist and humanist to say 'the philosophical principles of atheism is secular humanism'.

Many anti-theists especially are philosophical illiterates and/or don't really care about it.

Well I guess my misapplication is due to those atheists that I have studied over time. I must admit, my views regarding atheism are subject due to both academic study and encounters. I understand many atheists are nihilists and atheism is composed of various ideas concerning the natural world. I was making an attempt to state what I have encountered.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Atheism actually only exists in context to religion It's not really a philosophy outside religion. It's like imagine that all belief in God disappears. Well then to say "I don't believe in God" would sound nuts it wouldnt register for people. I think the real question why doesnt "i believe in god" sound completely crazy? Its a relative easy answer actually.

Well actually atheism in my view is a philosophical mindset especially if the premise of the intellectual atheist is of the subject of observable materialism. An atheist does not have to need religion to critique the metaphysics of the world.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods. It's not a philosophy, though many of them like scientism.

True but over the course of study it has developed interesting a systemic principle which draws its influences from various philosophical principles.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I think you have to go back to what the definition of atheism is, as has already been said, it is a rejection of/lack of belief in all gods. Nothing else, in particular it says nothing about the person's moral compass.
I'm an atheist but I'm not a nihilist because I have morals.

If you’re not a nihilist which philosophical foundation do you draw your atheism from?

 

[BilliardsBall]

In my studies from undergraduate school from studying Peter Abelard to Al-Ghazali, to Averroes (Ibn Rushd) to Ikhwan Al-Safa all the way to David Hume I found it essential that the philosophical principles of atheism which is secular humanism, is essential to expanding one's mind from the greater environment to the whole of it. In mentioning David Hume although his writings weren't wholly atheist, his focus was merely on the skepticism of religion. I personally think we should continually challenge ourselves in our beliefs whether they're theistic or non-theistic and it is very important to be private investigators of the greater world so we can expand our understanding of it. I think too often many theists especially monotheists get too far right or left within scripture and become blinded by scripture as opposed to critical thinking about the natural world.

I always make it a point especially religionists who conflate social problems as some sort of aforementioned theistic eschatological event, that its necessary to not delve in the scripture to interpret every minute and great thing and to just come into the realization that we are mere observers (and sometimes players) of events. Sometimes theists forget the world acts independent from us, and that every observable and quantifiable thing is not always spiritually determined, but an action....

What say other theists do you find secularism beneficial to you, if so why and if not why not?

Yes, I agree with the reasons you describe. A healthy dose of skepticism, however, is different than being an avid atheist, which is literally soul-eroding:

1 Tim 4:2 - Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

 

[Quintessence]

What say other theists do you find secularism beneficial to you, if so why and if not why not?

Others have already mentioned the issues in conflating atheism with things like secularism and humanism, so I won't beat that horse any further.

I don't find secularism useful or beneficial. In principle, secularism is supposed to denote things which have no religious basis. In practice, it is nothing of the sort because designating something as "religious" or "not religious" is a construct. Secularism bases these constructs on whatever religions are dominant in that culture. It fails to account for religious diversity, or religions and religious expressions that don't fit its model of what "religion" looks like. As a consequence of these constructs, secularism oppresses some expressions of religion while privileging others. I strongly prefer the approach of pluralism to secularism because it lacks this problem.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Yes, I agree with the reasons you describe. A healthy dose of skepticism, however, is different than being an avid atheist, which is literally soul-eroding:

1 Tim 4:2 - Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.

Right but sometimes an avid soul-eroding debate can also strengthen us as well.

 

[LuisDantas]

@Epic Beard Man , what you call atheism is actually some combination of skepticism, naturalism and/or secularism. Those are healthy for everyone, including monotheists.

 

[Altfish]

If you’re not a nihilist which philosophical foundation do you draw your atheism from?

I'm sorry but you don't draw atheism from any philosophical foundation. As has been said many times before...
Atheism = Lack of belief in gods
No more, no less. It says nothing about morality or philosophy.

I fail to see why this is so hard to grasp.

Now, if you want to call me a secularist or a humanist - those terms come with philosophies attached.

 

[ChristineM]

In my studies from undergraduate school from studying Peter Abelard to Al-Ghazali, to Averroes (Ibn Rushd) to Ikhwan Al-Safa all the way to David Hume I found it essential that the philosophical principles of atheism which is secular humanism, is essential to expanding one's mind from the greater environment to the whole of it. In mentioning David Hume although his writings weren't wholly atheist, his focus was merely on the skepticism of religion. I personally think we should continually challenge ourselves in our beliefs whether they're theistic or non-theistic and it is very important to be private investigators of the greater world so we can expand our understanding of it. I think too often many theists especially monotheists get too far right or left within scripture and become blinded by scripture as opposed to critical thinking about the natural world.

I always make it a point especially religionists who conflate social problems as some sort of aforementioned theistic eschatological event, that its necessary to not delve in the scripture to interpret every minute and great thing and to just come into the realization that we are mere observers (and sometimes players) of events. Sometimes theists forget the world acts independent from us, and that every observable and quantifiable thing is not always spiritually determined, but an action....

What say other theists do you find secularism beneficial to you, if so why and if not why not?

Atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Anything else is down to the individual.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Anything else is down to the individual.

But atheism is not spontaneous it derives from something

 

[LuisDantas]

But atheism is not spontaneous it derives from something

Why do you think it isn't spontaneous?

For a great many people it is indeed spontaneous.

 

[David T]

Well actually atheism in my view is a philosophical mindset especially if the premise of the intellectual atheist is of the subject of observable materialism. An atheist does not have to need religion to critique the metaphysics of the world.

Well the fool carl nietztch believed, and his son he fool did not. Both went mad which fool is correct?

 

[Liu]

But atheism is not spontaneous it derives from something

It's spontanous for those raised in an atheist environment, as theism is spontanous for those raised in a theist one.

But I see where you're coming from in regards to linking it with those philosophies - if theism is wide-spread in a culture, one needs to first develop some critical thinking skills to come to an atheistic position.
And considering how much part of Christian morality goes against humanist values, it's no wonder that those who become humanists may also leave Christianity simoultaneously - but that doesn't mean that they therefore would arrive at an atheist position. Many of the early humanists instead became pantheists, deists, etc.

 

[ChristineM]

But atheism is not spontaneous it derives from something

Wrong, it derives from nothing, no gods.

Taking it further, we are all born without belief in gods, they are a learned trait.

 

[YmirGF]

It's possible for an atheist to be a nihilist, but majority of atheists are not.

This strong atheist is certainly not a nihilist.

 

[LuisDantas]

It's spontanous for those raised in an atheist environment, as theism is spontanous for those raised in a theist one.

Is that so? Personally, I don't think that is very accurate.

Theism seems to develop spontaneously, but only rarely and in an unfocused way. Even in societies that refuse to even acknowledge divergence of belief it takes considerable effort to keep people conforming to the majority's established line of thought.

By contrast, skepticism develops a lot more spontaneously and often leads naturally to atheism in people so inclined.

But I see where you're coming from in regards to linking it with those philosophies - if theism is wide-spread in a culture, one needs to first develop some critical thinking skills to come to an atheistic position.

Not really. Some people are simply not a good fit for theism. I may be one of those, if my memories of understanding Christianity as a form of fable-worship that was never meant to involve actual god-belief are at all accurate.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Why do you think it isn't spontaneous?

For a great many people it is indeed spontaneous.

Because God or a god has to be conceptual in the mind. It thus requires a process of understanding the natural world in the senses that if socially people believe natural elements are the result of some autonomous deity or deities there must be a process of philosophical speculation that the result of said of natural elements must be due to environmental influence and not divine providence. This requires logical process of elimination. This can only be done by a current system which gives the mind a blueprint to follow which allows such to happen. Today we call this the scientific method but even this method has a logical beginning. Nobody wakes up and says atheism is simply a belief in no deity without a process of thought to come to a conclusion and the same can be said about theists.