Everyone on RF is really an atheist.

[zenzero]

Friend Beaudreaux,

Everyone on RF is really an atheist.
...with regard to one God or another. You know EXACTLY what it is like to be an atheist because that is your attitude toward conceptions of God you disagree with. If someone came up to a Christian, or a Jew, or a Muslim in this forum and proposed that Zeus ruled the earth, none of you would have any problem coming up with excellent arguments as to why it makes no sense that Zeus exists. When it comes to Zeus, you think like an atheist.

Do you agree? Disagree?

Neither agree nor disagree.

Have no opinions about things outside personal experience.

Love & rgds

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't do that, though. I'm just saying there's a difference between the Thor of the eddas and the Thor of the Avengers. (He is in the Avengers, right?)

I believe he is not in any of the three teams that currently claim to be Avengers. (Neither of which has much of a claim, but that's another matter for another time).

Coming back to this distinction, I wonder which is it. Me, I consider Wolverine to be an Avatar of Shiva, myself. Gods are not "real", and I doubt they were ever meant to be. Neither are them false per se: their whole point is that their symbolic and inspirational role.

The point of the OP seems to be lost on many here; just because someone proposes a deity as real it does not imply that it is at all meaningful. Perhaps not even to the person proposing the deity in the first place.

In that sense, yes, I would figure that you, Storm, are atheist in relation to, say, Agammotto, or at least your namesake from the X-Men. It is not really that different with we atheists about the God of Abraham.

Come to think of it, I consider Krishna and Shiva "more real" than the Christian God because there is not much of a need to believe in their actual existence. I am not any bit less of an atheist because of that, either.

Atheism is over-rated, just like Theism, and for many of the same reasons.

 

[Storm]

I don't know who Agammotto is, but Storm of the X-Men (not where I got the name, btw) was never intended as a God, despite the backstory.

You seem to be trying to devalue God-concepts. I'm not sure why, but I don't agree with it.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't think you quite understand what I mean, Storm.

Most, nearly all God-concepts were created at a time when a person's perspectives were severely limited by circunstances. God concepts, far as I can tell, do exist because they are useful to inspire. Whether they are in some sense real or not does not even matter, really. Gods are not supposed to be validated in that way, be it because they are fictional or because they are transcendent - and I am not even sure there is a difference, really.

For that matter, is it even possible to devalue a God concept? It sounds a bit counter-intuitive to me to believe that a person may have such a power.

Sure, it is certainly possible to have a low opinion or a misconcept about a deity or about the very concept of a deity.

But unless deities are somehow human creations (which I personally believe they are) then surely there is no harm possible to the deities, or even to their abstract concepts themselves. Don't you agree?

 

[Storm]

I don't think you quite understand what I mean, Storm.

Most, nearly all God-concepts were created at a time when a person's perspectives were severely limited by circunstances. God concepts, far as I can tell, do exist because they are useful to inspire. Whether they are in some sense real or not does not even matter, really. Gods are not supposed to be validated in that way, be it because they are fictional or because they are transcendent - and I am not even sure there is a difference, really.

I think I'm getting it, but let me mull it over for a bit.

For that matter, is it even possible to devalue a God concept? It sounds a bit counter-intuitive to me to believe that a person may have such a power.

It's possible to try. If enough people agree with you, you might even succeed.

But unless deities are somehow human creations (which I personally believe they are) then surely there is no harm possible to the deities, or even to their abstract concepts themselves. Don't you agree?

Actually, I think some are. There is a difference, in my theology, between deities and attempts to understand God, though they're often confused. It's complicated (and the terminology is confusing, for which I apologize ), but that's how I can say that I believe in allof them. Some are the one, some the other, but all grounded in reality.

 

[blackout]

An Athiest does not believe (in) ANY gOd concept.

Thus your assertion falls flat. sorry.

 

[dogsgod]

Ah, I see. Although I would still argue that a god concept isn't necessarily simplistic. The term 'god concept' covers a wide variety of beliefs. While I disagree with the faith/belief approach to reality, I wouldn't go so far as to call all god concepts simple.
If you're referring to the Christian God, however, I agree.

I'm not aware of any god concepts that are too complex for a four year old to grasp.

Well that's the beginning of it. It becomes sophisticated when the individual molds their beliefs to account for new information as it's encountered.

What's sophisticated, for example, about looking through an ancient text of superstitions that was written by middle eastern iron age tribesmen for an ancient belief for the purpose of applying to new information? I view it as unsophisticated and primitive.

 

[Bedlam]

...with regard to one God or another. You know EXACTLY what it is like to be an atheist because that is your attitude toward conceptions of God you disagree with. If someone came up to a Christian, or a Jew, or a Muslim in this forum and proposed that Zeus ruled the earth, none of you would have any problem coming up with excellent arguments as to why it makes no sense that Zeus exists. When it comes to Zeus, you think like an atheist.

Do you agree? Disagree?

No waaaaay, man! There's no way I'm a....


wait a minute... what are we talking about again?

Atheist? Eh... okay.

 

[Im an Atheist]

...with regard to one God or another. You know EXACTLY what it is like to be an atheist because that is your attitude toward conceptions of God you disagree with. If someone came up to a Christian, or a Jew, or a Muslim in this forum and proposed that Zeus ruled the earth, none of you would have any problem coming up with excellent arguments as to why it makes no sense that Zeus exists. When it comes to Zeus, you think like an atheist.

Do you agree? Disagree?

Disagree

It's not that as soon as another person came across claiming their God created the world that a religious person suddenly turns atheist. Its more to the point of wanting to defend their religion and what the believe in. Because, to be honest, if i was a christian and there was jew or a muslim on here, or another site proclaiming his God to be the overall ruler, i would be like, come on mate, "your God hasn't been proven!", "Just like my God".

So it's all about self belief more than anything.

IAA

 

[Kilgore Trout]

...with regard to one God or another. You know EXACTLY what it is like to be an atheist because that is your attitude toward conceptions of God you disagree with. If someone came up to a Christian, or a Jew, or a Muslim in this forum and proposed that Zeus ruled the earth, none of you would have any problem coming up with excellent arguments as to why it makes no sense that Zeus exists. When it comes to Zeus, you think like an atheist.

Do you agree? Disagree?

The only problem I've ever had with this concept, is that, for a true believer, they are incapable of making the connection between what they disbelieve in, and that somone can feel that way about what they think is the absolute truth. Whether it's a subconcious protection mechanism, or a short-circuit caused by accepting an irrational reality, they just cannot allow themselves to even see the perspective that they could be wrong.

 

[Enoch07]

Atheism is the position that deities do not exist,[1] or the rejection of theism.[2] In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities. From Wikipedia


Nope. Atheist do not believe in deities at all. So if you believe in any kind of god at all you are not an athiest.
​

 

[LuisDantas]

Atheism is the position that deities do not exist,[1] or the rejection of theism.[2] In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities. From Wikipedia


Nope. Atheist do not believe in deities at all. So if you believe in any kind of god at all you are not an athiest.
​

Sure. But the point of the OP is quite clear and unrelated to your objection.

A Christian does not believe in the existence of Krishna, so in respect to Krishna he is an atheist too.

Likewise, a Shintoist (or even a Muslim) does not believe that Jesus is God, so in respect to Jesus they are atheists, too.

So it is only natural to ask: why are they entitled to disbelieve each other's deities, but atheists are looked down upon for agreeing with both of them on those specific matters?

Why, exactly, are people expected to necessarily believe in some deity?

Why is not atheism more widely seen as the natural, sensible religious stance that it in fact has always been?

 

[Enoch07]

That is not what the definition states. If you believe in any type of deity you are not an atheist.

 

[themadhair]

That is not what the definition states. If you believe in any type of deity you are not an atheist.

Luis pretty much addressed this already:

Sure. But the point of the OP is quite clear and unrelated to your objection.

Pretty much everybody who commented in this thread understood what the OP was getting at.

 

[Enoch07]

Then everyone on this thread does not understand the definition of atheist. If you believe in a god. Any at all. You are not an atheist at all. You are a theist.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That is not what the definition states. If you believe in any type of deity you are not an atheist.

As has been pointed out in the thread, that depends. At various times, the prevailing definition for "atheist" meant things like "denial of the Roman gods" or "denial of the Christian God", regardless of whether the person believed in other gods.

However, I think the OP was referring more to the atheistic approach: the answer to "why isn't that atheist a Christian" is probably close to the answer to "why isn't that Christian a Hindu?"

 

[Willamena]

Then everyone on this thread does not understand the definition of atheist.

I'm with you, there. (Or perhaps they mistake the definition of "definition".)

 

[dogsgod]

.


I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer gods than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~ Stephen Roberts


.

 

[Willamena]

.
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer gods than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~ Stephen Roberts
.

You might be a person who likes to argue with Eternity.
A good way to begin such an Argument might be:

Why do You rule against me
Why do You silence me now
When will the Truth be on my lips
And the light be on my brow?
​

After some time has passed,
the answer to these questions percolating upwards
from the pit of your stomach,
or downwards from the crown of your hat,
or having been given, at last, the right pill,
you might begin to fall in love with the One
who asked them; and perhaps then
you will cry out, as so many of our parents did:

Blessed be the One
Who has sweetened
my Agrument.
​

~ Leonard Cohen

 

[Seven]

I'm not aware of any god concepts that are too complex for a four year old to grasp.

Stick around here for a while then

What's sophisticated, for example, about looking through an ancient text of superstitions that was written by middle eastern iron age tribesmen for an ancient belief for the purpose of applying to new information? I view it as unsophisticated and primitive.

Nothing, but as I said before your painting religious faith with a broad brush.