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Why I am an Ahmadi Muslim?

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I was born in an Ahmadi family. Yes, I am an Ahmadi Muslim not only by birth but also by conviction. One may say that I am a born again in my faith and it happened at hands of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. I never saw him but reading his books have done that. He instils love of Allah, Muhammad, Quran with signs, reasons as reason could take one to, and believing Word of Revelation that takes one beyond all that.

Regards
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I was born in an Ahmadi family. Yes, I am an Ahmadi Muslim not only by birth but also by conviction. One may say that I am a born again in my faith and it happened at hands of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. I never saw him but reading his books have done that. He instils love of Allah, Muhammad, Quran with signs, reasons as reason could take one to, and believing Word of Revelation that takes one beyond all that.

Regards
That is genuinely spiffy, paarsurrey. So..... what did you want to debate in your OP?
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
I was born in an Ahmadi family. Yes, I am an Ahmadi Muslim not only by birth but also by conviction. One may say that I am a born again in my faith and it happened at hands of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. I never saw him but reading his books have done that. He instils love of Allah, Muhammad, Quran with signs, reasons as reason could take one to, and believing Word of Revelation that takes one beyond all that.

Regards

I have seen a debate between an Ahmadi scholar and a Sunni guy. The Sunni guy was not a scholar but he issues Takfiri upon the Ahamadis. It was a very sad one to see.

I can only presume that you must be getting that also.

Really sad.

Peace bro.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I find interesting that there is still so little awareness of the existence of Ahamdi Islam as a group with beliefs and doctrine that won't always match those of other Muslims.

Information is so sparse and difficult to interpret that assumptions of some form are nearly unavoidable.

Personally, I tend to assume that the differences are of little external significance and tend to matter only when dealing with other Muslims. If the discourse and arguments are any indication, one would need to be a Muslim to feel much of a contrast between Ahmadi and non-Ahmadi Islam.
 

Jedster

Well-Known Member
I find interesting that there is still so little awareness of the existence of Ahamdi Islam as a group with beliefs and doctrine that won't always match those of other Muslims.

Information is so sparse and difficult to interpret that assumptions of some form are nearly unavoidable.

Personally, I tend to assume that the differences are of little external significance and tend to matter only when dealing with other Muslims. If the discourse and arguments are any indication, one would need to be a Muslim to feel much of a contrast between Ahmadi and non-Ahmadi Islam.
When I first was studying Islam, I spent time with the main Sunni & Shias as well as Ahmadis.
As far as I can tell the Ahmadi every day practice is the same as Sunnis, although they may mention their founder in some prayer(not sure about this).
Also I was present at a conversion ceremony. Most of the converts there were other Muslims. I don't remember the oath they took, but it did mention the founder.

For an overview of Ahamdi beliefs vs Other Muslims, see this link that also highlights that Ahmadis split into 2 groups.
If there are any errors there I am certain it will be corrected by an Ahmadi here:

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Ahmadi
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
.....Personally, I tend to assume that the differences are of little external significance .......
Peace be on you.
No:
For example:
There was lot of widely spread misunderstanding of understanding of Jihad in Muslims.

It was the first voice of Founder of Ahmadiyya Muslim Community [The Promised Messiah, Mahdi , on whom be peace], who explained from original Islamic teaching what is actual Jihad.

He wrote:
"Glory be to God! How truly inspired by the spirit of the Prophets and the righteous were those who behaved like humble, weak babies when commanded in Mecca not to resist evil even if they were cut to pieces, acting as if their hands and arms possessed no strength. Some of them were killed in the following manner: two camels were made to stand close to each other, while each of the victim’s legs were tied to the camels. Then, the camels were made to run in opposite directions. The victims were immediately torn apart just as a carrot or radish is split open. Unfortunately, the Muslims—and the maulavis in particular—ignore all these events and think of the whole world as their prey. Many maulavis are just like a hunter who moves stealthily towards a deer he is stalking in the forest, shooting his gun at precisely the right moment. They know nothing about compassion for humanity. According to them, it is an act of Islamic virtue to fire a pistol or gun at an innocent person. Where are those who will act like the Companions ra of the Holy Prophet (may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and remain patient while suffering torture? Has God commanded us to capture complete strangers and cut them to pieces or to shoot them without reason or proof of an offence? Can a religion be from God if it teaches that you can enter Paradise by killing His blameless and innocent creatures—to whom you have not even delivered the message? Is it not shameful that a complete stranger should be unjustly killed while occupied in his daily affairs, thus widowing his wife, making his children orphans, and turning his house into a funeral parlour? Which hadith or verse of the Holy Qur’an authorizes such behaviour? Is there any maulavi who can respond? Foolish people hear the word jihad, and make it an excuse for the fulfilment of their own selfish desires. (Government Angreizi aur jihad, p. 12–13)"
Page 10+ @ https://www.alislam.org/library/books/TrueIslamicConceptofJihad.pdf


It is just recent years that his understanding of Jihad is being accepted as right version.
Collection of resources about True Jihad: https://www.alislam.org/jihad/

There are indirect ways to see this matter of external importance. Why people are talking so much against Islam, even some of them think they will get support in politics if they speak against Islam........The simple answer resides in all what is said in above lines.

Thus teaching the correct Islam is the main difference between Ahmadiyya-Muslims and others.
The Founder of Islam Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was shown what horrible his people would be doing in latter days, and he foretold the solution based on divine knowledge:

The Sahabi / Companion Abu Hurairah (r.a.) said:

One day we were sitting with Holy Prophet when Surah Jumua [Quran chapter 62] was revealed. I enquired from the Holy Prophet, Who are the people to whom the words, "And among others who have not yet joined them" Salman, the Persian was sitting among us. Upon my repeated asking him the same question the Holy Prophet put his hand on Salman and said;
If faith were to go up to the Pleiades, a man from these would surely find it.
[Ref: Book of Hadith, Bukhari]


This is the Promised man who has come as Imam Mahdi and Promised Messiah (on whom be peace).

Faith going to Pleiades....These above words are like putting ocean in a pouch. They tell you all about latter days' weakness of Muslim at large.

In short, there are internal and external significance. That is why you will not find any Call comparable to this elsewhere:
https://www.alislam.org/library/books/World-Crisis-and-Pathway-to-Peace.pdf
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I think you just reinforced my claim, Dawud.

Ahmadi Muslims have a different understanding about their authority figures, certainly.

But that is only truly significant for those who deal directly with the matter. It is still a religion centered on authority figures, tradition, God and the Quran.
 

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
Smacks of proselyting...
IMHO, These are proofs for my points:
Point 1: Coming of Ahmadiyya-Muslims has changed the way Islam was being seen, mainly due to corrupt clergies. It is unfolding phenomenon.

Point 2: Please show any other Muslim leader who has moral courage to address worlds' power centers and power leaders? and why Ahmadiyya Khalifah was listened and welcomed by these power centers?....Because intelligent world leaders know Ahmadiyya Khalifah spoke [and there is 100+ year history] from heart, there was no duality.

One may disagree with a creed but it is no proselytizing.

Truth spreads by itself.

For exmample, this is a very real Scottish Ahmadiyya Imam, a living proof of peace capturing hearts:
2015-01-10_iri_6004749_I1.JPG


Quote:
Ibrahim Noonan was opening the door of the Maryam Mosque in Galway city when a bottle smashed off the wall, narrowly missing him. Noonan - the Imam, or leader, of the newly opened mosque close to Ballybrit Racecourse - turned to find a man standing there looking for confrontation.
I walked up to him and asked him why he had thrown the bottle," he says, recalling the incident that took place not long after the mosque opened last September. "He was taking aback when he heard my Irish accent and after five minutes of talking, he apologised. I told him if he had a problem with Muslims he was welcome to come into the Mosque and get his feelings off his chest and not resort to throwing bottles."

Luckily for the Waterford cleric who converted to Islam from Catholicism at 23, such displays of anti-Muslim feeling are rare in Ireland, but he still has to contend with verbal abuse on a regular basis.
http://www.independent.ie/world-new...r-now-and-a-tidal-wave-of-abuse-30893157.html
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I think you just reinforced my claim, Dawud.
Ahmadi Muslims have a different understanding about their authority figures, certainly.
But that is only truly significant for those who deal directly with the matter. It is still a religion centered on authority figures, tradition, God and the Quran.
What does one understand from " authority figures" and what is bad about it? Please elaborate.
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
LuisDantas said:
I think you just reinforced my claim, Dawud.
Ahmadi Muslims have a different understanding about their authority figures, certainly.
But that is only truly significant for those who deal directly with the matter. It is still a religion centered on authority figures, tradition, God and the Quran.
paarsurrey said:
What does one understand from " authority figures" and what is bad about it? Please elaborate.
Regards
In this context, I mean people who encourage people to accept a ready-made interpretation of religious doctrine.
Sorry, I don't get one exactly. Please express fully.
Regards
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
@paarsurrey

The way I see it, except perhaps for Judaism, the whole family of Abrahamic faiths is misguided because its shares a particularly disfunctional conception of how a religion is supposed to work. Christianity, Islam (including Ahmadis), the Bahai Faith and a few offshots.

Putting belief in a creator and sole God in an almost literal altar and working one's way from there in order to create a structure that gives you certainty, values and reference... it is not only strange, it is bound not to give good results.

Religion is indeed supposed to give one purpose, a degree of certainty and to teach about moral virtue and how to attain it. But making all of those worthy goals rely on a belief in God in the Abrahamic mold ends up putting one in very hazardous situations. It breeds unnecessary mistrust and widespread fear.

I am sorry to see so many people letting go of good opportunities to develop religious wisdom because they are much too busy hoping to convince each other about which scriptures, how many Gods, which understandings of its will, and which prophets should be disregarded because they are not "true" (and building their own equally wasteful defenses against similar arguing from others).

By insisting that God must be the source as opposed to a side-effect of religion, you end up causing a lot of misdirection for yourselves and a lot of trouble for all others. And because it is so widespread, it has become a real concern.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
@paarsurrey
  1. The way I see it, except perhaps for Judaism, the whole family of Abrahamic faiths is misguided because its shares a particularly disfunctional conception of how a religion is supposed to work. Christianity, Islam (including Ahmadis), the Bahai Faith and a few offshots.
  2. Putting belief in a creator and sole God in an almost literal altar and working one's way from there in order to create a structure that gives you certainty, values and reference... it is not only strange, it is bound not to give good results.
  3. Religion is indeed supposed to give one purpose, a degree of certainty and to teach about moral virtue and how to attain it. But making all of those worthy goals rely on a belief in God in the Abrahamic mold ends up putting one in very hazardous situations. It breeds unnecessary mistrust and widespread fear.
  4. I am sorry to see so many people letting go of good opportunities to develop religious wisdom because they are much too busy hoping to convince each other about which scriptures, how many Gods, which understandings of its will, and which prophets should be disregarded because they are not "true" (and building their own equally wasteful defenses against similar arguing from others).
  5. By insisting that God must be the source as opposed to a side-effect of religion, you end up causing a lot of misdirection for yourselves and a lot of trouble for all others. And because it is so widespread, it has become a real concern.
Thanks for explaining one's viewpoint.
From one's above points, I would like to discuss the first two first. Please forget about the term Abrahamic religions, and just take Ahmadiyya Islam. How does one think that a religion is supposed to work and on what basis?
How does belief in G-d (point-2) interfere with the the above .
Please express yourself fully.

Regards
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Thanks for explaining one's viewpoint.
From one's above points, I would like to discuss the first two first. Please forget about the term Abrahamic religions, and just take Ahmadiyya Islam. How does one think that a religion is supposed to work and on what basis?
Religions are human tools for the human benefit. They are difficult to delimit and that is perhaps a good thing.

Their most frequent aspects, which are expected to overlap with each other often, include:

- artistic and perhaps supra-artistic inspiration

- establishment, spread and refinement of a living body of doctrine (which usually acquires a textual aspect which is unavoidably inferior to the living doctrine proper)

- acknowledgement and feedback for people on an individual basis (for one of the main tensions that religion aims to solve is the eternal conflict between the need to belong to a greater whole and the need to be one's own person, fully realized)

- reflections on the nature and characteristics of moral virtues and their encouragement and consequences

- establishment of some basis for productive mutual understanding, including the development of common languages and concepts (which, as with any useful concepts, can and will change as time passes)


How does belief in G-d (point-2) interfere with the the above .
Belief in God is something that some people can't avoid, therefore it must be accepted and worked with.

But it is just too personal and too vague to be used as the core of a religion. Of a specific person's religious practice, if he or she has such an inclination, sure. But it is dangerous to give it interpersonal meaning. That just doesn't work, and leads to undue peer pressure, mystification and general disconnect from reality.

At its best, god-beliefs can be a wonderful tool for certain people to draw inspiration from and to use in their expression. But for others it is downright unhealthy. Still others such as myself are simply unable to even pretend to have an use for the idea.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Religions are human tools for the human benefit. They are difficult to delimit and that is perhaps a good thing.
Their most frequent aspects, which are expected to overlap with each other often, include:
- artistic and perhaps supra-artistic inspiration
- establishment, spread and refinement of a living body of doctrine (which usually acquires a textual aspect which is unavoidably inferior to the living doctrine proper)
- acknowledgement and feedback for people on an individual basis (for one of the main tensions that religion aims to solve is the eternal conflict between the need to belong to a greater whole and the need to be one's own person, fully realized)
- reflections on the nature and characteristics of moral virtues and their encouragement and consequences
- establishment of some basis for productive mutual understanding, including the development of common languages and concepts (which, as with any useful concepts, can and will change as time passes)
Belief in God is something that some people can't avoid, therefore it must be accepted and worked with.
But it is just too personal and too vague to be used as the core of a religion. Of a specific person's religious practice, if he or she has such an inclination, sure. But it is dangerous to give it interpersonal meaning. That just doesn't work, and leads to undue peer pressure, mystification and general disconnect from reality.
At its best, god-beliefs can be a wonderful tool for certain people to draw inspiration from and to use in their expression. But for others it is downright unhealthy. Still others such as myself are simply unable to even pretend to have an use for the idea.
That definitely are not in the core of the Ahmadiyya* true Islam .They might be, some of them, in the paraphernalia.
*Muhammad had another name Ahmad, and it is after his later name that we call ourselves Ahmadiyya:
"The name which is appropriate for this Movement and which we prefer for ourselves is Muslims of the Ahmadiyya sect. We have chosen this name because the Holy Prophet, peace be on him, had two names, Muhammad and Ahmad; Muhammad was his name of glory and Ahmad was his name of beauty . . . God so arranged the life of the Holy Prophet, peace be on him, that his Meccan life was a manifestation of his name Ahmad and the Muslims were taught patience and endurance. In his life in Medina, his name Muhammad was manifested, and God in His wisdom decided to chastise his enemies. But there was a prophecy that the name Ahmad would be manifested again in the latter days and that a person would appear through whom the qualities of beauty, which characterize Ahmad, would be manifested, and all fighting would come to an end. For this reason it has been considered appropriate that the name of this sect should be Ahmadiyya sect, so that everyone hearing this name should realize that this sect has come into being for the spread of peace and security and that it would have nothing to do with war and fighting."
Louis J. Hammann Ph.D.Professor of Religion,Gettysburg College.
https://www.alislam.org/introduction/intro-louis-hammann.html
Regards
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I was born in an Ahmadi family. Yes, I am an Ahmadi Muslim not only by birth but also by conviction. One may say that I am a born again in my faith and it happened at hands of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. I never saw him but reading his books have done that. He instils love of Allah, Muhammad, Quran with signs, reasons as reason could take one to, and believing Word of Revelation that takes one beyond all that.

Regards

Good day paarsurrey. I have read that the Ahmadi's renounce all forms of violence. With that being said (and please correct me if I'm wrong), Are the Ahmadi's considered pacifist?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Good day paarsurrey. I have read that the Ahmadi's renounce all forms of violence. With that being said (and please correct me if I'm wrong), Are the Ahmadi's considered pacifist?
Please tell me your understanding of the word "pacifist", not from a lexicon.
We respect every human being of whatever race,color or religion one may be. It is one's right to have one's opinion or whatever religion. We don't have to judge anybody. G-d will judge everybody in the hereafter, we can only present our sincere opinion/message with reason/signs peaceful dialogue and we leave on others whether to accept them or to deny them. I don't know exactly if it falls under your understanding of the "pacifist" or not. We are steadfast on our belief"
[41:31] As for those who say, ‘Our Lord is Allah,’ and then remain steadfast, the angels descend on them, saying: ‘Fear ye not, nor grieve; and rejoice in the Garden that you were promised.
[41:32] ‘We are your friends in this life and in the Hereafter. Therein you will have all that your souls will desire, and therein you will have all that you will ask for —
[41:33] ‘An entertainment from the Most Forgiving, the Merciful.’
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=41&verse=30
Regards
 
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