How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

I was speaking about the Jews and Muslims.

Okay fine, but that's not what your post said. It's okay to change your mind, lh.

 

[Vinayaka]

My previous point is that all the religions had billions of combined followers and they could not prevent the world wars and the only peace plan not yet tried up till today are the Teachings of Bahaullah which state that we need to recognise 'legally' that humanity comes first before national, racial and religious agendas. Then we will have peace but this has not yet been tried or attempted so it cannot be said to have failed.

If your prophet was as great as you have claimed him to be, he could have easily done something. He's God, after all. All these 'avatars' and prophets throughout history haven't really done all that much when you think about it. That's why I can't rationally believe in any of them. Make it rain where there's drought, that's the kind of stuff God could do.

 

[Vinayaka]

It is interesting that all the main faiths have temples, where adherents engage in communal worship and become more connected to the mystic reality.

They're houses of worship, true. Buildings. But that's where the similarity stops. What goes on inside is incredibly different. Chairs versus no chairs, preaching versus no preaching, order versus chaos, etc. My experience with people from Abrahamic faiths who come into Hindu temples is one of confusion, disorientation, fish out of water thing. I'm the same when I enter a Christian Church. It feels so very strange to me.

 

[Vinayaka]

This is what all humanity needs to reflect on.

Where have you been? Much of humanity has already accomplished inter-racial inter-religious harmony. You're behind the times, I'm afraid. What you're requesting people to look for is already here. India opened it's dharmic arms to Christians nearly 2000 years ago.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Where have you been? Much of humanity has already accomplished inter-racial inter-religious harmony. You're behind the times, I'm afraid. What you're requesting people to look for is already here. India opened it's dharmic arms to Christians nearly 2000 years ago.

A lot of movements for things like racial & religious harmony have been gaining momentum since Baha'u'llah taught these things. Further proof that His Writings are creative and release forces into the world which bring about their reality.

When Bahaullah said 'The world is but one country and mankind it's citizens' world citizenship was never ever spoken of, the telephone, aeroplane and internet were nowhere to be seen. His Words brought about the sciences and technologies that united the world physically. Now there are many organizations promoting this concept. Again, ideas written and revealed by the Pen of Baha'u'llah are seen today as cutting edge ideas required for the progress and advancement of society.

A world language is another teaching which eventually must be realized as humanity further amalgamates. A world currency is another teaching of His. To date many countries have called for it.

World disarmament another teaching. It's part of the UN mandate now. Collective security is another teaching, another UN principle.

A world system of weights and measures, almost there I think. Baha'u'llah's laws and teachings are innovative and meant for this age and governments and religions and nations are turning towards these concepts as you have pointed out.

You refuse to give credit to Baha'u'llah for many of these ideas because you are unaware of His Teachings and when He revealed them and how these teachings have influenced human history.

None of these teachings were circulating in the world before Baha'u'llah revealed them. Revelation is like this..... Be and it is. The technological revolution began while Baha'u'llah was alive.

When a Manifestations ordains something then those Words although common everyday words become empowered with an invisible spiritual potency which enables them to become reality.

I think you underestimate the power of the Word of God. In every instance I can show you the very Words He revealed that set in motion a process since Baha'u'llah revealed them and brought into existence new realities. Thats how we see it although you will see it differently and that's fine.

There are hundreds of His Teachings literally being fulfilled now in our time that were never spoken or even dreamt of until Baha'u'llah made mention of them.

 

[loverofhumanity]

He is one in at least 10 000 to have made that claim. Each follower of the other 9 999 make the same claim as you. So?

For example, ask any Mormon about Joseph Smith.

Joseph Smith had a formal education and was a reformer of Christianity. Mormons consider him a prophet but not the same as Christ. So they wouldn't call him a Manifestation.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

It's all over The Gita, man.

Can you provide 1 or 2 quotes from Krishna, describing His own station?

 

[loverofhumanity]

If your prophet was as great as you have claimed him to be, he could have easily done something. He's God, after all. All these 'avatars' and prophets throughout history haven't really done all that much when you think about it. That's why I can't rationally believe in any of them. Make it rain where there's drought, that's the kind of stuff God could do.

The true miracle of any Prophet is to be able to change hearts. Miracles are not seen by Baha'is as proof of a Prophet. His Life and Teachings are viewed as His main proofs.

Baha'u'llah taught world unity and universal brotherhood and called the kings and rulers to establish peace. He was imprisoned for claiming to be a new Prophet. He was known as the Father of the Poor. He was disinterested in power and wealth and accepted exile and imprisonment because of the jealousy of the clergy for the respect and admiration He was accorded by high and low alike.

So although He was an Exile and Prisoner for 40 years His Faith spread all around the world?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

My view went right over your head. I've live with your mindset of people for years.

So let me ask you a series of questions.

1. Do you think Vinakaya is lying about his experiences with god because he doesn't know the Gita?

Anyone can develop a claim and many do not.

2. Are you saying that god does not exist and you would not believe in him if Bahaullah never existed? (His existence is dependent on Bahaullah and not the other way around?)

Bahaullah's evidence or claims is the same as Jesus and every other abrahamic (abrahamic only) religion that depends on a sacred-book for spiritual experiences.

Christianity has a boat load of verifiable facts; but you keep look at the bible. It's like being on a bus with a map in your hand and when I tell you, hey, your stop is coming up if you look at the window you can catch it. Then you say, "naw, I see it right here in the map. I trust what's drawn on the map before actually looking at the window to pull the cord when my stop shows up."

I mean, you can go around in circles if you want. One day may look up. Hopefully you do, but everyone finds truth different. I mean, some people literally go the long way to get to work because they is the only way they know. They trust the GPS before their sense of direction.

A lot of examples. But if you don't trust yourself, you won't get it.

I think we are getting out of topic here. I am not discussing here if any person here is honest, lies, or imagines, etc. Everyone is free to choose what they want.
The point here is, belief should be based on verifiable evidences. Personal experiences are not verifiable to others.
We need to have a way to separate superstitious from truth. This can only be done through investigation of factual and verifiable information.

 

[Sundance]

Can you provide 1 or 2 quotes from Krishna, describing His own station?

Wanna try 100?


100 Great Bhagavad Gita Quotes From Krishna


Chapter 11 of the Bhagavad Gita:

http://www.bhagavad-gita.org/Gita/chapter-11.html

Blessed reading.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Investigator. Hinduism is not a book faith.

In todays world, authentic written documents are the most acceptable way of keeping the informations, verifying it, and using it.
We live in an age, that our schools, legal systems, and every scientific information are to be documented so, it may verified.
Words alone are often not accepted in legal system today as a proof. This is why, for everything they need signature on the documents as a proof of authenticity.
The Hindu Religion, certainly had a beginning, and origin. It is meaningless to say Hinduism did not have a beginning on this earth, because this earth itself had a beginning. Thus, the true Hinduism teachings are that original set of teachings that came from source of divinity. All Hindus believe that the source of their Religion is divine. They may differ in the name of God, or avatars, but they do believe in divinity as source of their religion. Thus from Hinduism point If a Religion is different from divine teachings and contradicts from divine teachings, it would be a false belief. Thus, the only way to verify if the current Hinduism is that same original divinely ordained Religion that began thousands or more years ago, is to compare with it. When there are no Authentic written documents of the original teachings, from a scientific point of view, there is no way to verify it, for according to logic, we cannot reject the possibility that some people did not take advantage, and made up their own ideas, and added them to the original Hinduism. When people say, a Religion is not based on a written Scriptures, and just based on personal experience, this opens the possibility for some pretenders to take advantage, calling themselves Hindus, and claiming they have experiences, just to deceive others or creating sects, so they may take advantage of it, and become leaders, and get people to obey them. How do we know that since thousands years ago, such people did not appear, and did not make such sects, that have last till today? We would not know, unless we know what that original divine teachings were. When a Religion does not have verifiable authentic Scriptures, it is not protected for abuse, and misuse.

 

[Vinayaka]

A lot of movements for things like racial & religious harmony have been gaining momentum since Baha'u'llah taught these things.

A lot of it was far before the time of your prophet.

 

[Vinayaka]

In todays world, authentic written documents are the most acceptable way of keeping the informations, verifying it, and using it.

If you are a member of a book faith, there really is no other way to see it, is there? Maybe its time to start looking outside the box you're in. Lots of religious paths aren't book based. That is Abrahamisn at the core though.

 

[Vinayaka]

Joseph Smith had a formal education and was a reformer of Christianity. Mormons consider him a prophet but not the same as Christ. So they wouldn't call him a Manifestation.

The book he saw was from God, according to that faith. I see no difference. Besides, he was just one example. I gave you a much longer list earlier in the thread. Just google ' people who have claimed to be God'. It's an extravagant claim, no matter how it's cut.

 

[Vinayaka]

The true miracle of any Prophet is to be able to change hearts. Miracles are not seen by Baha'is as proof of a Prophet. His Life and Teachings are viewed as His main proofs.

Sure. And if Baha'u'llah claimed to be what he claimed to be, half the world would be Baha'i' by now, but there's argument that the Baha'i' actual numbers are shrinking, not gaining. So his teaching isn't proving anything, because nobody is accepting it. The humane and kindness stuff is fine, but it's not unique. It's the wild claims about other religions, the lies about numbers, the anti-homosexuality, the hypocrisy about fairness to women, the exclusivity, the banishment for disagreeing, and more that make it an unattractive faith for most people.

 

[Vinayaka]

Thus from Hinduism point If a Religion is different from divine teachings and contradicts from divine teachings, it would be a false belief.

One of Hinduism's beauties is that it's dynamic, always changing, rearranging itself to the times. This is one of it's strengths. So obviously it's changed from the original, whatever that was.

 

[Vinayaka]

The point here is, belief should be based on verifiable evidences. Personal experiences are not verifiable to others.

Yes we agree. We just don't see any evidence for your belief. There is no evidence for 'progressive manifestations'. In fact a closer look at eh theory makes it fall apart. But that's how religion works. Most people with a belief think there's is the one that has 'verifiable evidence'. 'It's the ego game people play. My religion is the correct view.' Rise above the forest and see it for what it is.

 

[RoaringSilence]

So it's the responsibility of all national and peoples to end wars and poverty and ensure that all have food, clothing, shelter and medicine as well as work and education. This is what it means to put humanity above all else. The $trillions spent on machines for war can be spent on education, medicine and employment instead. But we must all rise above our own agendas and put humanity first.

.

can i ask you what you guys found wrong in what Krishna says in bhagwat gita? kindly list the differences after consulting all bahai in one clear list. and sort the differences or the need for changes to whats told in geeta. lets make that a final reference point to decide weather there is modification or changes that bahubali wants.

if you say that you agree with all there is in bhagwat geeta but ..bahubali is the next prophet...please list those as your arguments in a sub point. in that one common bahai vs geeta.

if you agree with geeta fully then kindly amend that on your main website where it says that you have a different view to that of krishna.

-------------- concerns of politics connected with religion and the problems of humanity are absolutely secondary when it comes to WAY's of worship.
Way of worship is a demand of the creator in exchange for creation.
IF he wishes to send messages of peace or concerns of poverty .. then he can simply make the hungry fed , and cast insta death to the wrong doers at his will, and at the time of his choosing . so either he does;t have control or the power to deal with armies ..and he need bahubali and bahai temple help to sort it for him.

if there is a judgement day ..then why not every day a judgment day..insta strike the wrong doer on spot and end of story.

for him its just a word command....he just has to type command .exe delete roaringsilence.noob.exe /exit. or whatever "Word" he uses.

why not remove organs like penus caps before birth ..and why even give a stomach tht relies on food.. why not direct feeding by sunlight itself... what technology is he missing ...can he make a hacker into a prophet who is anti hack proof and make all computers propagate his new way of worship and brainwash everyone to worship 24 x7 with drug induced states and sun as source of food.
does he want to be loved in a certain way? and everytime someone tries to explain that someone messes it and steal the love and worship he wants?


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[Unveiled Artist]

I think we are getting out of topic here. I am not discussing here if any person here is honest, lies, or imagines, etc. Everyone is free to choose what they want.
The point here is, belief should be based on verifiable evidences. Personal experiences are not verifiable to others.
We need to have a way to separate superstitious from truth. This can only be done through investigation of factual and verifiable information.

Do you think someone is not telling the truth or misguided when they tell you their personal experiences are more verifable evidence than sacred scripture?

Do you feel the population of people are misguided by depending on personal experiences as evidence over boom knowledge?

I made it personal so you Understand what I am saying. If you do not trust your personal experiences, why is one fact that god does exist more relevant and true than my factual evidence that he does not?

That and because he does not, how does the factual evidence you provide me show that god exists in order to believe the spiritual (if you like) authenticity of bahaullah's words to understand you more than general conversations about differing beliefs?

 

[Vinayaka]

Do you think someone is not telling the truth or misguided when they tell you their personal experiences are more verifable evidence than sacred scripture?

In Hinduism the teaching is that Truth cannot be found in books. You have to experience it for yourself. Books are actually a side track. (Not the ones that point directions, the pragmatic kind, just the philosophical kind.) Very different paradigm.