1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Will there be public nudity in heaven?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Spiderman, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    19,400
    Ratings:
    +9,204
    Religion:
    Buddhistic Panenthetic Jesusonian
    I'll take it...
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  2. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Messages:
    6,811
    Ratings:
    +1,322
    Religion:
    Christian
    Opinion noted.
     
  3. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    5,825
    Ratings:
    +3,010
    Religion:
    Not yours.
    How do you know there is a heaven? My understanding is that the gates of heaven were a one-way, but in that it means no one has seen it to know if it is there in the first place. :D

    Secondly, if everyone else is naked why does it matter if you are? :D It's like the locker room...
     
  4. Sanzbir

    Sanzbir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,146
    Ratings:
    +612
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Can you be naked if you lack a body??

    I honestly have no idea if having no body would make you "naked' or "not naked".
     
  5. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    25,164
    Ratings:
    +16,316
    Religion:
    None
    Some opinions are more fact based than others, though. Angelic garb isn't much described in Scripture.

    I once saw an impressive painting. Archangel Michael driving out Adam and Eve. Michael was depicted as a huge muscular well endowed male clad only in a sword. He wasn't the one with body shame issues. He hadn't eaten the fruit.
    Tom
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Sanzbir

    Sanzbir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,146
    Ratings:
    +612
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Opinion noted.

    No, but seriously, the Bible does mention certain angels clothed in linen like in

    "I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz. His body also was like beryl,his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult." (Daniel 10:5-6)

    And from the color of raw linen I can see why you'd assume that means white. Although most angels when described with clothing are described as also wearing GOLD in addition to their WHITE. So your opinion is only half-right where clothed angels are concerned.

    However, the bible also explicitly describes angels who clothe themselves not in clothing, but shroud their bodies with their wings.

    "Such were their faces. Their wings were spread out above; each had two touching another being, and two covering their bodies." (Ezekiel 1:11)

    I suppose you could assume angelic wings are white, but given the vast array of avian feather coloration I think that'd be jumping the gun.

    Plus you have angelic beings like the Wheels or Ophanim who could not possibly wear clothing due to their form:

    "Now as I looked at the living beings, behold, there was one wheel on the earth beside the living beings, for each of the four of them. The appearance of the wheels and their workmanship was like sparkling beryl, and all four of them had the same form, their appearance and workmanship being as if one wheel were within another. Whenever they moved, they moved in anyof their four directions without turning as they moved. As for their rims they were lofty and awesome, and the rims of all four of them were full of eyes round about. Whenever the living beings moved, the wheels moved with them. And whenever the living beings rose from the earth, the wheels rose also. Wherever the spirit was about to go, they would go in that direction . And the wheels rose close beside them; for the spirit of the living beings was in the wheels. Whenever those went, these went; and whenever those stood still, these stood still. And whenever those rose from the earth, the wheels rose close beside them; for the spirit of the living beings was in the wheels." (Ezekiel 1:15-21)

    Sorry, but no matter what your opinions are, you cannot expect me, surely, to think that such a being with such a shape could wear pants. :D :D :D
     
    #46 Sanzbir, Oct 12, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  7. Sanzbir

    Sanzbir Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,146
    Ratings:
    +612
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Yeah, he's definitely wrong since at various points in time in the bible angels are described as clothed by their own wings or, in certain cases like Ezekiel 1:15-21, they are described in such a way that clothes simply are not possible.

    Buuuuuuuut... I do have to give him SOME credit because contrary to the claim here, the subject of white clothes and heavenly beings DOES come up in a few other places other than John 20:12.

    Daniel 7:9 for example "I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow And the hair of His head like pure wool His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire."

    Or Revelation 4:4 "Around the throne were twenty-four thrones; and upon the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white garments, and golden crowns on their heads."

    Or Revelation 7:9 'After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;"

    And there's plenty more too, especially in revelation, describing people or things in heaven wearing white.

    And if we take into account the color of raw linen, we could also make a case where we could assume the angels described as wearing linen are wearing white as well. At least off-white. "I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz. His body also was like beryl,his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flamingtorches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult." (Daniel 10:5-6)

    Though, honestly, since golden jewelry is also mentioned along with the white robes, to say they "wear white" is only half the story since most often it is wearing 'white and gold". And the gold is explicitly pure gold, so there's no "maybe it's white-gold" cop-out either.:p

    So yeah, I can see where he's coming from. He's definitely wrong in his assertion that everything wears white, as Cherubs and Seraphs use their own wings to shroud their body, and Ophanim are just straight-up eldritch wheels with no possible way to put on pants, but there still are quite a lot of white-clad heaven residents in the book, so I can understand where he got that idea.
     
  8. Spiderman

    Spiderman Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2014
    Messages:
    14,997
    Ratings:
    +3,090
    Religion:
    American State-Shinto and Roman Catholicism Alliance (Axis)
    It would make sense that when Heavenly beings appear to human beings, that they are wearing some sort of a garment , because with our fallen nature , we see nudity as being indecent.

    In heaven , where no one has a Fallen nature, they very well may be nude, they just wouldn't appear to humans in their birthday suit, due to our fallen nature, we might lust after them after all ... Or our gaze might be fixed on certain areas of the body to distract us from the message being given.
     
  9. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    34,162
    Ratings:
    +19,294
    So, people who gain entrance into heaven are essentially castrated?
     
  10. Mister Silver

    Mister Silver Faith's Nightmare

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,834
    Ratings:
    +1,602
    Religion:
    Infidel Savant
    If there's no nudity in heaven, enjoy it while you're living. That's the purpose of life, to enjoy what's here on earth.
     
  11. Politesse

    Politesse Amor Vincit Omnia

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,617
    Ratings:
    +1,167
    Religion:
    Startlingly Ecclectic
    His disciples said: On what day will you be revealed to us, and on what day shall we see you? Jesus said: When you unclothe yourselves and are not ashamed, and take your garments and lay them beneath your feet like the little children (and) trample on them, then [you will see] the Son of the Living One, and you will not be afraid."

    Gospel of Thomas, saying 37
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  12. Politesse

    Politesse Amor Vincit Omnia

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2010
    Messages:
    1,617
    Ratings:
    +1,167
    Religion:
    Startlingly Ecclectic
    But the same people who don't want to have fun in heaven, don't want to have fun down here either...
     
  13. Mister Silver

    Mister Silver Faith's Nightmare

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2017
    Messages:
    1,834
    Ratings:
    +1,602
    Religion:
    Infidel Savant
    Their loss.
     
  14. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    30,265
    Ratings:
    +5,959
    Religion:
    LDS Christian
    Here's something you might find interesting then:

    In the Clementine Homilies, a Jewish-Christian document based on a second-century source, the Apostle Peter is speaking to a non-believer by the name of Simon. Simon wants to know if Peter actually believes that God has a human form and that mankind was literally created in His image. Here's how it goes:

    And Simon said: "I should like to know, Peter, if you really believe that the shape of man has been moulded after the shape of God." And Peter said: "I am really quite certain, Simon, that this is the case... It is the shape of the just God."

    For He has shape, and He has every limb primarily and solely for beauty's sake, and not for use. For He has not eyes that He may see with them; for He sees on every side, since He is imcomparably more brilliant in His body than the visual spirit which is in us, and He is more splendid than everything, so that in comparison with Him the light of the sun may be reckoned as darkness. Nor has He ears that He may hear; for He hears, perceives, moves, energizes, acts on every side. But He has the most beautiful shape on account of man, that the pure in heart, may be able to see Him, that they may rejoice because they suffered. For He moulded man in His own shape as in the greatest seal, in order that he may be the ruler and lord of all, and that all may be subject to him."


    Peter believed that God's human-like form was "solely for beauty's sake, and not for use." From that, I would gather that we will appear in heaven much as we appear here on earth (minus our imperfections). Now, you'll have to excuse me if it seems like I'm just copping out with a bunch of quotes from other people. It's just that they've expressed themselves better than I can. I have a book by a Protestant (I believe) author, Anthony DeStefano, called "A Travel Guide to Heaven." I bought it several years ago and have found some intriguing similarities between his perspective and my own. Chapter two of that book is called, "Luxury Accommodation -- Your New Body." He talks about what we human beings are going to look like once we return to Heaven. Here are a couple of paragraphs from that chapter:

    "...We'll be able to recognize each other in heaven as the people we knew on earth. In not going to stop being Anthony DeStefano when I get to heaven. I'm going to have my body, my mind, my memories, my personality, my consciousness. I'm going to be me. Whatever makes me the person I am is what I'm going to keep in heaven.

    The point is that people don't love their identify when they go to heaven. And that includes their physical identity. If you have brown eyes now, you're taking them with you to heaven. If you're a redhead now, you'll be a redhead in heaven. If you are white, black, or yellow now, you'll have that coloring in heaven....

    In other words, if you want to know what you're going to look like in heaven, go take a look in the mirror right now!

    But what if I hate the way I look now, you say? What if there are things about my body that I want to change -- that I need to change -- if I am going to be perfectly happy in heaven? Do you mean I have to stay the way I am now for all eternity? Absolutely not!

    You have to trust God just a little bit. He knows better than you what is wrong with your body and how is should be fixed so that you will be happiest in heaven. 'Do not be anxious,' Christ said. 'If God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you?"


    Maybe he's wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the Apostle Peter was wrong. Who knows?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  15. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    8,211
    Ratings:
    +3,254
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Sounds like an incredibly boring existence.
     
  16. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Messages:
    6,811
    Ratings:
    +1,322
    Religion:
    Christian
    You have no idea what angels and people do in heaven on a daily basis. How can you so easily conclude this?
     
  17. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    18,241
    Ratings:
    +21,237
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    How could it be heaven without nudity?
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2015
    Messages:
    8,211
    Ratings:
    +3,254
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Nor can anyone else......But I was half joking.
     
  19. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    34,162
    Ratings:
    +19,294
    Play the harp and give god sponge baths?
     
  20. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Messages:
    6,811
    Ratings:
    +1,322
    Religion:
    Christian
    Well, you're right, we don't know. I think the Bible doesn't tell us too much about what goes on in heaven daily for at least two reasons. One, I think God wants to surprise us with His gift of eternal life and two, I don't think He wants anyone to love Him just for the gift of eternal life. That's my take on it, of course I get it that you don't believe it, I'm just elaborating.
     
Loading...