Why science unable to control Death ?

[Thief]

Not to generate the spirit for the spirit comes from the on high...Genesis 2:7 ....but to generate in combination with the incarnate spirit....a sense of unique soul that identifies with the body in time and space.....which then results in an apparent separation with the parent spirit which is divine...

you mean to say...?....
this life forms spirit without the immediate thought and heart of God

we are separate of God in this life

 

[Sunstone]

...science refuses to consider the existence of God.

The sciences do not "refuse to consider the existence of God". Your god is merely unneeded to explain anything.

 

[Thief]

The sciences do not "refuse to consider the existence of God". Your god is merely unneeded to explain anything.

and seeking the Ultimate Cause .....is not a scientific endeavor?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

you mean to say...?....
this life forms spirit without the immediate thought and heart of God

we are separate of God in this life

Genesis 2:7 is not saying the life forms spirit....but the incarnating spirit gives life....

You see the adjective 'apparent' and know what it means... not all souls are aware of the underlying ubiqueness of their uniqueness among other unique beings...

 

[Thief]

Genesis 2:7 is not saying the life forms spirit....but the incarnating spirit gives life....

You see the adjective 'apparent' and know what it means... not all souls are aware of the underlying ubiqueness of their uniqueness among other unique beings...

ok....I can see that bees and ants may not have a sense of unique spirit.
and even higher forms like dogs ....may lean to the pack....

but we humans are unique...no matter what

even with God in their presence.....Adam and Eve seemed to think on their own

and THAT quality is what cause God to be mindful of Man

 

[Sunstone]

and seeking the Ultimate Cause .....is not a scientific endeavor?

"Ultimate cause"? That seems far too assumptive. How could you know, for instance, that there is an ultimate cause? Even, to take an implausible possibility, if you somehow genuinely discovered that deity was a cause of the Big Bang. How could you know that deity was the ultimate cause?

 

[Thief]

"Ultimate cause"? That seems far too assumptive. How could you know, for instance, that there is an ultimate cause? Even, to take an implausible possibility, if you somehow genuinely discovered that deity was a cause of the Big Bang. How could you know that deity was the ultimate cause?

well...Something had to be first.
effect follows cause.

and I place Spirit first....because...
substance is not self starting
substance does not move of it's own volition

that big bang....
I view as the snap of God's fingers

 

[Sunstone]

well...Something had to be first.
effect follows cause.

As it happens, that's an unwarranted assumption, as you would know if you took the trouble to think through the implications of your own notion of deity. You think of your deity as "eternal", do you not?

 

[Thief]

As it happens, that's an unwarranted assumption, as you would know if you took the trouble to think through the implications of your own notion of deity. You think of your deity as "eternal", do you not?

as if to say .....He cannot exist if not eternal?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

ok....I can see that bees and ants may not have a sense of unique spirit.
and even higher forms like dogs ....may lean to the pack....

but we humans are unique...no matter what

even with God in their presence.....Adam and Eve seemed to think on their own

and THAT quality is what cause God to be mindful of Man

Of course....Adam and Eve were unique souls....all souls are unique..a soul is a compound of matter and divine spirit....when the body of Adam died....the spirit, now with the synthesized essence of the life's time and space experiences modulated upon it. leaves the clay tabernacle...when that spirit reincarnates....it has new experiences under a different name...and reincarnates still...the spirit that once was Daniel is probably incarnate now... Daniel 12:13

 

[outhouse]

and seeking the Ultimate Cause .....is not a scientific endeavor?

Mythology has no business in any aspect of this

 

[Sunstone]

as if to say .....He cannot exist if not eternal?

As if to say, if deity can be eternal, then so can a multiverse. If one first accepts the notion of an eternity (i.e. infinite time), then little or nothing prevents one from positing that a multiverse might be eternal. Indeed, if you look at in one way, the concept of eternity all but demands that there be an eternal multiverse.

 

[Deeje]

The on high is not talking about living forever as a clay being...but about spirit.. The punishment was to expel the young soul from returning to Paradise... Remember in Genesis 2:7...the divine spirit incarnates in the clay body.. Now when Adam died...that spirit did not return to its original perfect state, but eventually reincarnated and has done so until now... If you reject this interpretation, then the only other interpretation is that there is a completely new spirit of God that incarnates in every new baby since the days of Adam....and if this was so there would not have been any evolutionary progress that now puts us in the space age... But Jesus reopens the portal that leads the mature spirit to leave the clay body and return to paradise...the kingdom of heaven.. Revelation 22:1-5

OMG !!...are you talking about the Bible or some weird science-fiction movie? Where on earth are you getting this stuff?

Gen 2:7:
"And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person."

What does it say? Jehovah formed the man from the dust (elements) of the earth, and when God animated him with the "breath of life" he became "a living person." (Heb nephesh "soul")

The Bible's formula is simple. A body + spirit (breath) = a soul. There is no incarnation....no reincarnation, no putting of souls into bodies. The "soul" is the person themselves, not something that inhabits the body. The "spirit" is not the soul but the breath that keeps us alive. When the last breath leaves our body, the soul dies. All consciousness ceases. (Ezek 18:4; Psalm 146:4; Eccl 9:5, 10) The meaning of the word "soul" in Hebrew is a "breather". Animals are souls too.

Rev 22:1-5:
"And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of its main street. On both sides of the river were trees of life producing 12 crops of fruit, yielding their fruit each month. And the leaves of the trees were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there will no longer be any curse. But the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his slaves will offer him sacred service; 4 and they will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5 Also, night will be no more, and they have no need of lamplight or sunlight, for Jehovah God will shed light upon them, and they will rule as kings forever and ever."

Remember this was a vision. The things John is shown are symbolic, not literal. This foreshadows the results of God's kingdom rulership in the hands of his Christ and those chosen from the earth to rule with him. Those who inhabit the heavenly realm have no need of the things that sustain earthly creatures, like sunlight.
Rev 20:6 tells us that those who will rule with Jesus are also priests as well as kings. These will bring the blessings of the kingdom to all obedient ones, curing their illnesses, eliminating death, and restoring God's rule over mankind. (Rev 21:1-5)

Can you tell me who it is that these ones will rule?...and for whom they will act as priests? Those who go to heaven give up their sinful flesh and are given divine spirit bodies so that they can dwell in the presence of God. These are no longer sinners so for who do they perform their duties as priests?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

OMG !!...are you talking about the Bible or some weird science-fiction movie? Where on earth are you getting this stuff?

Gen 2:7:
"And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person."

What does it say? Jehovah formed the man from the dust (elements) of the earth, and when God animated him with the "breath of life" he became "a living person." (Heb nephesh "soul")

The Bible's formula is simple. A body + spirit (breath) = a soul. There is no incarnation....no reincarnation, no putting of souls into bodies. The "soul" is the person themselves, not something that inhabits the body. The "spirit" is not the soul but the breath that keeps us alive. When the last breath leaves our body, the soul dies. All consciousness ceases. (Ezek 18:4; Psalm 146:4; Eccl 9:5, 10) The meaning of the word "soul" in Hebrew is a "breather". Animals are souls too.

Rev 22:1-5:
"And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of its main street. On both sides of the river were trees of life producing 12 crops of fruit, yielding their fruit each month. And the leaves of the trees were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there will no longer be any curse. But the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his slaves will offer him sacred service; 4 and they will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5 Also, night will be no more, and they have no need of lamplight or sunlight, for Jehovah God will shed light upon them, and they will rule as kings forever and ever."

Remember this was a vision. The things John is shown are symbolic, not literal. This foreshadows the results of God's kingdom rulership in the hands of his Christ and those chosen from the earth to rule with him. Those who inhabit the heavenly realm have no need of the things that sustain earthly creatures, like sunlight.
Rev 20:6 tells us that those who will rule with Jesus are also priests as well as kings. These will bring the blessings of the kingdom to all obedient ones, curing their illnesses, eliminating death, and restoring God's rule over mankind. (Rev 21:1-5)

Can you tell me who it is that these ones will rule?...and for whom they will act as priests? Those who go to heaven give up their sinful flesh and are given divine spirit bodies so that they can dwell in the presence of God. These are no longer sinners so for who do they perform their duties as priests?

How is that different from what I said...that's how I described the creation of Adam ...according to Genesis 2:7 ....but where we differ, you seem to believe that the same process continues to this day....nothing has changed since the incarnation in Adam...that you exist because a fresh spirit of God incarnated in the baby Deeje, just as in Adam? How has the technological evolution of the human race come about if every new person is a soul whose animating spirit has never incarnated before.....if it were like that...nothing would ever change...still only nomads living off the land?

 

[Deeje]

How is that different from what I said...that's how I described the creation of Adam ...according to Genesis 2:7 ....but where we differ, you seem to believe that the same process continues to this day....nothing has changed since the incarnation in Adam...that you exist because a fresh spirit of God incarnated in the baby Deeje, just as in Adam?

I think where we differ is that you misunderstand God's first purpose. He established human life and told the humans to "be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it".
There was no idea about heaven and hell...there was just the prospect of unending life in a global paradise that humans themselves would create with their own hands and creativity. God planted the garden and it was a virtual blueprint of what the whole earth was to become under their oversight.

The spirit (breath) is passed on to us at birth as a natural consequence of being born. There is no intervention from God because life begins at conception, completely independent of him. It is a process programmed to produce a complete human being from the union of just two cells without any conscious intervention in the process from either mother or father in just 40 weeks.

How has the technological evolution of the human race come about if every new person is a soul whose animating spirit has never incarnated before.....if it were like that...nothing would ever change...still only nomads living off the land?

I don't see how this assumption is reached from anything recorded in the Bible. There was no mention of life before death or after it in Genesis. There was just a choice to live by being obedient...or to die by breaking one law....the only cause of death in existence.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I think where we differ is that you misunderstand God's first purpose. He established human life and told the humans to "be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it".
There was no idea about heaven and hell...there was just the prospect of unending life in a global paradise that humans themselves would create with their own hands and creativity. God planted the garden and it was a virtual blueprint of what the whole earth was to become under their oversight.

The spirit (breath) is passed on to us at birth as a natural consequence of being born. There is no intervention from God because life begins at conception, completely independent of him. It is a process programmed to produce a complete human being from the union of just two cells without any conscious intervention in the process from either mother or father in just 40 weeks.



I don't see how this assumption is reached from anything recorded in the Bible. There was no mention of life before death or after it in Genesis. There was just a choice to live by being obedient...or to die by breaking one law....the only cause of death in existence.

You have not addressed my question....a clay body can not be alive without divine spirit incarnating in it to make it a living soul...so are you believing the divine spirit which incarnated in the clay body named Deeje to make you a living soul is no different to the divine spirit that incarnated in Adam, ie. it is virgin spirit in that it has never experienced incarnation before?

 

[Thief]

As if to say, if deity can be eternal, then so can a multiverse. If one first accepts the notion of an eternity (i.e. infinite time), then little or nothing prevents one from positing that a multiverse might be eternal. Indeed, if you look at in one way, the concept of eternity all but demands that there be an eternal multiverse.

not sure of multiple universes would be required.
the spoken word..... universe.....implies 'one word'

 

[Thief]

Of course....Adam and Eve were unique souls....all souls are unique..a soul is a compound of matter and divine spirit....when the body of Adam died....the spirit, now with the synthesized essence of the life's time and space experiences modulated upon it. leaves the clay tabernacle...when that spirit reincarnates....it has new experiences under a different name...and reincarnates still...the spirit that once was Daniel is probably incarnate now... Daniel 12:13

I haven't ruled out reincarnation.
but we increase in numbers hour by hour
so...I suspect more likely.....new souls......
day by day

 

[Deeje]

You have not addressed my question....a clay body can not be alive without divine spirit incarnating in it to make it a living soul...so are you believing the divine spirit which incarnated in the clay body named Deeje to make you a living soul is no different to the divine spirit that incarnated in Adam, ie. it is virgin spirit in that it has never experienced incarnation before?

ben d I have no idea where this whole concept of yours comes from, but it isn't what the Bible teaches.

The "clay body" was Adam's and the elements of the earth make up all matter. We as human offspring of Adam, are created by parents who come together to each donate a living cell which when united, forms a new human being. The process is miraculous, but there is no divine spirit that incarnates in that body such as occurred with Adam. He was a direct creation of God, but he had the ability to impart life as a life-giver to others. It is an undirected process.

The spirit that animates any living creature is its breath. A newborn takes its first breath as a natural process...all living souls breath the same air and experience the same "life" at birth. The thing that separates human souls from animal souls is that we alone are not programmed to die. The breath we receive at birth was supposed to keep on going...forever. When humankind fell into sin and disobedience, death came to us and now we lose our spirit when we breathe our last breath. Our hope of living again is by resurrection. There is no invisible, conscious part of us that goes anywhere when we die. Resurrection is a return to life, either in a spirit body to reign with Christ in heaven, or in a physical body, resurrected to live as an earthly subject of those heavenly rulers.

 

[leibowde84]

Why can't science control death? Because science can"t control anything - science only explains the actions of things that happen in nature. And sometimes those explanations are not correct because science refuses to consider the existence of God.

Science only considers verifiable evidence and falsifiable theories. God is not falsifiable and there is no verifiable evidence for God's existence. So it can't be blamed on science.