Would you consider Christianity slavery?

[Srivijaya]

Would you consider Christianity slavery?

No. Restrictions in the bible don't equate to slavery.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You must be a pretty pathetic atheist if you think that religion is slavery. I am not trying to be rude by the way. I am just bluntly stating that your atheism is not very solid rationally speaking.

Having been born in a Christian home and being a convert to Islam I just do not see how you can justify this belief. Islam's core tenet is literally known as Ibadah which translates to Slavery.

It teaches that we as humans are slaves and that I am merely an abd/slave before my rabb/lord/master. It completely promotes the dehumanizing of mankind int he most literal sense, and it does so efficiently as it controls every single aspect of one's life down to how they bathe themselves.

I just so no need to be so harsh on Christianity when it shows no such notion.

Just to clarify I can also understand that if you are a former Christian you may hold resentment toward the religion and be emotionally opposed to it which is understandable as I was never a great Christian to begin with. This does not mean that your emotional state should afflict what lies before you eyes as to be an atheist nowadays means you must explore the opportunities of religion as religion is now a diverse set of choices in Western society or any society for that matter.

. . . . good luck my friend.

Why did you leave christianity? They both have a servatude mentality. Both believe in One god, one creator. If a religion isnt (I wouldnt use the word slavery) about servatude by obligation and worship, why leads you to worship if not for god?

What is your humble (looks at post) um humble worship based on if not a servant to god because of His desire not your own?

Slave isnt a good word but without the derogatary meaning behind it, if you are not submitting to your master, such as in muslim prayer, what exactly are you doing as a "Muslim" both in word and in deed?

Serious questions. Maybe the word slave got you. Servant? Someone who submits to god? Aka Muslim?

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Christianity is whatever people want it to be. It can be an enlightening experience or some lunatic can twist it around and use it for their own agenda.

 

[dfnj]

Would you consider Christianity slavery?

I mean, I'm an atheist, and I consider it slavery, since there are so many restrictions in the Christian bible; no offense to Christians or anything, this is just my own opinion on the matter.

What's your opinion on the subject?

I think slavery is immoral on every level. The fact that the Bible got slavery morality wrong tells me the Bible was written by men and not by God.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

The implication here is slavery is morally okay.

I think Friedrich Nietzsche had some interesting criticisms of Christianity. He said Christianity was born in response to Roman oppression. It took hold in the minds of timid slaves who did not have the courage or strength to get hold of what they really wanted. The slaves could not admit to their own failings. So they clung to a philosophy that made virtue of cowardice. Everything the Christians wanted and wished they had in their lives for fulfillment was what was considered to be a sin. A position in the world, prestige, sex, intellectual mastery, personal wealth were too difficult or beyond their reach. The Christian slaves created a hypocritical creed denouncing what they wanted, too weak to fight for, while praising what they did not want, but did have in abundance, as being worth having. So in the Christian value system sexlessness turned into 'purity', weakness became "goodness," submission to authority became "obedience," and in Nietzsche's words, "not-being-able-take-revenge" turned into "forgiveness."

There's something really sick and evil about slavery in the Bible, authoritarianism, and sadomasochistic obeying of authority. Christian's claim their religion is based on a God of love but it does not appear to be so to me.

 

[David T]

Many of them don't even actually chose it, and instead do nothing more than going with the flows of social approval, and never really actually gave a moment to think about it. It's a trait of the slave mentality.

Isn't that just normal?

 

[Notanumber]

Indoctrination is a proven means of enslaving people.

Most religions have thrived on indoctrination and some still do even if the controlling ideology only calls itself a religion to further its aims.

 

[Euronymous]

What restrictions are you talking about ?

Well, these:
What are the seven deadly sins? | Bibleinfo.com

Well, at least some of the seven deadly sins are "restrictions".

 

[BilliardsBall]

Would you consider Christianity slavery?

I mean, I'm an atheist, and I consider it slavery, since there are so many restrictions in the Christian bible; no offense to Christians or anything, this is just my own opinion on the matter.

What's your opinion on the subject?

Yes! I am "chained and bound" to have a solid marriage, healthy lifestyle, cheerful and obedient children, extra family via the church, eternal rewards, and the opportunity to tell people how to get to Heaven and to grow towards self-actualized, powerful lives.

Where can I escape this horrible slavery to go to a life of existential misery, nihilism, drug and alcohol abuse, broken relationships, and trolling the religious on forums.

SOMEBODY HELP ME ESCAPE!

 

[Euronymous]

Yes! I am "chained and bound" to have a solid marriage, healthy lifestyle, cheerful and obedient children, extra family via the church, eternal rewards, and the opportunity to tell people how to get to Heaven and to grow towards self-actualized, powerful lives.

Okay, I know you're being sarcastic here, but I guess you do have a point here. I probably should of said that it is slavery only to certain people; for example: it can be slavery to kids (specifically pre-teens), since they're more likely to follow their parents' religious belief than think for themselves.

Where can I escape this horrible slavery to go to a life of existential misery, nihilism, drug and alcohol abuse, broken relationships, and trolling the religious on forums.

SOMEBODY HELP ME ESCAPE!

Well, not exactly, I mean, just because you deconvert from Christianity doesn't mean that your life is going to become terrible or anything.

 

[Vee]

Would you consider Christianity slavery?

I mean, I'm an atheist, and I consider it slavery, since there are so many restrictions in the Christian bible; no offense to Christians or anything, this is just my own opinion on the matter.

What's your opinion on the subject?

No. Christians make a choice to follow certain rules in order to obey God. The restrictions in the Bible are there for certain reasons but if you don't like them, you're free to live your life as you want. It is a personal choice. Slaves however, don't have a choice.

 

[syo]

no. christianity is self-discipline.

 

[Neb]

Would you consider Christianity slavery?


I mean, I'm an atheist, and I consider it slavery, since there are so many restrictions in the Christian bible; no offense to Christians or anything, this is just my own opinion on the matter.


What's your opinion on the subject?

I see it as freedom from slavery. Once a religion or belief starts adding man-made rules then it becomes a form of slavery. Atheism is a form of slavery. People think atheism is not a religion but it is a kind of a religious expression, an act of philosophical faith. Most of them can’t tell if they are agnostic or atheist.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Why did you leave christianity? They both have a servatude mentality. Both believe in One god, one creator.

I actually left Christianity because of my family and the fact my minister is a well known scam artist; Frederick K.C. Price. I just could not take it seriously and there wasn't a way for me to start and learning Christianity from a philosophical or theological perspective. I did all of this long after I left Christianity. within recent years I should add.

If a religion isnt (I wouldnt use the word slavery) about servatude by obligation and worship, why leads you to worship if not for god?

Just as you said, for the sake of god.

What is your humble (looks at post) um humble worship based on if not a servant to god because of His desire not your own?

I do not understand this. I worship a god to purge myself of my own woes and to acknowledge myself as a human and know that I am always short of any grandeur.

Slave isnt a good word but without the derogatary meaning behind it, if you are not submitting to your master, such as in muslim prayer, what exactly are you doing as a "Muslim" both in word and in deed?

This is debatable in both fiqh and ilm al-kalam for Islam since those involved in Tasawuf'iyyah say that it is to culminate character and rid oneself of evils which is where I agree. Outside of this the notion is that Allah desires our worship for unreasoned means and that it is a form to publicly display your iman, being your faith in Islam.

Obviously I believe the later is absolutely stupid.

Serious questions. Maybe the word slave got you. Servant? Someone who submits to god? Aka Muslim?

Just to clarify in Arabic the word abd has no conicaly difference than slave or servant. Ancient Greek had no distinction either until it reached the classical period. Many Muslims object to how you translate the word abd and I leave that to Muslims since I have long given up that religion.

To me it makes no difference what you call yourself in a religious sense. I just know that I would not dare measure my self worth in the cosmos as it is futile yet also beautiful knowing that I live in such a place.

 

[Quintessence]

That this could be considered a valid question is a testimony to how corrupted common parlance of the English language has become. Artful hyperbole is all well and good, but dilution of powerful words to the point they loose their intended meaning is an unfortunate fashion trend.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Well, these:
What are the seven deadly sins? | Bibleinfo.com

Well, at least some of the seven deadly sins are "restrictions".

Maybe you should give some, I don't know of any restrictions.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I actually left Christianity because of my family and the fact my minister is a well known scam artist; Frederick K.C. Price. I just could not take it seriously and there wasn't a way for me to start and learning Christianity from a philosophical or theol

Was there a inner reason why you left? For example, I am catholic by sacrament. There are many historical and political reasons that may be a reason to leave the Church. Many people left because of some of the priest abuse children and they reflect that to all priest and the Church as a whole.

Inwardly, I left because I do not believe god exists. In addition to human sacrifice, my heart wasnt aligned with the church since I dont believe in christ father.

Just as you said, for the sake of god.

This is what makes it slavery/servitude. It's for the sake of someone else rather than oneself. Slave, though, is more submission to an authority with/without one's content: force or coercion.

I do not understand this. I worship a god to purge myself of my own woes and to acknowledge myself as a human and know that I am always short of any grandeur.

I usually here it more god wants worshipers to worship him; it's for god rather than the other way around.

This is debatable in both fiqh and ilm al-kalam for Islam since those involved in Tasawuf'iyyah say that it is to culminate character and rid oneself of evils which is where I agree. Outside of this the notion is that Allah desires our worship for unreasoned means and that it is a form to publicly display your iman, being your faith in I

I'm not familiar with Islamic words, but Allah desiring worship for reasoned means still asks for your submission. It's the submission that makes it slavery not the reason behind it.

Obviously I believe the later is absolutely stupid.

Just to clarify in Arabic the word abd has no conicaly difference than slave or servant. Ancient Greek had no distinction either until it reached the classical period. Many Muslims object to how you translate the word abd

In America, we see servant as in employee: someone who works for something in return. Given our history, we see slave as someone forced to work (or be a servant) against his or her will. In Christianity, it's mental coercion rather than forced slavery.

As for how Muslims translate the word, I don't know. Unless there is another word for submit, I read that that is what the word Muslim means. To others it may not be a problem, to Americans it is.

To me it makes no difference what you call yourself in a religious sense. I just know that I would not dare measure my self worth in the cosmos as it is futile yet also beautiful kno

This doesn't reflect the reply you made to someone else.

Here is why I replied:

You must be a pretty pathetic atheist if you think that religion is slavery. I am not trying to be rude by the way. I am just bluntly stating that your atheism is not very solid rationally speaking.

Having been born in a Christian home and being a convert to Islam I just do not see how you can justify this belief. Islam's core tenet is literally known as Ibadah which translates to Slavery.

It teaches that we as humans are slaves and that I am merely an abd/slave before my rabb/lord/master. It completely promotes the dehumanizing of mankind int he most literal sense, and it does so efficiently as it controls every single aspect of one's life down to how they bathe themselves.​

How do you relate atheism to the comment of Christianity being considered as slavery?

It is what it is. Christianity is a religion of slavery. A person is devoted to christ out of obligation. If they are not devoted to christ, they have consequences. It's mental coercion that makes one a slave to receiving benefit over consequence (a form of guilt).

 

[Sha'irullah]

Was there a inner reason why you left? For example, I am catholic by sacrament. There are many historical and political reasons that may be a reason to leave the Church. Many people left because of some of the priest abuse children and they reflect that to all priest and the Church as a whole.

Inwardly, I left because I do not believe god exists. In addition to human sacrifice, my heart wasnt aligned with the church since I dont believe in christ father.

I would not call it an inner reason but simply put I could not rationalize the religion and I found every common person who professed deep religisioty to be very horrid in character. My own family being very low on the moral end and being abusive, racist and bigoted toward anyone. This was a trend I later found out existed for racial reasons and not religious per se, but before I was 10 I was completely turned off by it.

This is what makes it slavery/servitude. It's for the sake of someone else rather than oneself. Slave, though, is more submission to an authority with/without one's content: force or coercion.

I understand what you mean and more specifically by Ephesians 6:5
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."

The word used here is douluos or an earlier form, which I should also add I may have spelt wrong .

But even for me this is how I embrace worship and my mindset when I do so.

I usually here it more god wants worshipers to worship him; it's for god rather than the other way around.

It is arguable and I can understand why. Indeed worship may be a form of giving a god what is owed to him and to nobody else. For example in Islam it is forbidden to bow to another man and that is reserved for Allah only.

I'm not familiar with Islamic words, but Allah desiring worship for reasoned means still asks for your submission. It's the submission that makes it slavery not the reason behind it.

Fiqh is the study of legal theory in Islam, and kalam is rational theology of sorts but more so in usage for debate esclusively. Tasawuff'iyyah is a mystical sect of Islam that is not as focused on fiqh and is often called Sufism to Westerners although I find this inaccurate for various reasons.

In America, we see servant as in employee: someone who works for something in return. Given our history, we see slave as someone forced to work (or be a servant) against his or her will. In Christianity, it's mental coercion rather than forced slavery.

I personally see it as a matter of rights and the fact I do not plaster my morality onto a god. If I am truly created by the will of a god and this god is amoral and has a reason for my creation then surely I am not the judge of my own life or my affairs. Every action I do is coerced by this god and I am not able to set myself free from it ever. To me that is a form of slavery by default.

As for how Muslims translate the word, I don't know. Unless there is another word for submit, I read that that is what the word Muslim means. To others it may not be a problem, to Americans it is.

The word Muslim does mean submit. You are correct.

This doesn't reflect the reply you made to someone else.

Here is why I replied:

You must be a pretty pathetic atheist if you think that religion is slavery. I am not trying to be rude by the way. I am just bluntly stating that your atheism is not very solid rationally speaking.

Having been born in a Christian home and being a convert to Islam I just do not see how you can justify this belief. Islam's core tenet is literally known as Ibadah which translates to Slavery.

It teaches that we as humans are slaves and that I am merely an abd/slave before my rabb/lord/master. It completely promotes the dehumanizing of mankind int he most literal sense, and it does so efficiently as it controls every single aspect of one's life down to how they bathe themselves.​

How do you relate atheism to the comment of Christianity being considered as slavery?

I do not understand this question. I merely stated that Christianity does not have the rigidness that Islam does nor does it control someone's life as strictly as Islam. I am only making a comparison so the OP can understand how futile his argument is.

It is what it is. Christianity is a religion of slavery. A person is devoted to christ out of obligation. If they are not devoted to christ, they have consequences. It's mental coercion that makes one a slave to receiving benefit over consequence (a form of guilt).

I can understand this notion but I also find this more befitting of a criminal extortionist group if anything.

 

[InChrist]

Would you consider Christianity slavery?

I mean, I'm an atheist, and I consider it slavery, since there are so many restrictions in the Christian bible; no offense to Christians or anything, this is just my own opinion on the matter.

What's your opinion on the subject?

Well, the scriptures indicate that... everyone is a slave to sin, but freedom is found in Jesus Christ. That is my experience and perspective on the subject.

 

[InChrist]

I actually left Christianity because of my family and the fact my minister is a well known scam artist; Frederick K.C. Price. I just could not take it seriously and there wasn't a way for me to start and learning Christianity from a philosophical or theological perspective. I did all of this long after I left Christianity. within recent years I should add.

Wow...Frederick Price! He really is a false teacher and scam artist. So sad he was your minister and you only received a counterfeit version of Christianity, but I'd say that is what you left...a counterfeit.
Fred Price

 

[Sha'irullah]

Wow...Frederick Price! He really is a false teacher and scam artist. So sad he was your minister and you only received a counterfeit version of Christianity, but I'd say that is what you left...a counterfeit.
Fred Price

I know right. Do not get me wrong when I say that I do not believe in Christianity but there are ministers I respect and can disagree with at the same time. Joel Osteen is somebody I can respect even if I do not think he has any understanding in theology . . . at all. I can even respect Catholic and Orthodox clergy like Sister Vassa Larin and Bishop Robert Barron but at the end of the day if you have no meaningful outlook on life then anything seeping from your lips is necrotic and poisonous to society.

This is also wyhy I become overly skeptical of non-denominational churches as it has been used as an excuse for the issue of consistency. It is often a message to the world that hides your lack of principles in religion, be it theological, ethical or philosophical.

But also thanks for the link, it is actually pretty interesting and I am really interesting in doing a one on one debate with a Christian. @1robin does not seem to post here much anymore which is a bummer