Why should I believe in your religion and faith?

[Fish-Hunter]

It is very nice you are open to a correction draka has this thread that religion is not excuse for Ignorance. I believe that. Read on please:





Point #1 Salvation is available only through the Church of God alone

This is what we believe:
1 Corinthians 5:12-13
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

we judge those from the inside because we have to look after the flock. BUT GOD JUDGES THOSE FROM THE OUTSIDE. No one can sanely interpret that as beleiving salvation is only available in anyone's church!

POINT # 2 that only the leader of their church (Eliseo Soriano) can interpret and understand the Bible

Do i seem like i lack understanding of the bible? do i seem to be incapable of interpreting the verses on my own? Do i?read the explainations below, you will know Eliseo Soraino Taught as very well, that no one can fool us as far as the bible is concerned

POINT # 3 that Jesus Christ, while "a" god is a lesser god than the Father, and that God is not Omniscient or Omnipresent


This is what the bible states:

John 14:28
"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.


No one from our church ever said Jesus was a lesser god than the father. Jesus said it himself. Jesus is greater than all principalities another verse stated, but the Father is greater than all.

Now about God being Omniscient. it is defined as "having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things."

Do you believe in free will Izdaari? do you know what the purpose of the gospel is? let's work with logic before i go biblical ok?

People have free will, therefore has the ability to choose between good and evil. if there is one thing that God does not know of, its what a person will choose.

To corroborate this point, look at Jesus' instructions to Paul:

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

If God already knows what people will choose then the spreading of the gospel and its purpose is one big stage play! but he doesn't. The Just God ofthe bible wants people to Follow him "volutarily" and he uses the gospel to guide them with their CHOICE/


Now about God being omnipresent tht is defined as "present everywhere at the same time: the omnipresent God'

Who will be firm with me that God is in prostitution dens? or in casinos? in the las vegas strip? I will tell you who is in those places, see this:

James 3:14-16

But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.

Where there is envy, slefisness, envy, and strife there is the devil. So where is God then?


I should give you the burden of biblical proof, but look at this:

1. Matthew 5:16
   Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
2. Matthew 5:45
   That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
3. Matthew 5:48
   Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
4. Matthew 6:1
   Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
5. Matthew 6:9
   After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Basic reading comprehension will tell us that The Father is in heaven. do you want to know which is every where?

Proverbs 15:3
The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.



The eyes of the lord is in every place, but not he himself. unless you can provide a verse that says so. By the way i found this, this is the religion that believes that their is no salvation outside their church, so are they a Cult?

What happens if I call Eliseo Soriano a false prophet? Oops, I'm sorry the wrong thread. But seriously, what happens if I disagree with Eliseo Soriano on essential Christian doctrines, am I going to Hell? Was Eliseo Soriano sent by God to restore the apsotate historical Christian church too? Does he have a similar mission like Joseph Smith?

Eliseo Soriano - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[uss_bigd]

But seriously, what happens if I disagree with Eliseo Soriano on essential Christian doctrines, am I going to Hell?

This is what we believe in: "God Judges those from the outside.":shout

Which part of it did you not understand? Which part fish-hunter do you not understand?????

Was Eliseo Soriano sent by God to restore the apsotate historical Christian church too? Does he have a similar mission like Joseph Smith?

Was there a need for a restoration in the first place?

WE ASSOCIATED OURSELVES WITH THE CHURCH OF THE BIBLE, WE NEVER CLAIMED WE BUILT OUR OWN.

WHICH PART OF THE STATEMENT ABOVE DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND????:slap:

NO SIMILAR MISSION WITH JOSEPH SMITH!

 

[Fish-Hunter]

This is what we believe in: "God Judges those from the outside.":shout

Which part of it did you not understand? Which part fish-hunter do you not understand?????




Was there a need for a restoration in the first place?

WE ASSOCIATED OURSELVES WITH THE CHURCH OF THE BIBLE, WE NEVER CLAIMED WE BUILT OUR OWN.

WHICH PART OF THE STATEMENT ABOVE DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND????:slap:

NO SIMILAR MISSION WITH JOSEPH SMITH!

You say that if I do not agree with the essential doctrines taught by Eliseo Soriano, then I am on the outside. You could only interpert that as proclaiming that those who do not agree with Mr Soriano, then you are outside of the church of Jesus Christ. Therefore, are you saying all professing Christians who adhere to the historical Christian beliefs defined through the historical confessions and creeds are apostate? Mr Soriano and Mr Smith have much in common.

 

[uss_bigd]

You say that if I do not agree with the essential doctrines taught by Eliseo Soriano, then I am on the outside. You could only interpert that as proclaiming that those who do not agree with Mr Soriano, then you are outside of the church of Jesus Christ. Therefore, are you saying all professing Christians who adhere to the historical Christian beliefs defined through the historical confessions and creeds are apostate? Mr Soriano and Mr Smith have much in common.

Sigh! Apostate means "a person who forsakes his religion, cause, party, etc." the definition so implies conscious choice" let us review the instruction of Christ to Paul in:

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

To open their eyes, does that include peole "consciously foresaking the chruch? no. remember, Paul was sent to the gentiles, those who are not followers of Christ. my preacher has nothing in common with Joseph smith.

Stop making your assumptions, " do i offend you because i speak of the truth written in the bible?"

Jospeh Smith believed in restoration, we do not beleive that the chruch need be restored. it is the body of Christ, why will it be destroyed? again we beleive we associated ourselves with the chruch in the bible. we did not establish a new church.


John 15:18
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.


GO AHEAD FISH-HUNTER HATE US SOME MORE!!!:bow:

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Sigh! Apostate means "a person who forsakes his religion, cause, party, etc." the definition so implies conscious choice" let us review the instruction of Christ to Paul in:

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

To open their eyes, does that include peole "consciously foresaking the chruch? no. remember, Paul was sent to the gentiles, those who are not followers of Christ. my preacher has nothing in common with Joseph smith.

Stop making your assumptions, " do i offend you because i speak of the truth written in the bible?"

Jospeh Smith believed in restoration, we do no beleive that the chruch need be resotored. it is the body of Christ, why will it be destroyed? again we beleive we associated ourselves with the chruch in the bible. we did not extablish a new church.


John 15:18
If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.


GO AHEAD FISH-HUNTER HATE US SOME MORE!!!:bow:

I guess the real question for you is who do you think makeup the true church of Jesus Christ. I don't hate you my friend. I am trying to speak the truth in love. Did you know I have a similar racial background?

 

[uss_bigd]

I guess the real question for you is who do you think makeup the true church of Jesus Christ. I don't hate you my friend. I am trying to speak the truth in love. Did you know I have a similar racial background?

Biblically speaking:

1 Corinthians 1:1-2
Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

The members of the Chruch in the bible are those who are called. The question is how?

2 Thessalonians 2:14
Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The peole who constitute the Chruch in the bible are called By the gospel:angel2:

The next question how do we know who teaches the correct one?

1 Corinthians 4:6
And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

and see my signature

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Biblically speaking:

1 Corinthians 1:1-2
Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:

The members of the Chruch in the bible are those who are called. The question is how?

2 Thessalonians 2:14
Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The peole who constitute the Chruch in the bible are called By the gospel:angel2:

The next question how do we know who teaches the correct one?

1 Corinthians 4:6
And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

and see my signature

I like the scirptures that you posted alongside with your comments. I think the gospel is a universal call to all humanity, but the ones who respond with true saving faith are the chosen. I believe saving faith is a gift from God (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[Valjean]

Unless you are a mystic, physicist or user of hallucinogens, you should decidedly not believe in my religion/faith.

I am very suspicious of those who agree with me.

 

[uss_bigd]

I like the scirptures that you posted alongside with your comments. I think the gospel is a universal call to all humanity, but the ones who respond with true saving faith are the chosen. I believe saving faith is a gift from God (Eph 2:8-9).

The next questions are:

1. Are Christian called to be in a church or Religion?
2. How is a calling completed?
3. Can you lose your state of being called?

 

[Fish-Hunter]

The next questions are:

1. Are Christian called to be in a church or Religion?
2. How is a calling completed?
3. Can you lose your state of being called?

1. I need your definition of a church or a religion please.

2. Calling is lifetime: Pressing on Toward the Goal

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 3

3. What do you mean by losing your calling? Our union with Christ is because of Christ alone; therefore nothing can seperate us from the love on God in Christ (rom 8).

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Because my religion rules

 

[Muffled]

According to Scripture, who do you think killed Jesus? The answer is found in the Old Testament?

I didn't find the old testament reference. Isaiah 53 states the the Messiah is "Cut off" but that is a passive statement and from God's point of view only an interruption. I suupose you could look at the Psalm that Jesus quoted the first verse from the cross and recognize those who gambled for His garments.

According to the scriptures the Romans attempted to execute Jesus on the cross but were unsuccessful because Jesus left the body before death. The body died because Jesus left it in a position of distress from which it died. The Roman soldiers were planning on killing him by breaking his legs but were not able to because they found Him already dead.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

God the Father killed Jesus...Why did God the Father send His Son into this sinned cursed world to die? Why was it the will of God that Jesus would suffer and die?

2 Corinthians 5:21:
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Isaiah 53
Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied ;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

[doppelganger]

God the Father killed Jesus...Why did God the Father send His Son into this sinned cursed world to die? Why was it the will of God that Jesus would suffer and die?

IITS, of course.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

IITS, of course.

Christ the Wisdom and Power of God

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."


Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.

Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power.

Wisdom From the Spirit

We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. However, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him"—but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.

The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
"For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.

1 Cor 1-2

 

[doppelganger]

Christ the Wisdom and Power of God

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

If you think you're the one who has the words that express the wisdom of God, it's a safe bet you aren't. Happy hunting!

 

[YmirGF]

If you think you're the one who has the words that express the wisdom of God, it's a safe bet you aren't. Happy hunting!

God? Who is the "god" fellow? It reminds me of something... hmmmm. Nope, I suppose I was just projecting.

I am continually fascinated how folks make a whole lot of summin' outta nuttin'.

 

[doppelganger]

God? Who is the "god" fellow? It reminds me of something... hmmmm. Nope, I suppose I was just projecting.

I am continually fascinated how folks make a whole lot of summin' outta nuttin'.

Somebody has to buy the popcorn and watch the show, Paul. " The music suffers baby . . . the music business thrives."

 

[Fish-Hunter]

If you think you're the one who has the words that express the wisdom of God, it's a safe bet you aren't. Happy hunting!

Don't twist my words my friend. All I did was quote a bible passage, therefore pointing to the wisdom of God revealed in the Holy Bible alone. Enjoy your own spiritual wisdom which is from this world. I don't point to myself for wisdom, but point to the God of wisdom found in the Bible Alone.

My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments...I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness—the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints.To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory...We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy, which so powerfully works in me.

Colossians (Holy Bible)

Christ the Wisdom and Power of God

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

1 Cor 1 (Holy Bible)

 

[YmirGF]

Don't twist my words my friend. All I did was quote a bible passage, therefore pointing to the wisdom of God revealed in the Holy Bible alone. Enjoy your own spiritual wisdom which is from this world. I don't point to myself for wisdom, but point to the God of wisdom found in the Bible Alone.

Well, it is heart-warming to hear that you leave the "spiritual heavy-lifting" to others.

1. How do you know, for a fact, that Dopp's "wisdom" is "from this world"? Who are you to say?
2. If you are content pointing to the so-called "wisdom" of "god", written in book, aren't you simply pinning your hopes on a "wing and a prayer".

(Like, c'mon... Are you serious? Noah? :sarcastic Adam and (St)Eve? :cover: Satan? :areyoucra The fall from grace? )
Oy vey, eh. :slap: