What is the word 'now ' to describe Jesus at Matthew 25:34,40_______________
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Why I believe in Christ
- Thread starter mmarco
- Start date
What is the word 'now ' to describe Jesus at Matthew 25:34,40_______________
Mitty
Active Member
Anything Paul wrote is just his personal opinion and irrelevant since he never even met Jesus.
Where do any of the Gospel writers say that Jesus claimed to be without sin?
If you believe otherwise then why didn't he stone the adulteress?
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Mitty
Active Member
It's just fanciful writing about some future fantasy written decades after Jesus was executed for sedition and falsely claiming to be the "King of the Jews".
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Already asked and answered; you didn't understand.
Which law do you think Jesus means?
The one given by those of old,* or the law given by Jesus?
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: *
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all... 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you
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* Matthew 19:7 They say unto Him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? 8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
The Kingdom of God is this higher standard. From the beginning.
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The first eleven verses of John chapter 8 are spurious verses. Add ons. Not part of the original manuscripts.
Luke 1:35 was a gospel writer and Luke wrote Jesus was ' holy ' holy means without sin.
According to Luke at Acts of the Apostles chapter 9 Paul met the resurrected Jesus.
Peter considers Paul to be a ' beloved brother ' - 2 Peter 3:15
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Jesus never claimed to be the Jewish King, did He?
No, He did not.
Still Divided Kingdom
1 Kings 11:31 and he said to Jeroboam, Take to thyself ten pieces, for thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Behold, I rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon
34 Howbeit I will not take the whole kingdom out of his hand
35 But I will take the kingdom out of the hand of his son
It happened before... and it happened again:
Matthew 21:39 And they caught Him, and cast [Him] out of the vineyard, and slew [Him].
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard His parables, they perceived that He spake of them.
Matthew 15:24 But He answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 4:15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, [by] the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; 16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
Jeremias 18: 3 So I went down to the potter’s house, and behold, he was making a vessel on the stones. 4 And the vessel which he was making with his hands fell: so he made it again another vessel, as it seemed good to him to make it. 5 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 6 Shall I not be able, O house of Israel, to do to you as this potter? behold, as the clay of the potter are ye in My hands.
19:1 Then said the Lord to me, Go and get an earthen bottle ... 10 And thou shalt break the bottle ... in pieces which cannot be mended again. 13 And the houses of Jerusalem, and the houses of the kings of Juda shall be as a ruinous place
Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see Me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed [is] He that cometh in the name of the Lord.
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OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
The Chief Priests and Pharisees killed Him for His inheritance.
Jesus tells us so, right here:
Matthew 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the Son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill Him, and let us seize on His inheritance.
21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard His parables, they perceived that He spake of them.
Jesus says Pharisees are the sons of Cain, here:
Matthew 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias
... and the blood trail includes the prophets and wise men and scribes sent by Jesus... which includes the two witnesses, because they're prophets sent by Jesus, too.
Who the heck are these guys?
So, basically not in the lifetime of any human living before the tribulation period, only those who have endured the persecution of the antichrist during the tribulation period? As I said, No. That's not for us. Only a very small, select few, in some future dystopian nightmare.
I don't buy it.
This is so battle-torn. I'm looking for love. Not some victors in some ego-climax at the end of times.
OtherSheep
<--@ Titangel
Luke wasn't there. Hearsay.
Lots of people thought 2 Peter was a forgery from day one... how can you not know that?
Paul made several different claims about meeting Jesus in the wilderness road of Damascus... he played to the audience, changing the story accordingly. And he must have forgotten all about it when he said the devil dresses up as an angel of light, because that's exactly how he described Jesus... who was actually seen by John to be like a Son of Man right down to His feet... not a like what Paul claimed.
If I had to choose one or the other, I'd pick the one who was a Discipled Apostle... not the one who claims to be, over and over again... as though he gets questioned about it on a regular basis. The same way he said he lied not. Who does that, if he's never been accused? But then... I am tending to think that several Pauls claimed the stage. Some of them say all things are lawful, and some say keep this laundry list of laws or else.
Mitty
Active Member
In other words Jesus wasn't without sin since he didn't stone the adulteress as commanded in Leviticus 20:10.
Mitty
Active Member
Wrong. The Romans executed Jesus for sedition, which is why they mocked him as the "King of the Jews".
But what has that story about a vineyard owner got to do with Jesus and his execution by the Romans for sedition?
But what has that got to do with the Romans executing Jesus for sedition?
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Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
That has never made any sense to me that a god can suffer and die. And for a rule he himself made. He sacrificed himself to himself....it's nonsensical.
mmarco
Member
Actually it makes a lot of sense if you look at it from the correct perpective.
Let me try to explain this:
God loves us infinitely, and He desires to lead each of us to the true life and true happiness, a condition existing only in communion with God. But God cannot tolerate evil and sin, because they are incompatible with His good and holy nature. A deep interior change is then necessary for all of us to reach the eternal happiness; we must be sanctified and purified from all our evil and sinful desires. God has the power to change us but He wants to do that with our consent. In fact God has chosen to create man with a free will, He wants to respect our free will. Man cannot really accept to be changed by God and he cannot be in comunion with God as long as even a shadow of doubt and distrust remains in his heart ( it must be stressed that such a distrust may exist even without the man is aware of it, at the unconscious level).
In order to destroy every shadow of doubt and distrust in our heart, God has chosen to give us the greatest proof of love that may exist: Christ's Passion. Christ's Passion has reconciled us to God because it has uprooted from our heart our distrust and doubts about God's love; so Christ's sacrifice is what helps us to believe in God's love , and therefore what allows us to be saved.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
You are missing the point entirely. How can a god suffer, and how can a god die? Further, The only reason there was a death was because the god decided that was the way he wanted to do things. It isn't like he had absolutely no choice how he made the world. So he deliberately decided to do this at the very beginning. No sense at all.
The free will is bunk. There is no such thing as free will in the libertarian sense. Our decisions are made based upon genetics, current influences, past experiences we don't even remember. our behavior is molded from birth. It is utterly impossible to be consciously aware of everything that influences the choices we make.
Virtually everything you stated about what your god wants is a series of assertions you cannot support with evidence.
And perspective does not change that facts.
We probably should discontinue this conversation, though....this is an "interfaith" thread and I don't want to steer it away from it's intended purpose.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
As a human, I know that other humans lie for their own reasons, to coerce and control and manipulate human groups and choices.
It is our lived human experience.
So if a male as a group historically invented by human reasoning all statements and status for science, wanted a particular outcome, but did not achieve it....then isn't science a liar, as that male group?
The answer is an obvious yes.
Humans always asked, how can you claim Jesus saved our life, when humans have lived in non stop physical pain and suffering torture since? And they challenged the brothers who preached that topic. How come?
Reality. The scientific status, a group of liars told everyone by science observers who say by science that science is a self destructive liar, as scientists, for it is, that you lied.
Said water ground mass evaporation, life support for Nature from above radiation burning gas effects was removed from our living ownership....in a huge UFO activated mass evaporation off the ground. Life living in that interactive machine caused ground effect was dying sacrificed. With a huge population suffering the radiation effect.
So they formed a new human group like ufologists did...and named it Christian who petitioned all of the lying Satanists in the past. For you all seem to forget, Satanists owned the control of the communities with their science causes in the past, not Christians.
The Christian scientific realisation was introduced, for the Revelations were proven real.
Science told the correct story and said that mass ground water evaporation saved our life, otherwise we would have all been sent to Hell, by your choices. For it was real. The probability of causes in the cross of the 4 sea of the son predicted, the Earth attack real. For it was known.
Science by Roman decree, the Temple was then attacked and removed from its evil operating conditions....to attack life.
Life however now lived with Jesus Rule, his image of owned water ground mass and our oxygen and microbiome, removed from our health.
We then lived sacrificed saved with Jesus.....how the scientific thesis was once taught.
And it said, water ground mass evaporation, plagues and also flooding and activated natural disasters would be advised and realised until the Year 2012 when it would End and cease.
And then Jesus in the clouds, our GROUND WATER mass would get returned to our life, we would heal from the radiation attack and the UFO would be gone/removed as the Destroyer attacker.
You Satanic science organization did not allow us to achieve our promise to our natural healthy life return. And once again the lying history of occult science is a proven liar.
It is our lived human experience.
So if a male as a group historically invented by human reasoning all statements and status for science, wanted a particular outcome, but did not achieve it....then isn't science a liar, as that male group?
The answer is an obvious yes.
Humans always asked, how can you claim Jesus saved our life, when humans have lived in non stop physical pain and suffering torture since? And they challenged the brothers who preached that topic. How come?
Reality. The scientific status, a group of liars told everyone by science observers who say by science that science is a self destructive liar, as scientists, for it is, that you lied.
Said water ground mass evaporation, life support for Nature from above radiation burning gas effects was removed from our living ownership....in a huge UFO activated mass evaporation off the ground. Life living in that interactive machine caused ground effect was dying sacrificed. With a huge population suffering the radiation effect.
So they formed a new human group like ufologists did...and named it Christian who petitioned all of the lying Satanists in the past. For you all seem to forget, Satanists owned the control of the communities with their science causes in the past, not Christians.
The Christian scientific realisation was introduced, for the Revelations were proven real.
Science told the correct story and said that mass ground water evaporation saved our life, otherwise we would have all been sent to Hell, by your choices. For it was real. The probability of causes in the cross of the 4 sea of the son predicted, the Earth attack real. For it was known.
Science by Roman decree, the Temple was then attacked and removed from its evil operating conditions....to attack life.
Life however now lived with Jesus Rule, his image of owned water ground mass and our oxygen and microbiome, removed from our health.
We then lived sacrificed saved with Jesus.....how the scientific thesis was once taught.
And it said, water ground mass evaporation, plagues and also flooding and activated natural disasters would be advised and realised until the Year 2012 when it would End and cease.
And then Jesus in the clouds, our GROUND WATER mass would get returned to our life, we would heal from the radiation attack and the UFO would be gone/removed as the Destroyer attacker.
You Satanic science organization did not allow us to achieve our promise to our natural healthy life return. And once again the lying history of occult science is a proven liar.
mmarco
Member
God is omnipotent. God is out of time and out of space, but He can enter time and space and assume the human nature; as a human being, God can suffer and die, This is a fundamental element of the christian faith.
It makes a lot of sense; In fact He decided to create man with a free will; God respect our free will, because if He destroyed our free will, He would distroy the essence of the human being. We can be saved from our own sins only if we believe that God is good and loves us; God has then chosen to convince us by giving us the greatest proof of love, the Passion of Christ.
This is an arbitrary assumption of yours and I totally disagree; we have free will.
mmarco
Member
Jesus has saved all those who believe in Him; however, this salvation refers to our santification, a deep change of our inner selves which has nothing to do with physical sufferings.
Mitty
Active Member
Abraham's god, however, was neither an omniscient or omnipresent type of god, given that it needed to have a face to face chat with Abraham about the number of righteous children in Sodom and then walked down to Sodom to count them for itself after sharing a meal with Abraham (Gen 18).
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Mitty
Active Member
Which is why Moses & Noah & Abraham & David weren't saved and never went to heaven (John 3:13) even though David was his god's begotten son (Psalm 2:6-7).
mmarco
Member
You must understand that the Bible often uses an allegorical language, exactly like Jesus who spoke to the crows in parables.