Why I believe America will soon lose its democracy.

[Evangelicalhumanist]

There is a difference between someone who has been born, is breathing, is conscious and a fetus that is none of those.

I bet if you tossed the latter into his hands, he'd shriek in horror and throw it to the floor!

 

[Revoltingest]

Of course. But that "reality" is one of the reasons for my conviction about the future of democracy in the US.Germans were pretty surprised in 1933 and 1934 when Hitler dismantled democracy in Germany and turned it into a dictatorship.

"Few Germans believed this could happen. In fact, many did not believe Hitler would remain in power for long. After all, in the 14 years since the creation of the Weimar Republic, Germany had had 14 chancellors, most of whom served for less than a year. Recalling a discussion with his father on the day Hitler became chancellor, journalist Sebastian Haffner wrote in 1939:

"'I discussed the prospects of the new government with my father. We agreed that it had a good chance of doing a lot of damage, but not much chance of surviving very long...How could things turn out so completely different?'" Facing History and Ourselves​

And yet....our "Hitler" was sent packing despite
his attempts to stage a coup in the White House.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

And yet....our "Hitler" was sent packing despite
his attempts to stage a coup in the White House.

Don't fret, Ron DeSantis has been watching carefully, and learning from Trump's mistakes.

 

[Revoltingest]

Don't fret, Ron DeSantis has been watching carefully, and learning from Trump's mistakes.

You're imagining that because Hitler existed,
every subsequent politician might be the next.
Therefore USA will follow suit. Quite a stretch.

 

[SkepticThinker]

What gives me the right to call murder wrong? Are you even being serious?

That doesn't answer the question either.

 

[SkepticThinker]

There's no difference as far as their rights and status as human beings.

There is a ginormous difference. I have no idea why you refuse to see it.

Blastocysts/zygotes/fetuses don't have the same rights or status as already born, fully formed human beings. That's an absurd claim. I mean you seriously believe that a clump of cells without a central nervous system, functioning organs or a brain or any ability at all to survive on its own, has the exact same rights/status as a born, fully formed human being? How on earth can you justify that?

 

[SkepticThinker]

So I guess we can kill the mentally damaged then?

You're responding too quickly and not actually paying attention to what is being said.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Live with it. We have had to for too long.

Your claim has been thoroughly refuted.
You are in the minority. Not only that, your position on this is beyond extreme. You afford absolutely zero rights to women and all the rights to blastocysts/zygotes/fetuses. You even want 11 year old rape victims to be forced to carry to term and give birth.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Why are you afraid to answer my questions. And deal with the current state of law and not your far right extremist beliefs and answering my questions.

Extremist? You already revealed yourself as a pro death extremist.
You think it's okay to kill toddlers in certain situations.
I don't have to justify wanting laws against the death of humans.

 

[Wildswanderer]

"Mentally damaged" people are conscious, have brain activity and are capable of feeling pain. Want to try again?

So do the unborn.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Have you ever had something FORCED UPON YOU that you didn't want to be forced on you? Was it a "miracle" that you still treasure today?

You know, I've had you on ignore for weeks, and wondered why I was so much happier. Now that I'm reminded, bye bye.

Have a nice life. Be glad your Mom didn't decide to kill you!

 

[SkepticThinker]

Extremist? You already revealed yourself as a pro death extremist.
You think it's okay to kill toddlers in certain situations.
I don't have to justify wanting laws against the death of humans.

No, you have revealed yourself as a "pro death extremist.". You think an 11 year old girl should be forced to have her body ripped apart against her will because you value the "rights" of a blastocyst/zygote/fetus more than you value the 11 Year-old's life. That's not the position of someone who values human life. Never mind your position on gun control.

Nobody has said, implied or suggested anywhere on this thread that "it's okay to kill toddlers in certain situations." Nothing of the sort. You're just not paying attention to the arguments being made in their entirety. That's your failing.

 

[Secret Chief]

So do the unborn.

Not a (for example) blastocyst. It has no nervous system. To compare a few cells to a autonomous creature is perverse at best.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Not a (for example) blastocyst. It has no nervous system. To compare a few cells to a autonomous creature is perverse at best.

Those living cells develop into your children. They are never less than human beings.

 

[Wildswanderer]

No, you have revealed yourself as a "pro death extremist.". You think an 11 year old girl should be forced to have her body ripped apart against her will because you value the "rights" of a blastocyst/zygote/fetus more than you value the 11 Year-old's life.

No, I value all humans equally.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, I value all humans equally.

You have made it quite clear that you do not.
Hence your inability or unwillingness to respond directly to actual examples and questions being posed to you on this matter.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

You're imagining that because Hitler existed,
every subsequent politician might be the next.
Therefore USA will follow suit. Quite a stretch.

No, sir. I am imagining it because of what I've seen large numbers of Republicans and Trump supporters ready and willing to do. That was something Madeleine Albright saw, too, in her 2018 book Fascism: A Warning.

Albright once said: "A Fascist is someone who claims to speak for a whole nation or group, is utterly unconcerned with the rights of others, and is willing to use violence and whatever other means are necessary to achieve the goals he or she might have.” I think there's an abundance of that in the U.S. (and elsewhere) today, on both sides of the political center, but in my view, much more on the right than the left.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, sir. I am imagining it because of what I've seen large numbers of Republicans and Trump supporters ready and willing to do. That was something Madeleine Albright saw, too, in her 2018 book Fascism: A Warning.

They tried.
They failed.
And now...
Increasingly abandoned and isolated, will Trump burn it all down?

Albright once said: "A Fascist is someone who claims to speak for a whole nation or group, is utterly unconcerned with the rights of others, and is willing to use violence and whatever other means are necessary to achieve the goals he or she might have.” I think there's an abundance of that in the U.S. (and elsewhere) today, on both sides of the political center, but in my view, much more on the right than the left.

Signs of fascism are omnipresent.
This doesn't mean it's imminent.

Have you been doomscrolling?
Don't do that.

 

[PureX]

If Congress refuses to charge and convict, then the President is above the law. That means that if enough political supporters are in Congress, the President can act any way he or she wants. And yes, unfortunately, that would include shooting the Speaker of the House.

In the case of Trump and Jan 6, I think there is also a case to be made that he was already tried and acquitted by Congress. That was what the second impeachment was all about. So there *could* be a double jeopardy situation involved.

What *should* happen is that Trump, Giuliani, and Eastman should be charged and convicted of treason.

But it won't happen.

Impeachment trial (civil) vs. treason (criminal). No "double jeopardy".

 

[Polymath257]

Impeachment trial (civil) vs. treason (criminal). No "double jeopardy".

It isn't entirely clear that impeachment is a civil procedure. Given that the result can be conviction and removal from office, it seems like a criminal investigation.

I am not an attorney, so I could be wrong here.