Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
God is the source of all things...the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil...... Isaiah 45:7 ... John 1:3
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Why science unable to control Death ?
- Thread starter chinu
- Start date
We are living longer and old bodies in nursing homes are making their owners lots of money. Death just makes room for more old bodies to keep the cash flowing.
Sadly this has been my own experience. Living longer is not living better. We are actually not programmed for death. We have a collective expectation to go on living.....to remain youthful and avoid death.
Ask any old person if they feel old on the inside? Age is a state of body, not a state of mind. (unless there is dementia of course) Our minds do not readily accept death....we fight to live....we mourn our dead.
No one in good health with a relatively good quality of life "wants" to die....it doesn't feel natural despite the fact that we know nothing else.
We are living longer and old bodies in nursing homes are making their owners lots of money. Death just makes room for more old bodies to keep the cash flowing.
We are actually not programmed for death. We have a collective expectation to go on living.....to remain youthful and avoid death.
Ask any old person if they feel old on the inside? Age is a state of body, not a state of mind. (unless there is dementia of course) Our minds do not readily accept death....we fight to live....we mourn our dead.
No one in good health with a relatively good quality of life "wants" to die....it doesn't feel natural despite the fact that we know nothing else.
The righteous man Job certainly had the expectation to go on living....- Job 33:25
Job looked forward to the future time that he ( and by way of extension-> us ) would be released from the again process.
Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth will bring an end on earth to ' enemy death ' 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8
What has been translated as evil in KJV English in the Hebrew has more the sense of calamity.
In Scripture such calamity is Not always synonymous with wrongdoing.
Psalms 92:7 - the willfully wicked being ' destroyed forever' is Not wrongdoing, but an execution for the sake of justice for righteous ones.
By Eve partaking of the Tree of Knowledge she wanted to experience evil or bad part for herself. ' Death ' was the evil or bad part.
God already told the good part: Keep the Law and you will live forever in perfect health right here on a beautiful paradisical earth.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
I am not in agreement with the JW belief of living forever in perfect health right here on an beautiful earth...but I respect your right to believe it...we can agree to disagree...
Is there some reason that you disagree with the concept of living forever in paradise on earth?.....after all that was God's first purpose for man.
Thanda
Well-Known Member
Don't really get what you are saying here. "for natural selection to work" explains why we death exists in the first place but it does not actually explain why we haven't been able to solve it. The logical link you try to make therefore between what natural selection needs and what science can't do, doesn't seem to make sense.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Yes....because it ain't possible....ever...
What makes you think so? The process of cell renewal in the human body means that every seven years there is not a single cell in your body that was there seven years ago.
Technically this process of renewal should go on indefinitely...science cannot tell you why it fails. When the "tree of life" was in the garden of Eden, there was no restriction on eating its fruitage until after the fall. God then barred the way to the only means of making humans live forever. (Gen 3:22-24) That means that living forever in the flesh was a very real possibility.
Jesus, that's depressing.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Why do you consider this to be accurate?
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Why do you think that your scripture is more accurate than his?
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
paarsurrey said: ↑
Why science unable to control Death ?
Because life and death are creations of G-d:
[67:1]In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[67:2]Blessed is He in Whose hand is the kingdom, and He has power over all things;
[67:3]Who has created death and life that He might try you — which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Most Forgiving.
[67:4]Who has created seven heavens in harmony. No incongruity canst thou see in the creation of the GraciousGod. Then look again: Seest thou any flaw?
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=67&verse=0
Regards
I don't see anything inaccurate in it.
Regards
Why science unable to control Death ?
Because life and death are creations of G-d:
[67:1]In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[67:2]Blessed is He in Whose hand is the kingdom, and He has power over all things;
[67:3]Who has created death and life that He might try you — which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Most Forgiving.
[67:4]Who has created seven heavens in harmony. No incongruity canst thou see in the creation of the GraciousGod. Then look again: Seest thou any flaw?
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=67&verse=0
Regards
I don't see anything inaccurate in it.
Regards
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Humans can not last forever....human bodies are made out of clay...the elements...and the cellular genetic makeup is subject to cosmic ray damage which is then replicated going forth....so there will always be a used by date for the clay body... Besides which....the real purpose of the divine incarnation in Adam was to create self aware spiritual entities that mature before leaving their chrysalis clay body...as Jesus shown was possible... Humans are an intermediate stage of evolutionary development between animal and angelic... There was none among men, greater than John, but the least in the divine kingdom is greater than he....
The scripture that I gave you in Genesis reveals something about God's first intentions towards humankind. Here is that scripture in context....after the taking of the forbidden fruit, God said to Adam: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return."
20 After this Adam named his wife Eve, because she was to become the mother of everyone living. 21 And Jehovah God made long garments from skins for Adam and for his wife, to clothe them. 22 Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever,—” 23 With that Jehovah God expelled him from the garden of Eʹden to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24 So he drove the man out, and he posted at the east of the garden of Eʹden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life."
The "tree of life" obviously had properties that would allow humans to go on living indefinitely. Everlasting life was then the first kind offered to man. Continued obedience meant continued life. There was no "use by date" for humans. Death would only come with disobedience to one command. There was no other cause of death.Preventing fallen humankind from accessing the tree of life meant that no sinful human was going to be permitted to live forever.
This is an idea that does not come from scripture either. Adam and his wife had a mandate from their Creator to "fill the earth" with their kind and to "subdue" the land outside the garden. Unlike the animals, man was made in God's image and likeness, so death was not something inevitable for them, like it was for animals. We have a collective desire to go on living and God provided all that was necessary for that to take place...including access to "the tree of life".
Being mortal doesn't mean that you have to die...it only means that you can if you fail to obey God. No disobedience meant no death.
And where, may I ask, can I find this notion in the Bible? Angels were direct creations placed in heaven before the earth was even made. God formed material creatures and made a permanent home for them on this Earth. There is no "intermediate stage of evolutionary development between animal and angelic" mentioned anywhere in the Bible. Did you make that up?
What do you think Jesus means by this statement? I am sure you have it a bit skewed.....
To my knowledge, anyone who died before Jesus opened up the way for his spirit anointed disciples to go to heaven, has no place in the kingdom as a king or priest (Rev 20:6)
John the Baptist died before Jesus and there was no attempt on Jesus' part to resurrect him......unlike his friend Lazarus. Because Lazarus died before Jesus, he too would have been part of the general earthly resurrection of the dead, (John 5:28, 29) but because Jesus raised him back to life, he and his sisters were all among the spirit anointed ones chosen for heavenly rulership. (Heb 3:1) Without this "heavenly calling" no one will go to heaven, but will enjoy being a subject of the kingdom's rule here on earth, restoring God's original purpose of having perfect beings, reflecting his qualities, being caretakers of this spectacular planet restored to paradise conditions.
Rev 21:1-5:
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” 5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”
This is what we have to look forward to.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
The on high is not talking about living forever as a clay being...but about spirit.. The punishment was to expel the young soul from returning to Paradise... Remember in Genesis 2:7...the divine spirit incarnates in the clay body.. Now when Adam died...that spirit did not return to its original perfect state, but eventually reincarnated and has done so until now... If you reject this interpretation, then the only other interpretation is that there is a completely new spirit of God that incarnates in every new baby since the days of Adam....and if this was so there would not have been any evolutionary progress that now puts us in the space age... But Jesus reopens the portal that leads the mature spirit to leave the clay body and return to paradise...the kingdom of heaven.. Revelation 22:1-5The scripture that I gave you in Genesis reveals something about God's first intentions towards humankind. Here is that scripture in context....after the taking of the forbidden fruit, God said to Adam: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return."
20 After this Adam named his wife Eve, because she was to become the mother of everyone living. 21 And Jehovah God made long garments from skins for Adam and for his wife, to clothe them. 22 Jehovah God then said: “Here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad. Now in order that he may not put his hand out and take fruit also from the tree of life and eat and live forever,—” 23 With that Jehovah God expelled him from the garden of Eʹden to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 24 So he drove the man out, and he posted at the east of the garden of Eʹden the cherubs and the flaming blade of a sword that was turning continuously to guard the way to the tree of life."
The "tree of life" obviously had properties that would allow humans to go on living indefinitely. Everlasting life was then the first kind offered to man. Continued obedience meant continued life. There was no "use by date" for humans. Death would only come with disobedience to one command. There was no other cause of death.Preventing fallen humankind from accessing the tree of life meant that no sinful human was going to be permitted to live forever.
This is an idea that does not come from scripture either. Adam and his wife had a mandate from their Creator to "fill the earth" with their kind and to "subdue" the land outside the garden. Unlike the animals, man was made in God's image and likeness, so death was not something inevitable for them, like it was for animals. We have a collective desire to go on living and God provided all that was necessary for that to take place...including access to "the tree of life".
Being mortal doesn't mean that you have to die...it only means that you can if you fail to obey God. No disobedience meant no death.
And where, may I ask, can I find this notion in the Bible? Angels were direct creations placed in heaven before the earth was even made. God formed material creatures and made a permanent home for them on this Earth. There is no "intermediate stage of evolutionary development between animal and angelic" mentioned anywhere in the Bible. Did you make that up?
What do you think Jesus means by this statement? I am sure you have it a bit skewed.....
To my knowledge, anyone who died before Jesus opened up the way for his spirit anointed disciples to go to heaven, has no place in the kingdom as a king or priest (Rev 20:6)
John the Baptist died before Jesus and there was no attempt on Jesus' part to resurrect him......unlike his friend Lazarus. Because Lazarus died before Jesus, he too would have been part of the general earthly resurrection of the dead, (John 5:28, 29) but because Jesus raised him back to life, he and his sisters were all among the spirit anointed ones chosen for heavenly rulership. (Heb 3:1) Without this "heavenly calling" no one will go to heaven, but will enjoy being a subject of the kingdom's rule here on earth, restoring God's original purpose of having perfect beings, reflecting his qualities, being caretakers of this spectacular planet restored to paradise conditions.
Rev 21:1-5:
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” 5 And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.” Also he says: “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”
This is what we have to look forward to.
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
Why can't science control death? Because science can"t control anything - science only explains the actions of things that happen in nature. And sometimes those explanations are not correct because science refuses to consider the existence of God.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
excuse me....I didn't read the whole thread....
did anyone mention?
this life in chemistry is a design to generate unique spirit.
the chemistry was never intended to last forever.
just long enough for a fresh mindset to take hold
then, when the chemistry fails....and it will....
we stand from the dust
life goes on
did anyone mention?
this life in chemistry is a design to generate unique spirit.
the chemistry was never intended to last forever.
just long enough for a fresh mindset to take hold
then, when the chemistry fails....and it will....
we stand from the dust
life goes on
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Not to generate the spirit for the spirit comes from the on high...Genesis 2:7 ....but to generate in combination with the incarnate spirit....a sense of unique soul that identifies with the body in time and space.....which then results in an apparent separation with the parent spirit which is divine...