Will the Free Market save us from the Corona Virus?

[exchemist]

Her proposal died, likely due to other events involving Bill
capturing everyone's attention. But I also recall in Canuckistan
when people were using medical tourism because they couldn't
buy services.
I recall an old old news item about how long the waiting list
was for CAT scans, but that one could pay for them & get
prompt service for pets.
Please don't ask for links....it was long ago, & as I recall,
Canuckistan took measures to avoid that embarrassment.

Yes in the UK we have that sort of problem, for elective procedures. The NHS is underfunded and no government in recent memory has had the balls to level with the public and tell them they need to dip their hands in their pocket and pay more for it, now that we all live longer....thanks to the health service! Hence middle class people quite often pay for private medical insurance to get elective procedures done more quickly.

It is only people on the left who argue this is somehow immoral. But in fact, a lot of best doctors in the NHS stay with it because they can top up their basic NHS earnings with private work, and because they need to be in the NHS because that remains where their reputations are made as doctors.

The system really hinges on the NHS being at the core, with optional bolt-on extras. If this principle were undermined by allowing people to opt out of the taxation and arrange rival emergency medicine privately, the whole system would fragment and disintegrate.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes in the UK we have that sort of problem, for elective procedures. The NHS is underfunded and no government in recent memory has had the balls to level with the public and tell them they need to dip their hands in their pocket and pay more for it, now that we all live longer....thanks to the health service! Hence middle class people quite often pay for private medical insurance to get elective procedures done more quickly.

It is only people on the left who argue this is somehow immoral. But in fact, a lot of best doctors in the NHS stay with it because they can top up their basic NHS earnings with private work, and because they need to be in the NHS because that remains where their reputations are made as doctors. But the system really hinges on the NHS being at the core, with optional bolt-on extras.

If this principle were undermined by allowing people to opt out of the taxation and arrange rival emergency medicine privately, the whole system would fragment and disintegrate.

Many people hate capitalism, but it does sometimes fill the void
left by leaders who don't quite achieve the balance we'd like.

 

[exchemist]

Many people hate capitalism, but it does sometimes fill the void
left by leaders who don't quite achieve the balance we'd like.

When appropriately controlled, yes indeed. Capitalism is like nuclear energy: it provides tremendous energy to make all our lives better, but it needs to be channelled and controlled to avoid disasters. We see this in everything from antitrust law, to consumer protection and protection of employee rights, or in health, safety and environmental legislation.

So Adam Smith was half-wrong, really.

 

[Revoltingest]

When appropriately controlled, yes indeed. Capitalism is like nuclear energy: it provides tremendous energy to make all our lives better, but it needs to be channelled and controlled to avoid disasters. We see this in everything from antitrust law, to consumer protection and protection of employee rights, or in health, safety and environmental legislation.

So Adam Smith was half-wrong, really.

I don't recall....did he oppose all regulation?
"Channelled & controlled" sounds like a command economy.
How about "setting limits on behavior"?
Then let the invisible hand reign supreme within them.

 

[exchemist]

I don't recall....did he oppose all regulation?

There was none in his day. And a right mess we got into, during the Industrial Revolution, as a result.

But what I was getting at, slightly tongue-in-cheek, is Smith's idea, referred to in the OP, of the "invisible hand " of the market producing benefits through the self-interest of market participants. One obviously needs a lot of control on the operation of this "invisible hand". Smith himself would have realised that, I expect. It seems to be that some of his modern free market disciples tend to ignore or downplay that aspect of things and affect to think that just about all government is bad.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Why do you think there must be profit? Certainly healthcare workers should be paid well, but IMO profiting on sickness and disease seems wrong.

The health care industry is one of the most profitable sectors in the USA.
It is motivated by profit.

 

[Revoltingest]

There was none in his day. And a right mess we got into, during the Industrial Revolution, as a result.

There was actually a great deal of economic regulation in very
early Ameristan, eg, wage controls. But it was quite localized.

Btw, I don't have a link for this. It's something I've
read about when researching machinery history.

But what I was getting at, slightly tongue-in-cheek, is Smith's idea, referred to in the OP, of the "invisible hand " of the market producing benefits through the self-interest of market participants. One obviously needs a lot of control on the operation of this "invisible hand". Smith himself would have realised that, I expect. It seems to be that some of his modern free market disciples tend to ignore or downplay that aspect of things and affect to think that just about all government is bad.

Beware anyone who looks to long dead prophets for absolute truth.
Economics, physics, biology....such things benefit from understandings
which improve over time.

 

[exchemist]

There was actually a great deal of economic regulation in very
early Ameristan, eg, wage controls. But it was quite localized.

Btw, I don't have a link for this. It's something I've
read about when researching machinery history.

Beware anyone who looks to long dead prophets for absolute truth.
Economics, physics, biology....such things benefit from understandings
which improve over time.

Yes I think that's it. Smith made an early and valuable insight, but it was, as always, only part of the picture.

We need always to beware zealots, touting simple solutions to complex problems.

 

[Heyo]

Why bother?
Would it serve any good purpose?
If it turned out to be higher than I expected, I'd become
even more sanctimonious, pompous, & annoying.
If it turned out to be less than I expected, I'd become
even more morose, withdrawn, & hostile.
And finally, if it's what I expected, I'd be furious at having
wasted all that time to discover that I'm not firing on all cylinders.

I can't refute your superior logic.

 

[Milton Platt]

This OP is posted in the "North American Politics" forum because RF doesn't have a "U.S. Politics" sub-forum. But what the heck, ... Third World North Americans may have something to say regarding the topic. So, feel free to give voice to your opinions, Canadians.

Surprisingly, to me, I still remember my first introduction to Adam Smith's metaphor of "the Invisible Hand" in a college economics course. Rather than bungle a description of the metaphor, I'll quote someone else's description. [Feel free to provide your own favorite version.]

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So, when I read this "headline": The Free Market Will Save Us From the Coronavirus!

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I wondered: Will it?

What do you think?

I'm not sure what the free market has to do with medical research or political willpower, which is what we need.

 

[Terry Sampson]

I'm not sure what the free market has to do with medical research or political willpower, which is what we need.

From the link in the OP:

 

[Terry Sampson]

I'm not sure what the free market has to do with medical research or political willpower, which is what we need.

From my link in my 2nd Post, #4 in this thread:

The Invisible Hand Wants You Dead

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes I think that's it. Smith made an early and valuable insight, but it was, as always, only part of the picture.

We need always to beware zealots, touting simple solutions to complex problems.

Let's look at how well the worker's paradise of Venezuela is doing....
'Mask, gown, gloves – none of that exists': Venezuela's coronavirus crisis

 

[Milton Platt]

From my link in my 2nd Post, #4 in this thread:

The Invisible Hand Wants You Dead

I did a quick browse of the article. The guy seems like he is from another planet or something.

 

[Terry Sampson]

I did a quick browse of the article. The guy seems like he is from another planet or something.

I kinda thought so too.