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Why science unable to control Death ?

Aquitaine

Well-Known Member
Well, one way or another our population will reduce. Whether it's because of war over resources, global warming, pollution or we simply nuke ourselves makes little difference.

And I wasn't saying that life was better before, I'm just saying life now isn't working and people's naivety and wilful ignorance on the subject isn't helping any.
Some people are probably naive regarding environmental side-effects pricesly because technology has improved their lives. Most people seem to just want to get on with their lives or feel powerless to "make a difference" (including yourself) and to be honest I can't really blame them.

At the end of the day, I honestly don't know what the answer is. Reducing the human population would probably be the most effective option, but I believe people who advocate such measures should be willing to go themselves, which most probably aren't. :shrug:
 

Thana

Lady
Some people are probably naive regarding environmental side-effects pricesly because technology has improved their lives. Most people seem to just want to get on with their lives or feel powerless to "make a difference" (including yourself) and to be honest I can't really blame them.

At the end of the day, I honestly don't know what the answer is. Reducing the human population would probably be the most effective option, but I believe people who advocate such measures should be willing to go themselves, which most probably aren't. :shrug:

Well, I don't believe in suicide so I wouldn't advocate a culling, voluntary or no. But then the alternatives aren't much better really.
Who knows, I don't have the answer either.
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
Well said.

Life can't exist without death. Our own survival depends on killing animals or at least plants for sustenance. Also, in our body, cells are produced and die constantly.

Also, what would happen if we suddenly could make all of us on this planet live forever? Would we stop producing more babies all of a sudden or would we continue to grow? There are 350,000+ babies born each day on this planet. That's 127,750,000 each year. Where would we find food for all these new beings? And doesn't it mean that whatever biological matter they're made of came from other life forms? Eventually the whole world would run out of animals (no more biological matter), and there would only be humans. What would we eat? Become cannibals? Sure, we can become vegetarians all of us, but the more babies we have, the less biomatter will be for plants. One solution would be to stop producing babies. Another would be to change our metabolism to eat rocks and get enough substance, or perhaps artificial pills made in a factory. Another one would be to go into space and expand to other planets. Not sure what the answer would be, but my point is that if we lived forever, we'd have an avalanche of social problems following it that we don't have answers for yet. To solve the problem of death and have eternal life, we have to solve life first, how to live such a life.

Any which way it flows, life finds a way.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
I had a nurse once tell me that medical technology is so advanced today that literally anyone who is otherwise invalid can have any of their life processes artificially maintained. Except for brain function.

She told me this in the context of her perceived widespread ignorance of "non-medical people" when tragedy strikes a family member and they aren't pronounced DOA - leading to a mess of ethical, moral and emotional considerations on behalf of the family/friends involved. Personally, I'd prefer to die than to be a quadriplegic; but if I were they'd be just about nothing I could do about it.

To the OP: in some kinda perverse way, science is able to control death. Grody topic.

People seem to know, deep down, what they really want for themselves and their families in the end.
Living wills and advanced directives can help smoothe things greatly, but they can still create family headaches if you don't agree suddenly to what's on the paper...

Why God hate abortion but cause miscarriage?
It's technically there. Jealous men accuse their wives of sleeping around, the priests give her a potion, the fetus dies, and since that was proof she slept around, they get to stone her!
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Yeah well? When will science get off it's arse and turn off gravity? I could fly to work instead of taking this miserable public transportation.

Come on, science!
You could always built yourself a pair of wings like Daedalus or Wayland did, and flap your way to work.

Of course, flapping arms would require a lot of strength and endurance. So what if your home is 10km from work?
 

Thanda

Well-Known Member
Because death is essential for natural selection to work, we leave it to the religionists to spread the lie that they can cheat death and thus pretend to avoid the almost transcendental link that natural selection provides in bridging the previous generation to the next generation through the missing link: the current generation.

"... earth to earth; ashes to ashes, dust to dust" (Book of Common Prayer), at least they just "hope" for resurrection.

Shakespeare does it better, as usual:

We fat all creatures else to fat us,
and we fat ourselves for maggots.
Your fat king and your lean beggar is but variable service,
two dishes, but to one table.
A man may fish with the worm that hath eat of a king,
and eat of the fish that hath fed of that worm.
I do show you now how a king may go a progress through the guts of a beggar.

Hamlet, Act 4 Scene 2 Page 2 - Soliloquized

Are you saying scientists are not working on ways to ensure we can one day be free of death?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Because death is inevitable.
I agree with you.
G-d gives life to us and takes it back on an appointed time:

[39:43] Allah takes away the souls of human beings at the time of their death; and during their sleep of those also that are not yet dead. And then He retains those against which He has decreed death, and sends back the others till an appointed term. In that surely are Signs for a people who reflect.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=39&verse=42
Regards
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
After decades of prosperity and success,
But still science is unable to escape "Death" why ?

It's genetic, imperfection inherited from Adam....the ends of our telomeres, located in our chromosomes, continue to shorten with age, until there is nothing left.

Then, we croak!
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Because death is inevitable.
Further to Post #111.
G-d made death inevitable, like he bestowed us life, he finishes it at a point. To create life and to end it are two attributes of G-d / Allah :
[67:1]In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[67:2]Blessed is He in Whose hand is the kingdom, and He has power over all things;
[67:3]Who has created death and life that He might try you — which of you is best in deeds; and He is the Mighty, the Most Forgiving.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=67&verse=0
Regards
 
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Well, I don't believe in suicide so I wouldn't advocate a culling, voluntary or no. But then the alternatives aren't much better really.
Who knows, I don't have the answer either.

If this weren't so difficult to achieve, perhaps giving birthing restrictions of one child per person (that makes two kids per couple) to everyone on the planet would work. That way, the parents are replaced with no population net gain, if everything was all peaches and butterflies. In reality, people would die before they can reproduce, or some people would become infertile, or some people won't want children, and yet others won't find people who want to have children with them (lol). This would create a gradual decrease in population.

This is a dream however because there are people who believe in the "be fruitful and multiply" sort of thinking, or others simply need extra help on the farm and so having 13 children is a convenient source of free labor.
 

Tiapan

Grumpy Old Man
Death is deliberately inbuilt and necessary for evolution. We are a bunch of cells, some which must die, if cells didn't die we would be born with webbed feet and hands as the cells in that region are programmed to die during the embryonic stage, so we can have independent fingers and toes.

Following Moores law scientific advancement in the Medical field over the last century has been amazing, increasing life expectancy and quality of life by almost 50%. This process is entering revolutionary epoch of the deep understanding of genomics and biochemistry allowing further increases in Longevity and Quality of Life.This has a down side. in that the burden of supporting an aging population falls to our young, as standard of living increases child mortality decreases, so average number of children decreases per family so less children to support their elderly relatives either directly or through taxes and social security. We may live longer but will eventually die.

Cryogenics may allow us to "travel" through time to some future but that is a stasis thing and actual life expectancy may not be greatly increased.

Ray Kurzweil suggests there may come a day when we can basically put our "consciousness" on a computer, surviving indefinitely until some one pulls the plug or forgets to back us up.

Cheers
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
some which must die, if cells didn't die we would be born with webbed feet and hands as the cells in that region are programmed to die during the embryonic stage, so we can have independent fingers and toes.
Is it a reality?
By the way: "If I find a real one, I'll let you know!"
Haven't you found it yet?Please
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Further to Post #111, #113
G-d made death inevitable, like he bestowed us life, he finishes it at a point. To create life and to end it are two attributes of G-d / Allah :
[4:79]Wheresoever you may be, death will overtake you, even if you be in strongly built towers. And if some good befalls them, they say, ‘This is from Allah;’ and if evil befalls them, they say, ‘This is from thee.’ Say, ‘All is from Allah.’ What has happened to these people that they come not near understanding anything?
[4:80]Whatever of good comes to thee is from Allah; and whatever of evil befalls thee is from thyself. And We have sent thee as a Messenger to mankind. And sufficient is Allah as a Witness.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=4&verse=78
Regards
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Death is deliberately inbuilt and necessary for evolution. We are a bunch of cells, some which must die, if cells didn't die we would be born with webbed feet and hands as the cells in that region are programmed to die during the embryonic stage, so we can have independent fingers and toes.

Is it a reality?

It's called apoptosis. Programmed cell death. And it's real.

Here's a summary from a textbook: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK26873/
The cells of a multicellular organism are members of a highly organized community. The number of cells in this community is tightly regulated—not simply by controlling the rate of cell division, but also by controlling the rate of cell death. If cells are no longer needed, they commit suicide by activating an intracellular death program. This process is therefore called programmed cell death, although it is more commonly called apoptosis (from a Greek word meaning “falling off,” as leaves from a tree).

The amount of apoptosis that occurs in developing and adult animal tissues can be astonishing. In the developing vertebrate nervous system, for example, up to half or more of the nerve cells normally die soon after they are formed. In a healthy adult human, billions of cells die in the bone marrow and intestine every hour. It seems remarkably wasteful for so many cells to die, especially as the vast majority are perfectly healthy at the time they kill themselves. What purposes does this massive cell death serve?

In some cases, the answers are clear. Mouse paws, for example, are sculpted by cell death during embryonicdevelopment: they start out as spadelike structures, and the individual digits separate only as the cells between them die (Figure 17-35). In other cases, cells die when the structure they form is no longer needed. When a tadpole changes into a frog, the cells in the tail die, and the tail, which is not needed in the frog, disappears (Figure 17-36). In many other cases, cell death helps regulate cell numbers. In the developing nervous system, for example, cell death adjusts the number of nerve cells to match the number of target cells that require innervation. In all these cases, the cells die by apoptosis.
 

cambridge79

Active Member
After decades of prosperity and success,
But still science is unable to escape "Death" why ?

because modern science is 500 years old and modern medicine more or less 150 years old, genetics is less than 50 years old, so even if it was possible our knowledge is still too little for such an accomplishment.

But actually my problem is the opposite, how would our world change if we eventually end up being able to control or avoid death?
imagne a world where people don't die but they still have babies, that would collapse in a couple of generation times.
Or a world where rich people and powerful people won't die, imagine an immortal dictator of north korea.
that's damn scary.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
because modern science is 500 years old and modern medicine more or less 150 years old, genetics is less than 50 years old, so even if it was possible our knowledge is still too little for such an accomplishment.

But actually my problem is the opposite, how would our world change if we eventually end up being able to control or avoid death?
imagne a world where people don't die but they still have babies, that would collapse in a couple of generation times.
Or a world where rich people and powerful people won't die, imagine an immortal dictator of north korea.
that's damn scary.
It is a mercy of G-d that one dies at a stage and gets a new life in heaven of new dimensions.
Regards
 
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