Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Veeeerrrryyyy carefully.
Man! You should have warned us 7,821 posts ago.
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Veeeerrrryyyy carefully.
Anybody can claim he/she has experience with God. But when we are discussing to prove a belief or word is true, we need verifiable evidence, otherwise anybody can claim he had experience with God. Such things are merely sayings, with no verifiable evidence.Investigator. Hinduism is not a book faith. Evidence has clearly been repeated that it is in the experience of one to one relationship with the creator not a prophet intermediary.
It has also been said that god (using the term as a medium for understanding) is not someone who dictates what is truth and what is not. God is life itself. God is in all. God is energy. It's what makes you live, move, and have a spiritual self.
This is not the god of abraham because to have this experience one must believe in reincarnation. There is no getting around it. It's not knowledge based. It's what you do and what you experience.
If you do not trust yourself, you will not understand Hinduism, Buddhism, even Catholicism for that matter because god is totally different in the first one, absent in the second, and an actual person in the last.
I asked @Vinayaka for "proof" just not in those terms, of course. I asked what is his and Tony's experience that defines who each person calls god. Not from a book but a dialogue. Vinakaya explained later on god is energy (we were talking about Chakras or something). He would have to repeat it, though.
You can't verify it unless you trust your experiences with god himself.
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God created?
I never heard of god, being an eternal energy with incarnations being able to be created. It's not something written it just makes sense. I mean, I don't have to believe in reincarnations and incarnations to understand god as an eternal concept and specifically energy that can neither be created nor destroyed.
But you really need to practice Hinduism, really. You can't learn it from quote unquote verifiable resources. You have go passed your dependency on external things and have a one on one internal relationship with god.
Once you have that, what more evidence do you need?
i like this girl already.Veeeerrrryyyy carefully.
Consider that your spiritual eyes lend you a Baha'i interpretation of the book, Christian spiritual eyes grant them a Christian interpretation of the book. And my spiritual eyes tell me that its great that technology is advanced enough to stop the incredible wastage of potential toilet paper each printing of that book represents.It is so much more than interesting
Consider that one has to read and understand spiritual scriptures with spiritual eyes and understanding.
Consider that your spiritual eyes lend you a Baha'i interpretation of the book, Christian spiritual eyes grant them a Christian interpretation of the book. And my spiritual eyes tell me that its great that technology is advanced enough to stop the incredible wastage of potential toilet paper each printing of that book represents.
Which a;so tells you that spiritual eyes are nothing more than a way for a person to validate an interpretation of the text that doesn't fit so great. Or in your words a man trying to control a message.
Instead of asking Krishna how to interpret Hindu text, you ask Bahaullah.
tony brother,I found this Talk of Abdlulbaha where an Indian mentioned telling the world about Krishna.
The talk is on Love
"An Indian said to ‘Abdu’l-Bahá: ‘My aim in life is to transmit as far as in me lies the message of Krishna to the world.’
‘Abdu’l-Bahá said: The Message of Krishna is the message of love. All God’s prophets have brought the message of love. None has ever thought that war and hate are good. Every one agrees in saying that love and kindness are best...."
The remainder of that talk - Bahá'í Reference Library - Paris Talks, Pages 35-39
Regards Tony
In your reply, it reflects what is contained in Isaiah 5 and how the story of humanity, to date, has unfolded.
That's blasphemy according to Jewish Law and it would get your head displaced from your body in other times under certain conditions.In this, The 'Lord of Hosts' is Baha'u'llah.
Isaiah 5:4 is a good meditation; "What more was there to do for My vineyard that I have not done in it? Why, when I expected it to produce good grapes did it produce worthless ones?
It is foretold "
Pretty much every time we are punished it is by a non-Jewish nation.The Lord Will Use Another Nation To Punish His People", they will reject the 'Lord of Hosts'.
I'm not sure what you were trying to say by quoting this.Therefore, as a tongue of fire consumes stubble And dry grass collapses into the flame, So their root will become like rot and their blossom blow away as dust; For they have rejected the law of the LORD of hosts And despised the word of the Holy One of Israel."
Consider that when G-d want the Jews to accept Moses, He revealed Himself to us as Moses said He would and showed Himself talking to Moses so that we can without a doubt that Moses is a prophet of G-d.Baha'u'llah does not Need to Control the Message, He is the Message.
That's blasphemy according to Jewish Law and it would get your head displaced from your body in other times under certain conditions.
Of course not! Of course not! G-d forbid!It would not change what I have accepted and I leave it at that.
Regards Tony
Of course not! Of course not! G-d forbid!
But it sure does make one wonder about people who believe in a god who keeps changing his mind on what is considered acceptable beliefs about himself...
Sunday: If you believe that I can be a person or manifest as a person, I'll have my guys cut your head off.
Monday: Ok, today you can believe I'm a person. But only this once!
Tuesday: Come on guys! You knew this whole time I manifest in people! I was just pulling your leg. Those guys who guy their heads cut off? Ok, I guess I took it too far.
I'm calling into question that any of them could have been. Its simply not logical. When G-d started a new religion called Judaism, He proved it beyond any doubt to the people He wanted to follow it. I have not seen any cogent argument - or any argument really, for why anyone should believe in any person who attempts to change that without a similar degree of national revelation.If Jesus the Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah are from the One G-d, you could quite easily sèe how your argument would need to be reconsidered.
I would offer Baha'u'llah shows they do indèd need reconsideration.
That's cute.Consider Abdul'baha did indeed talk about the proofs of Christ and Muhammad in a synagogue in America.
This is that bold talk.
Rabbi Martin Meyer Hosts Abdu’l-Baha at Temple Emanu-El
Anybody can claim he/she has experience with God.
But when we are discussing to prove a belief or word is true, we need verifiable evidence, otherwise anybody can claim he had experience with God.
Such things are merely sayings, with no verifiable evidence.
Bahais believe in Bahaullah, because He based the validity of His claim, on verifiable evidences.
I have already pointed out in this thread, what those verifiable evidences are.
I'm calling into question that any of them could have been. Its simply not logical. When G-d started a new religion called Judaism, He proved it beyond any doubt to the people He wanted to follow it. I have not seen any cogent argument - or any argument really, for why anyone should believe in any person who attempts to change that without a similar degree of national revelation.
They are One and the Same, gifted the same Holy Spirit in a Different Body. Ask Baha'u'llah and you have asked Krishna.
Regards Tony
But it sure does make one wonder about people who believe in a god who keeps changing his mind on what is considered acceptable beliefs about himself...
Sunday: If you believe that I can be a person or manifest as a person, I'll have my guys cut your head off.
Monday: Ok, today you can believe I'm a person. But only this once!
Tuesday: Come on guys! You knew this whole time I manifest in people! I was just pulling your leg. Those guys who guy their heads cut off? Ok, I guess I took it too far.
It's hard to make counter arguments when you agree to everything I say.
That's my point.
I tell you that god (the god of abraham) does not exist. You tell me he does. We disagree. That is fine.
I backed it up by evidence. I don't need sacred scriptures. It is just common sense. It's not an atheist-thing. That's default. People of all religions have studied how and why we believe what we do. Archeologists, historians, culturist, and so forth have studied and wrote about these things for years. Philosophy has been written about religious views through a political lens and it too talks about how people believe and why. The famous Myth of the Cave is a perfect and excellent example of this. I posted it up thousands of post ago. I don't know if anyone read it.
Even if you did, again, maybe you or I know most of your peers would find a way to agree with it even though they don't get the context of why I post it; not to agree but to learn something different than what you guys (any abrahamic believer, really) are taught.
It doesn't invalidate the religious experience. I've experienced what you continue to call god too; and, I don't call it that. I can't remember one of you mentioned that everyone has some type of mystical experience.
Not everyone does.
The point: As long as your belief says "diversity and humanity" you have to not use your foundation for everyone else's truth. It has to be unanimous.
The focus of all the Baha'i Teachings is on humanity.