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Your position about Islam

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Sabour, Sep 30, 2014.

  1. Sabour

    Sabour Well-Known Member

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    I hope that only interested member about the topic would reply to it.

    I have been pointed to create this thread in this section so I would be able to debate things.



    Please note that some complex questions may require some time so I can get the answer to. I may also answer some question along with youtube videos.

    I wish questions would be more directed towards theology and about Islam rather than being about Muslims and what they seem to do.

    After all, not all muslims represent Islam. I would like to start with a misconception about Islam. This misconception is that we hate Jesus peace be upon him. As a matter of fact we don't and it is the other way round. Jesus peace be upon him is one of the greatest prophets in Islam and no one can be a muslim without believing in him and his miraculous birth from the mother Mary. There are far more misconceptions about Islam an here I would like to shed light and debate some of them


    Two things I wish to hear from members so we can debate when there is a room for debate. I would be basing my answers from the Quraan when possible.

    1- What is your position about Islam?

    2- Do you have any questions that you would like having answers to?

    3- Why do you think Islam is wrong?
     
  2. Viker

    Viker Caucasian detritus

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    1) I think Islam is alright. It seems to be going through a rough time right now.
    2) What is its version of an afterlife, heaven vs. hell, etc.?
    3) Can't say for myself if it is right or wrong.
     
  3. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    That is a nice set of questions right there. How separate should one be perceived from the other, and why?

    To which extent is Islam not the collective result of Muslim practice? If they are not one and the same, then why does Muslim practice matter?


    It is very much a Theistic, Abrahamic Faith. One that holds scripture in high regard. And one that assumes that everyone would convert ("revert") to it if it only gave the Quran and the Faith a fair chance at that.

    Which is to say, it is not for me, and it can never be a good fit for many people.


    How much of a conviction that converts are actually reverts do you have, and why?


    Because it demands belief in God and centers its doctrine on that belief.

    Because it holds scripture in such high regard.

    Because it expects everyone to be capable of belief in God or to benefit from it.

    Because it thinks of disbelievers as sinners.

    Because it separates the religion from the practice.
     
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  4. Tabb

    Tabb Active Member

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    My biggest objection to Islam is that it leaves itself open for criticism for misogyny. The separation of the sexes at the Masjid, for example, I find it to be an out of date custom that should be changed. I know that the Qur'an itself is very pro women but the religion as practiced falls short of supporting equality of the sexes.
     
  5. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    It started out great, then took a turn towards fundamentalism. From light to darkness.
     
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  6. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    My position is that you delude yourselves, if you really believe in flying horses and magic black meteorites from Heaven.

    Sure. In which direction do you pray if you find yourself around the antipode of the Mecca?

    For the same reasons Christianity and all other supernatural beliefs are wrong.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  7. sunrise123

    sunrise123 The sea remains the sea whatever the drop thinks
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    1. To me Islam is one of the great highways to God along with Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism and smaller religions. Anyone desiring to have true peace and love in his or her heart can walk any of these paths and will arrive at God's threshhold.

    2. One of the messages of Muslims is that the Quran should be read in the original Arabic because of the problem of translation. My classic example of why I agree with that is 17:100-104 which, depending on translation, indicates that the existence of the state of Israel is by the will of God and is proof we're living in the end times. If someone is a Muslim but can't read Quranic Arabic, how can you be sure that what you're reading is really what the Quran as we know it today says? This also applies to Hudud punishments which some groups interpret vastly differently than others.

    3. Since there is no one Islam, at least according to practitioners (Sunni, Shi'a and others), "Islam" is not wrong in my view. Muslims can misinterpret what it says taking verses out of context. Some Muslims ignore Hadith entirely, some believe certain ones are weak and other believe the same ones are strong.

    I've found that Muslims inclined to peace find the Quran enjoins them to peaceful behavior. Those whose hearts are filled with violence, find sections of the Quran which confirms their inner states.

    In that regard, I'll note a recent article about using religious dialog to undercut the mistaken religious beliefs of the fanatics and terrorists. This Cleric Thinks ISIS Can Be Defeated With More Religion

    So I'll state your question differently: how can a Muslim be sure that he or she is walking the true rather than the false path?
     
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  8. Levite

    Levite Higher and Higher

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    1. I think Islam is one of the great religions, the closest monotheistic religion to my own. I think it, like Christianity, is a descendant-religion of Judaism, and has much to offer in terms of valuable teachings and great potential to produce thoughtful and moral society.

    2. Not at the moment, but thanks.

    3. I don't believe in the concept of a "wrong religion." Judaism is not universalist-- it doesn't teach that it is the only right way, and all others are wrong-- we only hold that Judaism is the right way for Jews, and there may be many acceptable, appropriate, and effective ways for non-Jews. It seems to me that Islam would certainly be at the top of any list of good religions for a non-Jew to espouse, since it is monotheistic, and shares many of the values Judaism esteems.

    What I do think is wrong is the degree to which extremism and fundamentalism dominates Islam, or comes dangerously close to dominating Islam, in most Muslim countries. I don't think fundamentalism and extremism is a good thing in any religion, and I oppose it vigorously when I encounter it in Judaism. This is a problem that all religions suffer to one degree or another, to be sure-- it's not just Islam. But somehow it seems like a more acute problem in Islam than in many other religions at this particular juncture. I think mostly this is due to Islam still being a younger religion-- it's only around 1400-odd years since it got founded. Judaism at the turn of the Common Era (around the same age) was contentious, factional, full of problems; Christianity around 1400 or 1500 CE was violent, imperialistic, willfully ignorant and intolerant. I would imagine that Islam will evolve away from this level of extremism and fundamentalism over the next five or six hundred years. But it is a bit of a problem right now. I wish there were more Muslim voices calling for true moderation and progressiveness in Islam, as I sometimes hear from American and Canadian Muslims. But I can imagine it might be difficult to demand progress when such demands are so often met with violence and death. It's a tough situation for everyone, Muslims and non-Muslims.
     
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  9. Nakosis

    Nakosis Barnacle Bill the Sailor
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    My position is it doesn't matter what your beliefs are. You represent only yourself not a religion.

    People adapt their beliefs to their needs. You adapt Islam to your needs according to your determinism. If you are basically a good person, you will be a good person regardless of your religious beliefs. If you find meaning or purpose in Islam, it's none of my business. How you actually treat me and others, that is my business.
     
  10. YmirGF

    YmirGF Bodhisattva
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    That does sound like fun. :)

    In all seriousness, I have never heard this particular misconception. One need only study Islam at the most superficial level to understand that Jesus is #3 in the Islamic pecking order, after Allah and Muhammad. Christians hold Jesus to be supreme, by and large. Many see him as god in the flesh. Islamic theology, changes that long held POV and makes the Christian supreme figure secondary to the founder of Islam.

    It is my personal belief that Islam needs to be eradicated from the psyche of the human animal because it encourages fundamentalist fanaticism.

    If there is "no compulsion in religion" why did Gabriel allegedly compel Muhammad to "Read/Recite"? In some ways, Islam was founded on an act of compulsion.

    I'm not a fan of so-called "revelation". It's not something that works for me as an honest form of communication. That said, the revelations revealed to the mind of the individual tell us more about the mental state of that individual than they do about our relationship with the universe or any particular deity.
     
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  11. columbus

    columbus Conservative Catholic from Hell

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    I believe that Islam is a religion founded by Muhammad's followers out of a sense of respect and veneration that was nearly worship. They gathered a collection of poetry he had composed/collected, as many cultured men of his day did. This became the Quraan.
    The resulting culture became one of the most advanced the world had ever seen. Learning, ethics, art and architecture, all flourished and it became very peaceful and stable. So much so that the culture eventually stagnated and centuries later was surpassed by others, notably Christendom, which was throwing off it's religious dominance. Unfortunately, Islamic culture dragged many primitive cultural and ethical memes along with it.

    Tom
     
  12. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    1. I have no position. If you don't bother me, I won't bother you. Youi do what works for you, and I'll do what works for me.
    2. None.
    3. I don't. It's not for me, but it is for you. :)
     
  13. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Atheist Capitalist Libertarian Gearhead
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    1) I see it as;
    - A religion on generally equal footing with other major religions
    - Diverse in its interpretations.
    - Both overly prescriptive & contradictory in prescribing personal behavior.
    - I find that individual Muslims aren't defined by Islam.
    This poses some danger to both adherents & non-adherents.
    2) No questions. Just watching.
    3) It has no basis in fact.
     
  14. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    It is currently a stain in humanity in need of some pretty serious reforms quickly.




    Factual Plagiarized mythology that perverted the previous religions.


    Its required literalism requires fanaticism and fundamentalism which breeds terrorism and primitive and barbaric behavior.


    It is not clear in context, it is not clear in meaning. So its own followers have been killing each other since the book was forced by sword on the population.


    Its followers are required to place mythology before reality. Some people can do this and live educated productive lives, but for most it is an embarrassment on humanity as its follower can easily pervert its own plagiarized words.
     
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  15. Luca85

    Luca85 Believer in free will
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    1- What is your position about Islam?
    For a Christians all religions are equal and must be respected. So I respect Islam as much as I respect Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism etc etc

    2- Do you have any questions that you would like having answers to?
    yes. Don't you think that Muslims who live in European countries enjoy their religion much more than those who live in Islamic countries?
    I mean...given that they live in secular states

    3- Why do you think Islam is wrong?
    The source of Islam is the Qur'an. After decontextualizing the Qur'an, (which must be necessarily taken out of context) I conclude that Islam is a beautiful religion which has a lot in common with Christianity.
    so Islam is not wrong in my eyes.
    But...as I said...I think that Muslims deserve secular countries.
     
    #15 Luca85, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
  16. Nada

    Nada #

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    True Christians do not consider all religions equal.That would defeat the purpose of spreading Christianity as the one true religion.True Christians although do respect all religions.All people.This is what Christ taught.To do onto others as you would have them do onto you.The Golden Rule.

    Islam was invented 600 years after Jesus Christ walked the Earth.There is much plagiarism going on in the Quran.Many stories in the Quran have been taken from the Talmud.
     
  17. Shad

    Shad Well-Known Member

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    Is it a social construct like any other religion. It is used to propagate an isolated worldview on to a global scale. To dictate what is acceptable or not within a society. To consolidate power over the masses into the hands of a few. Since the construct is a religion people are less motivated or fear to question such a system unless individuals are in the out-group or non-conformist. More so the authority of such a construct is out of reach for humanity being an abstract concept itself. We can not question God, ask for clarification, etc. It also creates a system of authority within humanity which are required to explain the religion to the population it supposedly guides. It tell people what to think not how to think. Some people need it as they are unable to develop their own worldview or axioms for a moral code.

    It has both it's positives and negatives as any other social construct developed to dictate acceptable social interaction. It is the unquestionable aspect which I find troubling.
     
  18. FunctionalAtheist

    FunctionalAtheist Hammer of Reason

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    It is a collection of superstitious beliefs based on lack of knowledge.
    Not specifically to islam, but why do adhearants point at other adhearants and say the do not represent islam?
    Because it is superstitious beliefs, and it is based on a lack of knowledge.
     
    #18 FunctionalAtheist, Sep 30, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
  19. Alceste

    Alceste Vagabond

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    Since I assess all belief systems based on the behaviour and philosophy of adherents and you've specifically excluded "what Muslims do" from the discussion, I can't tell you what I think of it. I can say that based on that criteria, Islam seems to me basically the same as Christianity and Judaism. :)
     
  20. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    Do you think there are different levels of literalism and fanaticism between the 3 or are they all the same?
     
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