Remove ’Everybody Draw Muhammad Day’ from Facebook

[Riverwolf]

So you would prefer a world wherein nobody said what they think; a world of pretend?

We can say what we think without deliberately insulting other people.

 

[McBell]

We can say what we think without deliberately insulting other people.

Ah, so we needs to be "Politically Correct"?

And just how far does one take the "political correctness"?
Seems to me that there are loads of people already walking on egg shells for fear of upsetting some extremely violent Muslims.

Why must the world walk on eggshells?

 

[Riverwolf]

Ah, so we needs to be "Politically Correct"?

And just how far does one take the "political correctness"?
Seems to me that there are loads of people already walking on egg shells for fear of upsetting some extremely violent Muslims.

Why must the world walk on eggshells?

If I meant "politically correct" I would have said "politically correct."

There's a difference between "politically correct" and "polite!" Then again, simple courtesy and politeness are two things our culture apparently lacks...

Besides, I think being afraid of what violent people can do is a legitimate thing. You don't deliberately go around provoking serial killers, right? If someone warns you not to go down a certain ally because it's a well-known fact that there's a gang of thugs in it that mug, rape, and sometimes kill anyone who goes down it, you don't say "You're not the boss of me!" and walk down it just to spite them, right? And you CERTAINLY don't go around shoving holocaust jokes into survivors' faces.

You don't demand the storm's respect.

 

[Luminous]

I find Religion Insulting... it deeply sadness and humiliates me to see Idol scripture being believed. or people denying their agnosticism. I find it offensive when people blame (the victims) for getting assulted. If people truely wanted to be polite and respect me, they would bow to my every command and whim, and never make fun of its ridiculousness or my ridiculous over-reactions to disrespect. Im not saying people should be forced to keep quiet, just that keeping quiet is the best thing for them and i want to help. In anycase, no one should EVER print an Idol scripture ever again...and they should keep their Blasphemous anti-agnostic thoughts to themselves if they were any sort of decent person.

 

[Pax]

I think the whole idea that "Draw Muhammad Day" should be removed is ridiculous. Since when is it "wrong" to question or criticize religious dogma?

For the record, I do support hate speech laws, because we should call things what they are. Unreasonable and hurtful attacks against blacks is racism and hate speech. Unreasonable and hurtful attacks against Jews is anti-Semitism and hate speech. Unreasonable and hurtful attacks against women is sexism and hate speech.
Unreasonable and hurtful attacks against homosexuals is homophobia and hate speech. Those should all be punished when applicable, but attacking some the stupid religious dogmas of the past - whether Christianity or Islam - is an indisputable right, and is never hate speech, and is totally legal.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think the whole idea that "Draw Muhammad Day" should be removed is ridiculous. Since when is it "wrong" to question or criticize religious dogma?

For the record, I do support hate speech laws, because we should call things what they are. Unreasonable and hurtful attacks against blacks is racism and hate speech. Unreasonable and hurtful attacks against Jews is anti-Semitism and hate speech. Unreasonable and hurtful attacks against women is sexism and hate speech.
Unreasonable and hurtful attacks against homosexuals is homophobia and hate speech. Those should all be punished when applicable, but attacking some the stupid religious dogmas of the past - whether Christianity or Islam - is an indisputable right, and is never hate speech, and is totally legal.

It sounds like you want to censor speech when it's hate speech you don't like, but other hate speech is OK. Is that your intent? Were you to give the gov't power
to criminalize speech, you would give it to every politician to come down the pike. Are you ready to grant it to the next Richard Nixon, GW Bush, B Clinton or LBJ?

 

[Pax]

It sounds like you want to censor speech when it's hate speech you don't like, but other hate speech is OK. Is that your intent? Were you to give the gov't power
to criminalize speech, you would give it to every politician to come down the pike. Are you ready to grant it to the next Richard Nixon, GW Bush, B Clinton or LBJ?

Questioning religious dogma is just that: questioning religious dogma. It is not hate speech.

I think it's a logical fallacy to compare questioning or criticizing outdated beliefs to bandying about vile, hate-filled stereotypes about people just for who they are. For example there are people like White Supremacists who spout out their vile attitudes, blaming "the Jew" or "the Negro" for their personal problems, without any evidence whatsoever. That is what I consider hate, because you are hating them for the way they look.

However there is nothing wrong with merely criticizing the reactionary beliefs of another person. We should not be so blind as to shy away from cultural criticism of reactionary attitudes, as this a necessary part of a progressive multicultural society.

 

[Badran]

Questioning religious dogma is just that: questioning religious dogma. It is not hate speech.

I think it's a logical fallacy to compare questioning or criticizing outdated beliefs to bandying about vile, hate-filled stereotypes about people just for who they are. For example there are people like White Supremacists who spout out their vile attitudes, blaming "the Jew" or "the Negro" for their personal problems, without any evidence whatsoever. That is what I consider hate, because you are hating them for the way they look.

However there is nothing wrong with merely criticizing the reactionary beliefs of another person. We should not be so blind as to shy away from cultural criticism of reactionary attitudes, as this a necessary part of a progressive multicultural society.

We are not talking about questioning beliefs. Is putting pictures of my prophet on the internet in disrespectful positions a question?

 

[YmirGF]

We are not talking about questioning beliefs. Is putting pictures of my prophet on the internet in disrespectful positions a question?

But that is not the question. The point is in the last few hundred years his portrayal has been forbidden in Muslim circles. Such was not the case in the years before that and there are many images created BY Muslims prior to about 1600 or so. This new thing is an innovation, imo. The point is that ANY depiction of Muhammad is now considered blasphemous, not just "disrespectful positions", so there is no wiggle room.

In my view the bottom line is that Muslims put far too much emphasis on Muhammad, to a very unhealthy degree. It is like you are all falling over yourselves to prove who loves the prophet more. It's unseemly and needs to be reexamined.

 

[Badran]

But that is not the question. The point is in the last few hundred years his portrayal has been forbidden in Muslim circles. Such was not the case in the years before that and there are many images created BY Muslims prior to about 1600 or so. This new thing is an innovation, imo. The point is that ANY depiction of Muhammad is now considered blasphemous, not just "disrespectful positions", so there is no wiggle room.

The idea of depicting him in general, is not granted in my mind, as in i'm not sure wether it is wrong or right. It might seem that there is nothing wrong with that, but then i think that if we start depicting him, we will end up with a certain popular image representing him, which is an idea i'm not very comfortable with.

In my view the bottom line is that Muslims put far too much emphasis on Muhammad, to a very unhealthy degree. It is like you are all falling over yourselves to prove who loves the prophet more. It's unseemly and needs to be reexamined.

May be you are right, but don't you think that this kind of matters should be decided by Muslims. I mean for example, for some people eating meat is a bad thing. For me, it perfectly okay. Should i try to bother them and convince them otherwise. Why? Since there is no harm done, every body is free to believe or have whatever personal rules they want. I know that vegetarians don't expect others to comply to their wishes and stop eating meat, but neither do we, we don't expect others to stop depicting the prophet because we say so or ask for so.

Especially like i said earlier, that i'm not suggesting that we impose our believe on others. Meaning that i don't expect non-Muslims to respect this certain idea we have, i'd sure like them to, but i won't try to stop them from expressing themselves. So if they want to draw the prophet (pbuh), fine.

 

[DeitySlayer]

If someone warns you not to go down a certain ally because it's a well-known fact that there's a gang of thugs in it that mug, rape, and sometimes kill anyone who goes down it, you don't say "You're not the boss of me!" and walk down it just to spite them, right?

The protests are analagous to walking into the alley with roughly two million people and doing that. The point is, the target becomes too large for the extremists to hit.

 

[mr.guy]

We are not talking about questioning beliefs. Is putting pictures of my prophet on the internet in disrespectful positions a question?

No.

When people start threating the lives of the artists for doodles, then there's no questioning left to do.

You're wrong about this.

Decades of muslim hissy fits have ground down the most religiously sympathetic of us; while this is far from the worst occasion, it's the last straw for me and, appearantly, many others.

Doodles.

Drawrings.

Stickmen.

These aren't something to kill others over, no matter how disrespectful.

We don't owe you one ounce of respect.

We should and must tolerate your beliefs, but thusfar have no reason whatsoever to respect them (some would say we have even less reason to).

Now, the counter-reactionary sensiblilities many of us adopted after the massive outlet of islamiphobia after 9/11 is starting to feel somewhat mislpaced in my view; obviously, muslims didn't deserve at large to take credit for what a lone faction took up...

...however...

...i'm increasingly feeling that this has become a carte-blanche for the muslim world to more vocal and unified with as to their displeasure across the globe. I realize that this is a severly paranoid statement to make, but Islam has a poor history at weathering bad press with anything but death threats, or, death.

Which is why i love May 20th.

I think, in all the mess of the past couple years, when the world became much more aquainted and familliar with islam we made the assumption that the adaptation would be mutual. And that doesn't seem near on the horizon, i think.

So we're down to our last recourse: we've probed, prodded, courted and hell, bombed islam to no avail, so we're down to our last recourse.

Drawing pictures.


Welcome to the free world, suckers

 

[Riverwolf]

The protests are analagous to walking into the alley with roughly two million people and doing that. The point is, the target becomes too large for the extremists to hit.

...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

Forgetting that a single bomb can potentially kill hundreds of, if not a thousand, people...

 

[Badran]

No.

When people start threating the lives of the artists for doodles, then there's no questioning left to do.

You're wrong about this.

Decades of muslim hissy fits have ground down the most religiously sympathetic of us; while this is far from the worst occasion, it's the last straw for me and, appearantly, many others.

Doodles.

Drawrings.

Stickmen.

These aren't something to kill others over, no matter how disrespectful.

We don't owe you one ounce of respect.

We should and must tolerate your beliefs, but thusfar have no reason whatsoever to respect them (some would say we have even less reason to).

Now, the counter-reactionary sensiblilities many of us adopted after the massive outlet of islamiphobia after 9/11 is starting to feel somewhat mislpaced in my view; obviously, muslims didn't deserve at large to take credit for what a lone faction took up...

...however...

...i'm increasingly feeling that this has become a carte-blanche for the muslim world to more vocal and unified with as to their displeasure across the globe. I realize that this is a severly paranoid statement to make, but Islam has a poor history at weathering bad press with anything but death threats, or, death.

Which is why i love May 20th.

I think, in all the mess of the past couple years, when the world became much more aquainted and familliar with islam we made the assumption that the adaptation would be mutual. And that doesn't seem near on the horizon, i think.

So we're down to our last recourse: we've probed, prodded, courted and hell, bombed islam to no avail, so we're down to our last recourse.

Drawing pictures.


Welcome to the free world, suckers

I don't know if you actually read this entire thread or not, so if you didn't, may be you should read it. If you did, then i don't know what to say.

 

[DeitySlayer]

...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...

Forgetting that a single bomb can potentially kill hundreds of, if not a thousand, people...

What, they're going to bomb every Western city? They don't have the manpower or the capability to cover-up an operation of that scale.

 

[mr.guy]

I don't know if you actually read this entire thread or not, so if you didn't, may be you should read it.

Where free speech is concerned so far as the OP goes, this is a fairly black and white topic.

Which is why even the tiniest mewlings for respect for your prophet should be hammered with harshly so far as current events go;

(Hey! <- that's you!)

'Cuz let's face it, it's gotten old.

Now, not to be too rude, but so far as drawing your prophet goes, you're just gonna have to take it lying down as-in-nothing-you-can-do-about-it-just-try-and-ban-it-now-okbye.

If you did, then i don't know what to say.

That's ok, i wasn't actually expecting much anyways.

 

[Badran]

Where free speech is concerned so far as the OP goes, this is a fairly black and white topic.

Which is why even the tiniest mewlings for respect for your prophet should be hammered with harshly so far as current events go;

(Hey! <- that's you!)

'Cuz let's face it, it's gotten old.

Now, not to be too rude, but so far as drawing your prophet goes, you're just gonna have to take it lying down as-in-nothing-you-can-do-about-it-just-try-and-ban-it-now-okbye.


That's ok, i wasn't actually expecting much anyways.

Well, it's obvious you haven't read the thread, because if you did, you wouldn't say this repeated, meaningless and disrespectful stuff.

 

[mr.guy]

Well, it's obvious you haven't read the thread, because if you did, you wouldn't say this repeated, meaningless and disrespectful stuff.

Oh, believe me, i would.

 

[Badran]

Oh, believe me, i would.

Then you have a serious problem.

 

[Bismillah]

This is not surprising, just another prime example of the hypocrisy of freedom of speech.