Why should I believe in your religion and faith?

[uss_bigd]

This is such a wild and crazy website!!!!!! :drool:

can't keep up?

 

[Izdaari]

My view of the church is below. Click on the blue numbers for scripture links. Catholic means universal and not Roman Catholic.

Chapter XXV

Of the Church

I. The catholic or universal Church, which is invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one, under Christ the Head thereof; and is the spouse, the body, the fulness of Him that fills all in all.[1]

II. The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation, as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion;[2] and of their children:[3] and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ,[4] the house and family of God,[5] out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation.[6]

III. Unto this catholic visible Church Christ has given the ministry, oracles, and ordinances of God, for the gathering and perfecting of the saints, in this life, to the end of the world: and does, by His own presence and Spirit, according to His promise, make them effectual thereunto.[7]

IV. This catholic Church has been sometimes more, sometimes less visible.[8] And particular Churches, which are members thereof, are more or less pure, according as the doctrine of the Gospel is taught and embraced, ordinances administered, and public worship performed more or less purely in them.[9]

V. The purest Churches under heaven are subject both to mixture and error;[10] and some have so degenerated, as to become no Churches of Christ, but synagogues of Satan.[11] Nevertheless, there shall be always a Church on earth to worship God according to His will.[12]

VI. There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ.[13] Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalts himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God.[14]

Westminster Confession of Faith

Excellent description of the church!

I guess I'm more Reformed (not to say Calvinist) than I thought.

And I would concur that the Church of God International seems to have all the earmarks of a cult.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Excellent description of the church!

I guess I'm more Reformed (not to say Calvinist) than I thought.

And I would concur that the Church of God International seems to have all the earmarks of a cult.

By the grace of God, He continues to grow us up.

 

[uss_bigd]

Excellent description of the church!

I guess I'm more Reformed (not to say Calvinist) than I thought.

And I would concur that the Church of God International seems to have all the earmarks of a cult.

Galatians 1:10
Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Mat 5:11-12
"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

:shoutWhat can i say, Thanks a lot Izdaari.

 

[Izdaari]

Those are favorite scriptures of mine too. I see that being more concerned with pleasing God than man is one thing we have in common. :angel2:

And you're very welcome. :bow:

 

[uss_bigd]

Those are favorite scriptures of mine too. I see that being more concerned with pleasing God than man is one thing we have in common. :angel2:

And you're very welcome. :bow:

Nice shift of gears there my lady!

What are considered earmarks of a cult if i may ask?

 

[Izdaari]

Nice shift of gears there my lady!

What are considered earmarks of a cult if i may ask?

While calling itself a Christian denomination, it is considered to be a cult [1] by nearly all mainstream Christian denominations due to their belief that salvation is available only through their church alone, that only the leader of their church (Eliseo Soriano) can interpret and understand the Bible, that Jesus Christ, while "a" god is a lesser god than the Father, and that God is not Omniscient or Omnipresent.

Members Church of God InternationalThat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That all sounds both heretical and cult-like to me. Of course, Wikipedia is far from infallible, so if that article doesn't accurately describe your beliefs, I'd be very glad for the correction.

I have no desire to offend anyone, but where the Kingdom of God is concerned, I must tell the truth as best I understand it. I'm very serious when I say I'm glad we have that in common.

:foryou:

 

[turk179]

Of course, Wikipedia is far from infallible

Absolutely. It usually only takes one college course to be educated on the infallability of Wikipedia.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Absolutely. It usually only takes one college course to be educated on the infallability of Wikipedia.

Spiritual understanding or spiritual blindness is not related to a person's intelligence, educational level, age, culture, or racial background. Check out 1 Cor chapter 1.

Christ the Wisdom and Power of God

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

 

[Izdaari]

Absolutely. It usually only takes one college course to be educated on the infallability of Wikipedia.

And your point is?

 

[Wandered Off]

Spiritual understanding or spiritual blindness is not related to a person's intelligence, educational level, age, culture, or racial background. Check out 1 Cor chapter 1.

Paul seems to be a victim of this very confusion. In the chapter you mention, he says God will "confound the wise" then later in the letter, he says God isn't the author of confusion...

 

[Fish-Hunter]

Paul seems to be a victim of this very confusion. In the chapter you mention, he says God will "confound the wise" then later in the letter, he says God isn't the author of confusion...

That's a good point. However, I believe these apparent contradictions have to be understood within the doctrine of election. God actually hides and conceals revelation to some (non-elect), and reveals revelation to His chosen ones. I know this doctrine of election is hated by many (rom 9). Do you think the Christian God will save all He intends to save if He is the all powerful God? The free will argument cannot be supported in all of scripture because God is sovereign, and mankind cannot be sovereign at the same time.

 

[Wandered Off]

I know this doctrine of election is hated by many (rom 9).

That's only because it's evil. Besides, the so-called Great Commission - allegedly a command - would be a complete waste of time in the context of election. For that matter, so would any other activity.

 

[turk179]

Spiritual understanding or spiritual blindness is not related to a person's intelligence, educational level, age, culture, or racial background. Check out 1 Cor chapter 1.

Christ the Wisdom and Power of God

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written:

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength. Brothers, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

Nice post. Now What the heck does this have to do with my post and what are you trying to say about Wikipedia?

 

[turk179]

And your point is?

I was agreeing with you. Was I wrong to do so

 

[Izdaari]

I was agreeing with you. Was I wrong to do so

Not at all. I thought perhaps there was some sort of sarcastic implication that wasn't clear to me. Since apparently there wasn't, please disregard.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

That's only because it's evil. Besides, the so-called Great Commission - allegedly a command - would be a complete waste of time in the context of election. For that matter, so would any other activity.

To repent and believe in the gospel of Christ crucified on behalf of sinners to be reconciled to God is a command to all (elect and non-elect alike). If God determined an end to save certain sinners, then He provided the means through the person and work of Christ and preaching of the message of Christ and Him crucified (Rom 10). The real question has to do with the doctrine election as being taught in scripture (Rom 9, Eph 1 and 2, Rom 8, etc). Is the doctrine of election biblical? If so, God would enable some spirituality blind people to spirituality see. Concealment and revealment of spiritual truth is clearly taught in the scriptures. Start with why Jesus spoke in parables (Matt).

 

[Wandered Off]

To repent and believe in the gospel of Christ crucified on behalf of sinners to be reconciled to God is a command to all (elect and non-elect alike).

What would be the point of such a command? How is it not a waste of time if election predates the humans affected?

The real question has to do with the doctrine election as being taught in scripture (Rom 9, Eph 1 and 2, Rom 8, etc).

The question about whether such a doctrine is evil is no less real.

 

[Fish-Hunter]

What would be the point of such a command? How is it not a waste of time if election predates the humans affected?

The question about whether such a doctrine is evil is no less real.

God commands are what we continue to break which is called sin. God commands us to not murder, yet we murder. Do you disagree with any of the 10 commandments?

 

[uss_bigd]

While calling itself a Christian denomination, it is considered to be a cult [1] by nearly all mainstream Christian denominations due to their belief that salvation is available only through their church alone, that only the leader of their church (Eliseo Soriano) can interpret and understand the Bible, that Jesus Christ, while "a" god is a lesser god than the Father, and that God is not Omniscient or Omnipresent.

Members Church of God InternationalThat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That all sounds both heretical and cult-like to me. Of course, Wikipedia is far from infallible, so if that article doesn't accurately describe your beliefs, I'd be very glad for the correction.

I have no desire to offend anyone, but where the Kingdom of God is concerned, I must tell the truth as best I understand it. I'm very serious when I say I'm glad we have that in common.

:foryou:

It is very nice you are open to a correction draka has this thread that religion is not excuse for Ignorance. I believe that. Read on please:

While calling itself a Christian denomination, it is considered to be a cult [1] by nearly all mainstream Christian denominations due to their belief that salvation is available only through their church alone, that only the leader of their church (Eliseo Soriano) can interpret and understand the Bible, that Jesus Christ, while "a" god is a lesser god than the Father, and that God is not Omniscient or Omnipresent.

Point #1 Salvation is available only through the Church of God alone

This is what we believe:
1 Corinthians 5:12-13
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

we judge those from the inside because we have to look after the flock. BUT GOD JUDGES THOSE FROM THE OUTSIDE. No one can sanely interpret that as beleiving salvation is only available in anyone's church!

POINT # 2 that only the leader of their church (Eliseo Soriano) can interpret and understand the Bible

Do i seem like i lack understanding of the bible? do i seem to be incapable of interpreting the verses on my own? Do i?read the explainations below, you will know Eliseo Soraino Taught as very well, that no one can fool us as far as the bible is concerned

POINT # 3 that Jesus Christ, while "a" god is a lesser god than the Father, and that God is not Omniscient or Omnipresent


This is what the bible states:

John 14:28
"You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all ; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.


No one from our church ever said Jesus was a lesser god than the father. Jesus said it himself. Jesus is greater than all principalities another verse stated, but the Father is greater than all.

Now about God being Omniscient. it is defined as "having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things."

Do you believe in free will Izdaari? do you know what the purpose of the gospel is? let's work with logic before i go biblical ok?

People have free will, therefore has the ability to choose between good and evil. if there is one thing that God does not know of, its what a person will choose.

To corroborate this point, look at Jesus' instructions to Paul:

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

If God already knows what people will choose then the spreading of the gospel and its purpose is one big stage play! but he doesn't. The Just God ofthe bible wants people to Follow him "volutarily" and he uses the gospel to guide them with their CHOICE/


Now about God being omnipresent tht is defined as "present everywhere at the same time: the omnipresent God'

Who will be firm with me that God is in prostitution dens? or in casinos? in the las vegas strip? I will tell you who is in those places, see this:

James 3:14-16

But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. Such "wisdom" does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, of the devil. For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.

Where there is envy, slefisness, envy, and strife there is the devil. So where is God then?


I should give you the burden of biblical proof, but look at this:

1. Matthew 5:16
   Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
2. Matthew 5:45
   That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
3. Matthew 5:48
   Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
4. Matthew 6:1
   Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
5. Matthew 6:9
   After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Basic reading comprehension will tell us that The Father is in heaven. do you want to know which is every where?

Proverbs 15:3
The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good.



The eyes of the lord is in every place, but not he himself. unless you can provide a verse that says so. By the way i found this, this is the religion that believes that their is no salvation outside their church, so are they a Cult?