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Would you consider Christianity slavery?

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Being an atheist is slave because the atheist is a slave to the limited intellect.

No. We have too much information to choose from. Christianity is a slave to limited resources that contradict its own teaching. So the christian is only bound by what god tells them is right and wrong. An atheist doesn't have that restriction. We have more mental freedom to learn more about things from satanism to judaism to buddhism and even outside of religion from evolution to the first life coming from the oceans. Many christians won't even touch a book if satanism was written on the cover. I mean, if it were the bible and I put a cover over it and marked it witchcraft, no christian I know would pick it up. Christians have restricted knowledge depending on how they interpret scripture and god's laws for them and others.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Would you consider Christianity slavery?

I mean, I'm an atheist, and I consider it slavery, since there are so many restrictions in the Christian bible; no offensive to Christians or anything, this is just my own opinion on the matter.

What's your opinion on the subject?
Would you consider Christianity slavery?

I mean, I'm an atheist, and I consider it slavery, since there are so many restrictions in the Christian bible; no offensive to Christians or anything, this is just my own opinion on the matter.

What's your opinion on the subject?
Dysfunctional or normal..... Same thing.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
Would you consider Christianity slavery?

I mean, I'm an atheist, and I consider it slavery, since there are so many restrictions in the Christian bible; no offensive to Christians or anything, this is just my own opinion on the matter.

What's your opinion on the subject?
yes, in some denomination it is enslavement, or idolatry to a formed, created thing. its an addiction. love does not enslave, does not control, doesn't harm, doesn't entrap.

love is a steward, a servant. it isn't an overlord, it doesn't set its self as the exception but the example.
 

taykair

Active Member
Folks can become enslaved to practically anything: Religion, political faction, money, sex, drugs, rock-and-roll. (Well, perhaps not rock-and-roll, but you get the idea.)

It's even possible to be so enslaved by one's own way of thinking that one takes delight in harassing others whose only fault is that they happen to disagree.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Would you consider Christianity slavery?

I mean, I'm an atheist, and I consider it slavery, since there are so many restrictions in the Christian bible; no offensive to Christians or anything, this is just my own opinion on the matter.

What's your opinion on the subject?
Not slavery, but it is sometimes coercive.

No, because people have a choice whether to be Christians. Real slaves have no choice.
The choice of whether to be Christian is often less than completely free.

To someone who actually believes in it, the threat of Hell is infinitely worse than pointing a literal gun to their head. If we acknowledge that a choice made under a threat of death is no choice at all, why wouldn’t we say the same thing about a choice made under threat of a fate worse than death?
 

Politesse

Amor Vincit Omnia
Would you consider Christianity slavery?

I mean, I'm an atheist, and I consider it slavery, since there are so many restrictions in the Christian bible; no offensive to Christians or anything, this is just my own opinion on the matter.

What's your opinion on the subject?
No. A slave is someone who labors without reward, or someone whose will does not belong to them. I do not feel that either are true of myself. It is true that Jesus had much counsel to give on moral behavior, but there is no punishment for disobeying rules, only natural consequences for doing evil. Even if one believes in hell, disobeying rules about what fabrics to wear or washing the outside of the cup is not how one gets there; there is One who pays the price for all. We do good because it is the right thing to do, same as anyone else, and we had a good teacher.

Your question is not offensive; St Paul himself asks it in his letters and comes to nearly the opposite conclusion as myself. But his empire was a violent one, those of his generation were raised to think of slavery in very different terms than we.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
You must be a pretty pathetic atheist if you think that religion is slavery. I am not trying to be rude by the way. I am just bluntly stating that your atheism is not very solid rationally speaking.

Having been born in a Christian home and being a convert to Islam I just do not see how you can justify this belief. Islam's core tenet is literally known as Ibadah which translates to Slavery.

It teaches that we as humans are slaves and that I am merely an abd/slave before my rabb/lord/master. It completely promotes the dehumanizing of mankind int he most literal sense, and it does so efficiently as it controls every single aspect of one's life down to how they bathe themselves.

I just so no need to be so harsh on Christianity when it shows no such notion.

Just to clarify I can also understand that if you are a former Christian you may hold resentment toward the religion and be emotionally opposed to it which is understandable as I was never a great Christian to begin with. This does not mean that your emotional state should afflict what lies before you eyes as to be an atheist nowadays means you must explore the opportunities of religion as religion is now a diverse set of choices in Western society or any society for that matter.

. . . . good luck my friend.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
I should also add that I am extremely devoted to my religious path and I have no problems stating that I feel enslaved to the gods no different than any Muslim. To me this is a very natural relationship as humiliation cures all notions of power, grandeur and sin one may have. I would not profess having a god as a friend because I am no equal and I come to any god in pure obedience to its teachings and without any protest to their rules.

When I was a Muslim I lived my life in such a manner because I believed it to be the perfect life and as ordained by a vastly superior being. Now I do so again but with a fresh life, open eyes and a sharp mind.

What is written under my username, "Taq'dim ila al-Alihah" means, "Submission to the Gods." This is the ideal my understanding of the humility one must have when enduring this concept of religion. It is a great promoter of a selfless human being.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
When I was a child, my parents put restrictions on me. It didn't mean I was a slave. It meant they loved me and didn't want me to get hurt. I'm no longer a child, but I can still use guidance. My religious beliefs provide that.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Would you consider Christianity slavery?

I mean, I'm an atheist, and I consider it slavery, since there are so many restrictions in the Christian bible; no offensive to Christians or anything, this is just my own opinion on the matter.

What's your opinion on the subject?

No. There are so many restrictions in school, too. Slavery? How about when you have a job? No, real slavery is quite different.
 

Tryndakai

New Member
TL:DR: Not slavery, because the "restrictions" are good guidelines for a healthy and happy life, and don't actually hold us back, but raise us toward something.

Super long version:
Interesting question and set of responses so far. What I gather of the discussion to this point is that people are discussing primarily whether Christianity is or feels "optional" to those who are raised or led to believe in it. But in your first post, you mention "restrictions" as the initial basis of the question, "Is Christianity slavery?" I would like to speak to that part of the question if I can. Some others have brought up children as a brief analogy, but not really gone into why it should be a good analogy or to what purpose. I plan to explore that a little more.

Primarily, the idea that when raising a child, you put restrictions on them, such as "don't touch the stove" and "don't run into the road," as well as more arguably subjective ones such as "don't talk back," "brush your teeth," "take your shoes off before you come inside," "we don't eat pork/processed sugar/caffeine/gluten in this house" or whatever you like.

So the question is, what are these rules for? What is the purpose of restrictions of any kind, ever? Are all restrictions by definition a form of slavery? Perhaps so, if you're going with definition #2 from Merriam Webster: "submission to a dominating influence," or a similar definition. As others have brought up, if you want to say restriction=enslavement, then any system created to define or sustain civilization (e.g. government, communities, educational systems, etc.), which all have rules of admission, conduct, etc. are forms of slavery. That in and of itself is an interesting debate, and could go on for a while.

However, if I may, I'm going to qualify my remaining thoughts with the idea that rules=/=enslavement, at least not automatically. We'll call slavery forced obedience/submission, generally for the purpose of benefitting the master first, and the slave second or not at all. That is a quick-and-dirty definition of what slavery means to me, at least.

So back to child-rearing: the pat answers for why we give kids rules are A: to keep them safe, and B: to train them into "productive members of society" or "well-balanced adults" or "self-motivated, self-actualizing individuals" or whatever you consider the goal when raising a child to adulthood. (Perhaps "slavery" in this case could include parents who want to raise "clones" of themselves or "trophy children," where the child is seen and treated more as an asset to the parent than as a person unto themselves. And any abusive relationships.) Most parenting philosophies agree that children need rules in order to grow into emotionally stable, functioning adults. Just watch a few episodes of Nanny 911 to see how they apply this idea, and the children genuinely seem more happy and emotionally capable when rules have been implemented. So that's interesting . . . and again, open to a long debate in and of itself.

The point I'm driving at is why do the rules and restrictions exist, in parenting and in religion, specifically Christianity? If you agree that raising children with rules has a real and lasting benefit to the child, then we can explore whether there is a similar purpose to God's Law within Christianity.

So next we ask: Whom does the system benefit most, the individuals ascribing to it, or the God and/or clergy enforcing it? Lots and lots of debate openings here, varying wildly across sects and eras of Christianity. And totally valid points for both sides. There have absolutely been times in Christian history where the leadership has used theology to "enslave" their people through false doctrine, manipulative practices, etc. Not gonna deny that at all. However there is also the argument that not everyone who proclaims themselves Christian, even at high levels of leadership, are actually followers of Christ. Again, lots of debate openings.

So, a final qualification for the purpose of this argument, which may require a temporary suspension of disbelief for you, is that Christianity is "True." As in, God does exist, and Jesus literally died for our sins, etc. If, as a Given, Christianity is true, then why does it have rules? Why does God require certain behaviors? Is it for His benefit (in which case it's like the slavery of a bad parent), or is it for ours (implying that there is an end goal, similar to capable adulthood, which the rules help guide us toward)?

The beliefs to which I ascribe assert that, yes, God is real, and yes, there is a point to the rules. (You'll want to know now that I'm LDS, aka Mormon, aka a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints). That point is to, first, return to our Father in Heaven (in a very literal, familial sense, which is a further reason the child-rearing analogy is so very fitting--he is our actual spiritual Father, and loves us just as we would/should love our own offspring. He doesn't want us to be estranged forever. Families are a very central part of Heaven--both God's family with us as His children, and our families here, with whom we will want to be, and can be, connected forever.)

And second, that there is a more "adult" stage for our souls, which can only be achieved through coming to Earth to be "tested." Otherwise, why create people at all? If we're not being "raised" into something, then there really is no point to the rules other than to allow God to surround himself with "perfect little angels," which would seem to be more for His benefit than for ours, and therefore arguably within my simplistic definition of slavery. I hold to a tenet that says there is more to the afterlife than simply playing harps and being blissful in our holier-than-thou-ness while everyone else burns in an arbitrary Hell. There is more progress, and more to achieve. And also, side note: those who don't "fall in line" generally don't burn in Hell--they simply live in some version of harp-Heaven (so to speak, IMO), where they're content with what they've achieved and don't progress any further. Like children who become stable adults, with no major health or financial issues, but don't really bother to do anything more with themselves. Not a terrible place . . . just not anything *more.*

SO.... Christianity as a religion *has* indeed been used to enslave in the past, and in the present. But belief in Christ is not inherently enslavement, and "Christianity" itself as an idea and/or a religion (really several hundred religions/sects) is also not slavery, in my opinion, because if you believe it, then you believe there is a *purpose* to the rules, and you follow them not because you fear reprisal, but because you believe you are being benefitted by them. The idea of brainwashing etc. as part of the argument, if you take as a Given that Christianity is *not* "True," then you have to get a lot more nuanced in your examination of different sects, eras, etc. to determine whether "Christianity" as a blanket statement can be described as beneficial to the individual versus the leadership. I would argue that it sometimes is "slavery" in that sense, but more often than not it is not. Because generally rules like "don't do drugs," "don't murder," "don't have sex outside of marriage," etc. have been proven through multitudes of scientific studies to have very real and measurable benefits to the individual, including health, emotional, societal, financial, etc. So for the most part, they are actually decent life guidelines. (Feel free to debate this, too.)

Anyway. You asked for thoughts. Those are mine. Thanks for reading. :)
 

Euronymous

SSilence
You must be a pretty pathetic atheist if you think that religion is slavery. I am not trying to be rude by the way. I am just bluntly stating that your atheism is not very solid rationally speaking.

I didn't say religion in general is slavery, I am talking about specifically Christianity here, although most other religion is slavery too when you think about it. (Well, except LaVeyan Satanism and other religions like that)

Having been born in a Christian home and being a convert to Islam I just do not see how you can justify this belief. Islam's core tenet is literally known as Ibadah which translates to Slavery.

It teaches that we as humans are slaves and that I am merely an abd/slave before my rabb/lord/master. It completely promotes the dehumanizing of mankind int he most literal sense, and it does so efficiently as it controls every single aspect of one's life down to how they bathe themselves.

Well, I mean, there are a lot of restrictions in the Christian bible to the point where it is slavery. Maybe not
physical slavery, but it is mental slavery.

I just so no need to be so harsh on Christianity when it shows no such notion.

There are a lot of restrictions in the Christian bible.

Just to clarify I can also understand that if you are a former Christian you may hold resentment toward the religion and be emotionally opposed to it which is understandable as I was never a great Christian to begin with. This does not mean that your emotional state should afflict what lies before you eyes as to be an atheist nowadays means you must explore the opportunities of religion as religion is now a diverse set of choices in Western society or any society for that matter.

. . . . good luck my friend.

Yes, I am a former Christian, but no, I don't hold resentment against Christianity or any religion for that matter.
 

Euronymous

SSilence
No. There are so many restrictions in school, too. Slavery? How about when you have a job? No, real slavery is quite different.

Well, you can drop out of school when you become legal age, and you can quit your job too, but when it comes
to Christianity, it is a bit different.

You see, it may not be physical slavery (i.e. chains, locks, cages, etc); however, it is mental slavery when you think about it. I mean, if you have been a Christian for many years and decided to give up on Christianity, then what about your fear for hell or any of that stuff, I mean, wouldn't that scare you right back into Christianity?
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Would you consider Christianity slavery?

I mean, I'm an atheist, and I consider it slavery, since there are so many restrictions in the Christian bible; no offensive to Christians or anything, this is just my own opinion on the matter.

What's your opinion on the subject?
No.

Slavery is the owning of another human being as your personal property. Christianity is a fairly broad religion with a an equally wide range of adherents and interpretations, none of which - that I am aware of - utilize the doctrine as a form of owning people as property. Christianity has been used to justify slavery, but to call Christianity itself slavery is a far too misleading and simplistic.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
I didn't say religion in general is slavery, I am talking about specifically Christianity here, although most other religion is slavery too when you think about it. (Well, except LaVeyan Satanism and other religions like that)

Sorry I specifically meant Christianity, I am just used to hearing atheists complain about religion as a whole.

Well, I mean, there are a lot of restrictions in the Christian bible to the point where it is slavery. Maybe not
physical slavery, but it is mental slavery.

No.

The Bible does not have its own banking theory. It does not tell you which hand to eat with. It does not tell you how to kill a person and how to execute them. It does not tell you how to bathe. It does not tell you what is permissible to put in your hair or what it can be colored with. It does not tell you what clothes to wear in the amount of detail you think it does.

Christianity and the Bible has some religious observances sure but it is no where near Islam. It is not even 10% of Islam and skeptical at 5%.

400px-Sejarah_Islam_Imam_adz-Dzahabi_53_jilid.png


Christians have the Bible while Muslims have collection of Sunnah and ahadith like this. This is a collection entirely made up of do's and don'ts. It is restrictive in the order, number, sequence, language and mannerisms you are in when you pray and at what time you pray.

One kitab like Sahih al-Bukhari has more stipulations in it than the entire Bible and it is only one of the six Kutub al-Sittah. I am not trying to tell you whose book is bigger but your harsh language is just not comparable in any regard to slavery.


There are a lot of restrictions in the Christian bible.

There are some and when taken into account how many Christians practice them it is not much. It does not burden me at all to take in the traditions of the Bible as they are minuscule.

Yes, I am a former Christian, but no, I don't hold resentment against Christianity or any religion for that matter.

I am not trying to tell you how to feel or how to think but when I was an atheist I thought I was being fair in how I treated religion. It astonished me how much I was just being an ***. Again I am not trying to throw insults your way but I do want you to understand the scope of religions and just how vast and varying they are when you use strong language like slavery because looking back on it I find Christianity to be very mild even compared to Buddhism and I have studied both.
 

Derek500

Wish I could change this to AUD
Would you consider Christianity slavery?

I mean, I'm an atheist, and I consider it slavery, since there are so many restrictions in the Christian bible; no offensive to Christians or anything, this is just my own opinion on the matter.

What's your opinion on the subject?
Yes.
Where I was raised any person without official testimonials from some kind of clergy person was not allowed to study, work or do anything apart from begging at the nearest traffic light.
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
To someone who actually believes in it, the threat of Hell is infinitely worse than pointing a literal gun to their head. If we acknowledge that a choice made under a threat of death is no choice at all, why wouldn’t we say the same thing about a choice made under threat of a fate worse than death?
Belief in Hell is still a belief and if one fails to believe in Christianity, the Hell belief drops as well. It may be ingrained and hard to lose, but it is still ultimately up to the individual. I guess some folks are just weaker than others.
 

Derek500

Wish I could change this to AUD
Belief in Hell is still a belief and if one fails to believe in Christianity, the Hell belief drops as well. It may be ingrained and hard to lose, but it is still ultimately up to the individual. I guess some folks are just weaker than others.
So, a weak hell awaits someone with weak beliefs?
 
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