Why should I believe in your religion and faith?

[YmirGF]

My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Were you able to say that without taking a breath? First off, "understanding", by default, can never be complete and, in theory, once you have accrued a bit more personal "richness" you just might come to realize this simple fact. Secondly, Christ is a symbol for that which already exists within all beings. Touch that feature of personal reality and you will have come further than many may expect. The real treasure of wisdom resides in unfettered experience, free from value judgment and that my friend is when "knowledge" begins to rear its pretty little head.

I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments...

So, in other words, when your argument falls on its face, due to intellectual bankruptcy, just stick to the story and don't try to learn anything new and exciting. Is faith in opposition to learning?

I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness—the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints.

"Beware the person who alludes to their own Saintliness, for they will lead one where one need not go. It is always better to run away from such people than to be like a docile sheep in hot pursuit."

To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory...

We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy, which so powerfully works in me.

I rather suspect that what works "so powerfully in" one is an overactive imagination dove-tailed with having far too much time on one's hands.

Be aware, you cannot "teach" to one who knows better already, as they perceive the webs you weave are little more than chains that bind, giving the illusions of freedom.

 

[doppelganger]

Don't twist my words my friend.

No need to. They were already twisted when I got to them.

All I did was quote a bible passage, therefore pointing to the wisdom of God revealed in the Holy Bible alone.

When you handle the master carpenter's tools,
chances are that you'll cut your hand. - Tao te Ching

 

[Fish-Hunter]

No need to. They were already twisted when I got to them.



When you handle the master carpenter's tools,
chances are that you'll cut your hand. - Tao te Ching

Do you have a similar view like LDS Christians too? You don't trust in the sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures, or the trustworthiness of our Bible translations?

For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. - Word of God from the book of Hebrews

 

[Popeyesays]

No need to. They were already twisted when I got to them.



When you handle the master carpenter's tools,
chances are that you'll cut your hand. - Tao te Ching

Tao te Ching was speaking symbolically, of course. Who in this particular instance, is the master craftsman?

Regards,
Scott

 

[doppelganger]

Do you have a similar view like LDS Christians too?

LOL. I don't think so.

You don't trust in the sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures, or the trustworthiness of our Bible translations?

Sure I do. They are but one aspect of "God's" word though. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

LOL. I don't think so.

Sure I do. They are but one aspect of "God's" word though. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

2 Peter 3:16:
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Isaiah 5:20:

Woe to those who call evil good
and good evil,
who put darkness for light
and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet
and sweet for bitter.

2 Timothy 4:3:
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

IN CONTRAST TO

1 Thessalonians 2:13:
And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Were you able to say that without taking a breath? First off, "understanding", by default, can never be complete and, in theory, once you have accrued a bit more personal "richness" you just might come to realize this simple fact. Secondly, Christ is a symbol for that which already exists within all beings. Touch that feature of personal reality and you will have come further than many may expect. The real treasure of wisdom resides in unfettered experience, free from value judgment and that my friend is when "knowledge" begins to rear its pretty little head.

So, in other words, when your argument falls on its face, due to intellectual bankruptcy, just stick to the story and don't try to learn anything new and exciting. Is faith in opposition to learning?

"Beware the person who alludes to their own Saintliness, for they will lead one where one need not go. It is always better to run away from such people than to be like a docile sheep in hot pursuit."

I rather suspect that what works "so powerfully in" one is an overactive imagination dove-tailed with having far too much time on one's hands.

Be aware, you cannot "teach" to one who knows better already, as they perceive the webs you weave are little more than chains that bind, giving the illusions of freedom.

Are you aware that you are responding to Holy Scripture and not my personal comments? Therefore, you are arguing and debating with the God revealed in the Bible.

 

[Wandered Off]

Therefore, you are arguing and debating with the God revealed in the Bible.

Or the humans who wrote it, in whom you apparently have as much faith as you do in God.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Tao te Ching was speaking symbolically, of course. Who in this particular instance, is the master craftsman?

Regards,
Scott

Not the Christ revealed in the Bible Alone, but another Christ created by Tao te Ching. . People create their own imaginary Christ all the time, which is a distortion of the living Christ revealed in the Bible alone.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Or the humans who wrote it, in whom you apparently have as much faith as you do in God.

I somewhat agree with your line of thought. The only ones who know God are those whom God has revealed Himself through His Word, and those whom God has made alive to Himself by granting them spiritual eyes to see Him. To all others, the Bible reveals that they are spirituality dead, and do not know God. The Bible verse applies to the elect of God only.

1 Thessalonians 2:13:
And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

Faith is a sign that you know the true and living God.

Hebrews 11:6:
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

To not believe in His Son Jesus Christ is to call God a liar.

1 John 5:10:
Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.

God will punish those who do not know Him through His Son with a vengeance. Unbelievers will loose the war, because God is much bigger than you.

2 Thessalonians 1

All this is evidence that God's judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

 

[Wandered Off]

To not believe in His Son Jesus Christ is to call God a liar.

Only if God told me directly. If God sent some third party, questioning the credibility of the self-proclaimed agent is clearly not the same as questioning God.

Suppose I get an e-mail from some guy claiming to be your friend saying that you told him to tell me you had a miraculous revelation and now want me to convert to Islam. If I get suspicious, am I calling you a liar? No.

God will punish those who do not know Him through His Son with a vengeance.

Why would God do that in the context of election? Shouldn't the one doing the electing be responsible and punished, if indeed it's a punishable offense?

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Only if God told me directly. If God sent some third party, questioning the credibility of the self-proclaimed agent is clearly not the same as questioning God.

Suppose I get an e-mail from some guy claiming to be your friend saying that you told him to tell me you had a miraculous revelation and now want me to convert to Islam. If I get suspicious, am I calling you a liar? No.
Why would God do that in the context of election? Shouldn't the one doing the electing be responsible and punished, if indeed it's a punishable offense?

These are good questions, but maybe you need to go directly to God for answers found in His Holy Word (Bible). I agree, don't trust a third party... go direct to God in prayer and Holy Scripture.

 

[Wandered Off]

These are good questions, but maybe you need to go directly to God for answers found in His Holy Word (Bible).

FH, because the Bible was written by humans, it IS a third party source.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

FH, because the Bible was written by humans, it IS a third party source.

Sorry, I sometimes forget we all believe differently. I think this verse is the Christian position.

1 Thessalonians 2:13:
And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.

It is very difficult for many Christians to make sense of why some believe and others do not believe apart from the doctrine of election. I honestly believe the Bible is clear on intentional concealment and revealment of Biblical revelation.

Luke 10:21:
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.

 

[YmirGF]

Are you aware that you are responding to Holy Scripture and not my personal comments? Therefore, you are arguing and debating with the God revealed in the Bible.

Any interesting twist, to say the least. You must understand that I utterly reject the concept of revelation, first and foremost. Secondly, I do not put much stock into what is written in a book of fairy stories designed for small children. Third, I highly doubt that if a being like "god" actually exists that it would ever exist as portrayed in the Bible. The Biblical "god" would seem to be a bit too human and given to emotional displays for my satisfaction.

In my view, your assertion amounts to little more than hot air.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Well, it is heart-warming to hear that you leave the "spiritual heavy-lifting" to others.

1. How do you know, for a fact, that Dopp's "wisdom" is "from this world"? Who are you to say?
2. If you are content pointing to the so-called "wisdom" of "god", written in book, aren't you simply pinning your hopes on a "wing and a prayer".

(Like, c'mon... Are you serious? Noah? :sarcastic Adam and (St)Eve? :cover: Satan? :areyoucra The fall from grace? )
Oy vey, eh. :slap:

Not funny! he is serious!

 

[Missionary]

I have to say you are very brave to post such an admition on a forum like this. I know the Lord will bless you in your quest for further light and knowledge. The Lord has a plan for us, he will not leave us in the dark. He has called Prophets and Apostles to the earth again and the Heavens are open again. I am only a young boy of 19 and I don't know much, but I do know we can receive revelation from God, if we ask in faith. He can enlighten our spirit and mind, answering questions like "which church should I join"? or "are these things true"? These times can be confusing, but the Lord knows his children. He is aware of you and your search for truth, and he loves you very much. You might have guessed but i am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and I have asked questions like you are asking now, and they've been answered. The lord Does not expect us to follow the voices of men blindly, "ask and ye shall receive" brother.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Any interesting twist, to say the least. You must understand that I utterly reject the concept of revelation, first and foremost. Secondly, I do not put much stock into what is written in a book of fairy stories designed for small children. Third, I highly doubt that if a being like "god" actually exists that it would ever exist as portrayed in the Bible. The Biblical "god" would seem to be a bit too human and given to emotional displays for my satisfaction.

In my view, your assertion amounts to little more than hot air.

1 Corinthians: Christ the Wisdom and Power of God

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God....The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

I have to say you are very brave to post such an admition on a forum like this. I know the Lord will bless you in your quest for further light and knowledge. The Lord has a plan for us, he will not leave us in the dark. He has called Prophets and Apostles to the earth again and the Heavens are open again. I am only a young boy of 19 and I don't know much, but I do know we can receive revelation from God, if we ask in faith. He can enlighten our spirit and mind, answering questions like "which church should I join"? or "are these things true"? These times can be confusing, but the Lord knows his children. He is aware of you and your search for truth, and he loves you very much. You might have guessed but i am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and I have asked questions like you are asking now, and they've been answered. The lord Does not expect us to follow the voices of men blindly, "ask and ye shall receive" brother.

Please join us on the LDS and the Bible thread created by your Mormon brother!

 

[J_R]

Could you please share what you believe? Thank you!

Jesus Loves You.