sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
No "reward" is warranted. Grace is a gift -- not a reward. We do nothing to effect the grace. It's simply conferred upon us.
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Why the Christians have the false assumption that they are going to Heaven
- Thread starter nevaya
- Start date
to the OP: you might be missing a lot of doctrinal information that could help you seriously decode this, but that happens to a lot of people discussing a religion they are not a part of.
or, if i'm reading you right, these misunderstandings typically result from intentionally attacking someone else's philosophical stance.
mostly what i'm trying to say is that if someone wants to believe, for whatever combination of reasons, that they are going to paradise after they die - it's not exactly any of my business. (until they try to teach it in public schools, or affect my legal system with it.)
or, if i'm reading you right, these misunderstandings typically result from intentionally attacking someone else's philosophical stance.
mostly what i'm trying to say is that if someone wants to believe, for whatever combination of reasons, that they are going to paradise after they die - it's not exactly any of my business. (until they try to teach it in public schools, or affect my legal system with it.)
Blackdog22
Well-Known Member
The bible requires much more than just believing according to Jesus.
One that a lot of Christians fail at is giving up everything they have to follow him... this includes material possessions. Jesus actually mentions this not once, but twice =O. Then goes onto say how hard it is for a rich man to get into heaven. If you live in the US then your considered rich in comparison to the rest of the world.
One that a lot of Christians fail at is giving up everything they have to follow him... this includes material possessions. Jesus actually mentions this not once, but twice =O. Then goes onto say how hard it is for a rich man to get into heaven. If you live in the US then your considered rich in comparison to the rest of the world.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Actually, Jesus talks about the accumulation of riches in relationship to entering the kingdom. Is that the same thing as "going to heaven?"
True indeed, alot of christians need to wake up, however that last part about difficult, the NT says its easy. Matthew 11:30
MountainGuardian
Member
Simply because that is what they are taught to believe. When they read the bible they see what they were taught... not what it actually reads.
waitasec
Veteran Member
a belief the offer has been bestowed no less.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
How do you know it hasn't?:flirt:
waitasec
Veteran Member
life experience has humbled me to the point where i cannot see a gift of grace
only an opportunity to appreciate the here and now
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Maybe that's grace...life experience has humbled me to the point where i cannot see a gift of grace
only an opportunity to appreciate the here and now
waitasec
Veteran Member
Civil Shephard
Active Member
life experience has humbled me to the point where i cannot see a gift of grace
only an opportunity to appreciate the here and now
waitasec
I share your concern... sojourner said exactly what I thought after I read your first thought. Words and teachings so often hide the spirit of grace... but to me the fascinating power of honest words from an honest heart is grace.
Civil Shephard
Active Member
The extreme difficulty inherent in the words of Christ account for the grace presented by his sacrifice on the cross. Here a teacher presented something even more impossible to us than Moses... so he cut us a break and told us to believe in him and love one another. Yeah... my faith in Christ is best shown and not spoken... but I do believe predestination and free will combined make no sense at all without the gift of grace. More than that I cannot say because I don't know... and there's not to much I assume beyond the grace I feel I recieve everyday from trying to follow Jesus and his teachings.
Haven't you ever heard John 3:16? "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever should believe in Him, shall not perish but have eternal life."
That tells me that all one must do is believe in Jesus. There are other verses implying that if you truly believe in Jesus, then this should be indicated in your lifestyle and actions, so while "works" aren't necessary for salvation, they are indicative of it.
I see no reason why Christians are unjustified in believing that they are saved based upon that above verse. If one verse can imply "nay" then surely another verse can imply "yea".
That tells me that all one must do is believe in Jesus. There are other verses implying that if you truly believe in Jesus, then this should be indicated in your lifestyle and actions, so while "works" aren't necessary for salvation, they are indicative of it.
I see no reason why Christians are unjustified in believing that they are saved based upon that above verse. If one verse can imply "nay" then surely another verse can imply "yea".
waitasec
Veteran Member
It's not to random if you attribute "free will" as the source of chaos to the human condition.
In the end, everyone gets what they want. Or at least what they thought they wanted, (in some cases)... (in a lot of cases)
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waitasec
Veteran Member
from before our very inception...life faces random indifference...
think of that one little tiny sperm cell that made it to the egg...
why the need for so many sperm cells?
it's like landing on the shores of iwo jima... dependent on timing and random chance...
A woman constantly produces cervical fluid (or mucus) throughout her menstral cycle. Most of the time this mucus is acidic and deadly to sperm. But as she approaches ovulation, the mucus changes and become conductive to sperm and actually assists keeping sperm alive (for up to 3-5 days) until the egg is released maximising her chance of conception.
Read more: Answers.com - Does a woman's body kill sperm once it has entered into the vagina
edit:
how do you explain free will in the face of natural disasters? it's not as though hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes and tsunamis are a result of free will...
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