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Why I believe America will soon lose its democracy.

Discussion in 'North American Politics' started by Evangelicalhumanist, Jun 21, 2022 at 6:43 PM.

  1. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    I've said this in many threads, that my observations tell me that the Great American Experiment with democracy is, in the past few years and continuing for the next few, failing -- and that democracy is likely to soon be "in name only," and eventually disappear. But let me tell you why I think this is true. And it really is the simplest reason of all:

    When a nation (or a very significant proportion of it) becomes convinced that they can't trust their own elections -- as the Trump "Big Lie" seems to have done for a huge number of people -- that when it doesn't go their way it can only be because it was "stolen" from them, well, what is left except violence to decide who gets to rule?

    You're almost there, America. How are you going to find your way back to a real democracy, "a Republic, if you can keep it?"
     
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  2. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    The main question I have is what form the collapse will take.

    One possibility is a civil war, possibly at a low intensity. that could easily lead to military rule.

    The other possibility is a one party state that has 'elections' that it has manipulated to the point that they always win. This seems the more likely possibility.

    Don't forget that the emperors of ancient Rome kept the Senate around for form while actually ruling with an iron fist.
     
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  3. Aštra’el

    Aštra’el Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth

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    You do not understand America nearly as much as you think you do.
     
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  4. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...
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    Haven't seen much evidence from you about the amazing depth of your understanding. Care to elaborate?
     
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  5. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Well-Known Member

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    I assume you are talking about the democrats?
     
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  6. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    Some people saw it decades ago.

    Gordon Gekko: The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock and real estate speculation. It's bull****. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal. The news, war, peace, famine, upheaval, the price per paper clip. We pick that rabbit out of the hat while everybody sits out there wondering how the hell we did it. Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market.
     
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  7. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Hardly. The Reps are the ones trying to suppress the vote, trying to gerrymander the states, and trying to overturn elections. They already have a concerted plan to dominate election boards and overturn any results they don't like.
     
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  8. Wildswanderer

    Wildswanderer Well-Known Member

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    What a crock. The last election was stolen by the left suppressing information.
     
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  9. vulcanlogician

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    I wonder if the preponderance of misinformation in general might play a role in democracy's eventual collapse. As voters, we're supposed to use the best of our abilities to make decisions about given issues.

    As it turns out, misinformation has always been useful to corral people toward a given objective. I do not doubt that misinformation has always played as much as a role (if not more of) than information in political campaigns. But we are entering a kind of wild west of misinformation, the likes we perhaps have never seen before.

    OP cited the Trumpian "Big Lie" as one bit of misinformation that could undermine the voters' ability to take seriously the electoral process. But I fear this could be the tip of the iceberg. Everyone choosing their own truth or conspiracy theory, due to political preferences, in such a brash and outrageous way... seems like it could negatively impact the electorate's ability to make good decisions.

    Those who would want to overthrow democracy might not need to resort to violence. They could achieve that end simply by casting their vote.
     
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  10. Orbit

    Orbit I'm a planet

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    Source?
     
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  11. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
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    This kind of belief in conspiracies is not new. Many people still believe that Satan directly influences and attempts to create atheist states, attempts to wipe out religion and kill children or harm them. Many believe that Israel's appearance is evidence that all of the above are true. In addition there are hordes, great hordes of people with little or no understanding of physics and are vulnerable to very strange claims such as claims about nanites in vaccines. I am not kidding when I recount that someone literally tried to tell me that their internet research had led them to believe that the pandemic vaccines were part of a plot to put nanites into us. They believed this, and they wanted me to do 'My own research' to confirm it to myself.

    At the same time a lot of people who believe in all the above nevertheless strongly believe in having a republic. They believe it is important to preserve the constitution and our freedoms, and they believe this in spite of believing in raptures or satan's schemes internationally. Even those who don't know anything about physics will generally, usually, believe in having a republic.

    The younger generations, though, may not believe so strongly in having a republic. I'm not sure what they believe. I don't know what is taught in schools, what is not, what they learn from their newer music and entertainment. I'm out of touch with the newer generations.
     
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  12. The Hammer

    The Hammer Lord of Animals
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    This is where I think we are heading.
     
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  13. The Sum of Awe

    The Sum of Awe Brought to you by the moment that spacetime began.

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    It doesn't help that there is a large culture war in the center of all NA Politics. Everyone needs to fit their stereotype, fight to the extremes and everyone against them is bad. Jedi vs Sith.

    If we could just get rid of the concept of Blue vs Red and Donkey vs Elephant, and have more than just 2 politicians in the primaries, maybe this wouldn't be such a marketed thing and we'd get better leaders.
     
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  14. ideogenous_mover

    ideogenous_mover Well-Known Member

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    I think maybe a big part of what the country needs, are charismatic philosophers who bring the country together. I listen to long podcasts of popular youtube influencers, but sorry to say, I think they all kind of fail. They have to step it up, and start bridging the gaps, rather than focusing on the division. I think maybe at this point, the speech powers they have represent the biotic environment of the country's stomach. We need 'probiotic philosophers' to digest, that will give health to the metaphorical body of the country
     
  15. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    If you believe in that, I must assume that you have a very distant, flexible, loose relationship with truth and facts.
     
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  16. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    Personally, I think that is more of a consequence than a solution. There is only so much condition to find dialog and mutual understanding when the authoritarians are dead set into disrepecting anything that might question their dear fantasies.
     
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  17. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the worst of it will happen right away. Let's say that Trump's election fraud conspiracy worked, and the 6 conservative SC justices let his get away with it for whatever reasons, I suspect life in America for the vast majority would carry on, much like in Russia. The problem will be when Democrats and pro-democracy advocates push back and people like Trump in the administration will start bending the rules and work to threaten these people, much the way election officials and their families were threatened after Trump lost. It would not take too much persuasion by Trump to have the MAGAs turn violent. I think that's when the USA starts looking more like Russia under Putin than a democracy.

    The question is what will happen in blue states where they have a certain degree of autonomy. I can see the MAGAs start imposing more authority other these states to a degree they won't be able to function without compliance. Trump tried to hold back funding to states before, just as he tried to withhold funding to Ukraine.

    The line in the sand will be courts. So far many Trump appointees have followed the law, so if they are not a given to be complicit with the end of democracy.
     
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  18. F1fan

    F1fan Well-Known Member

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    You are one of the people that threaten the future of democracy because you accept this nonsense even though it has been debunked by republicans. If you watched the hearings and listened to the testimony of the Republicans you would understand that you accepted a lie spread by Trump and his conspirators.
     
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  19. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
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    There have been periods in U.S. history where one party had a relatively lopsided advantage over the other, such as in the decades following the Civil War when Republicans had the advantage. Then there was the era of the Depression and WW2, when Democrats were on top.

    But there was never a time when one party had total control over everything. That would be unprecedented.
     
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  20. Viker

    Viker Spirit in Black

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    A broken record with nothing sounding like a good or new tune. Ever get tired of the same ole same ole?
     
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