Why did God create mortal bodies?

[George-ananda]

Sure, I miss the physical form but it would be a lot easier for me of I knew for a fact that they were in a spirit realm.
I know you know a lot about such things so I respect your opinion....

Incidentally, my former naturopath (now retired) was aghast when I told her what Abdu'l-Baha said about the animal spirit being "extinguished." She said matter can never be extinguished. I do not believe that he was qualified to be venturing out into scientific subjects, but of course most Baha'is believe him.

My veterinarian also believes that animals continue to exist in the spirit realm, she sais there is no question.

Well, in my current understanding cats that have experienced close human contact can remain in their astral body forms for a period of time visiting their familiar things. I am on other forums and the number of cat/dog ghosts stories are overwhelming. They may even stay in their astral form until their master passes to greet them. Heard a hundred stories.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Why did God create mortal bodies?
We have already now too many people on the earth, just imagine all were immortal. Seems to me a Master Plan.

First, God created the invisible heavenly angelic realm .
Then, God expanded His creation business to include a physical earthly realm of existence.
Remember: Adam was Not placed here for a visit, nor was Earth a stepping stone to another realm of existence.
Mortal Adam was offered everlasting life on Earth. Angels were offered everlasting life in Heaven.
As some mortal angels broke God's Law so did mortal Adam and Eve.
Originally Adam and Eve and descendants were to populate the Earth. Not over-populate Earth - Genesis 1:28
In other words, procreation would cease when Earth was populated.
So, by the end of Jesus' coming 1,000-year reign over Earth, then Earth will be populated but Not over populated.
As far as mortal sinner Satan and his demonic angels they will be destroyed by Jesus - Hebrews 2:14 B.
Whether heavenly or earthly, All the wicked will be: destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you allowing yourself to grieve now? You have experienced a great loss. You've stated your husband doesn't process things in a similar manner. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong if your grief is more outward than his. What will help the pain? Would you like to talk about your cat? Some people like to share the memories they have of the one they've lost.

Thanks. I used to grieve more, right away and for a long time afterwards, but I have had to shut my feelings down in order to survive; and the way I do that is to stay busy, think about something else, and by reading and writing on the forum.

I am going to be thinking of her because we brought her into this world as a kitten about 14 years ago, so she is everywhere. We still have her father, he is our oldest cat, about 19 now, and he has been in kidney failure for about four years now; but because of all the treatments he has been getting, kidney supplements and subdural fluids, he is holding steady. He is amazing. He was a kitten when our Titu was dying 19 years ago and he was at her side comforting her, and likewise he was sitting by his daughter who just passed, when he had never sat next to her before. Don't tell me animals don't have empathy and feelings. I hate religious people who say this, as of only humans have any value.

No, it does not help to talk about her, it only makes me feel worse. What helps is staying busy and talking about my feelings about the cats and God as I did on this thread. We have other cats that are ill so I have to focus on them. Two have kidney disease, but the sister of the one we just lost has something wrong with her back legs and it has been going on for a while now, but we could not deal with that because the three with kidney disease took precedence. It is hard to get a vet appointment, but we have an appointment set up for her now in two weeks. We have a great vet I totally trust and I do not want to see another vet although I would if it was an emergency. That little cat is less than four pounds, as she was a mini-cat from birth since both parents were small.

It's a long story, but a short answer is I was lead into it from a life of having too many questions, and a few practical jokes on the part of Sri Krishna. How did you find your faith, and how has it shaped your belief in God?

I did not have any questions and I was not even searching for God or a religion when I stumbled upon the Baha'i Faith almost 50 years ago now, i have written my story up several times, once to a Baha'i, once to a Christian, and once to Muslim. Here is the link to the post where I told it to the Muslim on this thread: Proof of Islam?

You can tell me your story if and when you ever want to.

I can see why you'd feel angry at God, if your faith says he should be your support, and all you feel is beaten by him. I'd be angry, too.

Thanks for understanding. Yes, I feel beaten down by God. Nobody else seems to understand, no doubt because they can only see it from their perspective of who God is and they cannot imagine how I might feel or why I might feel that way.

Could it be now is not the best time to deal with God, and its better to deal with your loss instead? Have you any support to turn to?

You are right, this is not the best time to deal with God. The only support I have is my husband and this forum, but my husband does not understand how I feel so it does not help to talk to him. He is also a Baha'i but he relates to God a lot differently than I do, so we argue about that and it goes from bad to worse.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, in my current understanding cats that have experienced close human contact can remain in their astral body forms for a period of time visiting their familiar things. I am on other forums and the number of cat/dog ghosts stories are overwhelming. They may even stay in their astral form until their master passes to greet them. Heard a hundred stories.

Thanks, I would not mind hearing some of those stories, it might really help. I am not a naysayer type of Baha'i.
What forum is this? I am interested in anything to do with the spiritual world.

What do you mean by astral form?

 

[George-ananda]

What do you mean by astral form?

We not only have a physical body but also an interpenetrating astral/mental body. At death the astral body separates from the physical body and experiences what we call the afterlife state. Humans and cats have this.

 

[JustGeorge]

Thanks. I used to grieve more, right away and for a long time afterwards, but I have had to shut my feelings down in order to survive; and the way I do that is to stay busy, think about something else, and by reading and writing on the forum.

I am going to be thinking of her because we brought her into this world as a kitten about 14 years ago, so she is everywhere. We still have her father, he is our oldest cat, about 19 now, and he has been in kidney failure for about four years now; but because of all the treatments he has been getting, kidney supplements and subdural fluids, he is holding steady. He is amazing. He was a kitten when our Titu was dying 19 years ago and he was at her side comforting her, and likewise he was sitting by his daughter who just passed, when he had never sat next to her before. Don't tell me animals don't have empathy and feelings. I hate religious people who say this, as of only humans have any value.

Cats have so much awareness. Back before I had a 'herd', I had Lucky, my all black cat(still have him, he's 9). One day, Helen, a stray, followed me home during a rainstorm. We took her in, of course. Me, in my ignorance, assumed since Lucky was so young, we were in no danger of dealing with a litter of kittens...wrong. Helen had a litter of beautiful kittens, and, after he got over his shock, Lucky got in the nest and helped her care for them. He cleaned, and snuggled, and made sure they didn't venture away. We had gotten him fixed so it wouldn't happen again(we struggled financially, and it was cheaper to fix a male), but Helen broke out a panel of the air conditioning unit and got outside again. It became apparent pregnant again from her venture. Another litter was born. Lucky got in the nest, was about to start his 'child care' again, and just stopped and examined those kittens. His ears went back, he looked at me, he looked at them, and he ran away. "These kittens are white! I'm black!" You could almost hear him say it. He hated Helen from then on. I believe he felt she had been unfaithful... Thankfully he never took it out on the kittens... We still have one from that litter, and they're good friends.

I had a cat I grew up with that I'd let my pet mice crawl all over. She knew she wasn't supposed to bother them... Once, one got out of its cage, and she caught it and brought it back, completely unharmed. If cats can fight their instincts like that, of course they have thoughts and feelings... I hate it when people act like they're just blobs, too.

No, it does not help to talk about her, it only makes me feel worse. What helps is staying busy and talking about my feelings about the cats and God as I did on this thread. We have other cats that are ill so I have to focus on them. Two have kidney disease, but the sister of the one we just lost has something wrong with her back legs and it has been going on for a while now, but we could not deal with that because the three with kidney disease took precedence. It is hard to get a vet appointment, but we have an appointment set up for her now in two weeks. We have a great vet I totally trust and I do not want to see another vet although I would if it was an emergency. That little cat is less than four pounds, as she was a mini-cat from birth since both parents were small.

Your cats are lucky to have you. I can see you care very much for them, and are providing them with good care. We had a illness rip through here over the last two weeks. In all my years of cat ownership, I never saw anything like it. The vet ruled it a virus(upper respiratory, I think). Everyone survived, but one had to be force fed for almost a week; we thought we'd lose him for sure. I think even the vet was thinking he wouldn't last, but didn't want to say so. They put them on prednisilone, but it didn't do much. I'm just happy everyone is healthy again. And I hope we never see anything like that again...

Thanks for understanding. Yes, I feel beaten down by God. Nobody else seems to understand, no doubt because they can only see it from their perspective of who God is and they cannot imagine how I might feel or why I might feel that way.

You are right, this is not the best time to deal with God. The only support I have is my husband and this forum, but my husband does not understand how I feel so it does not help to talk to him. He is also a Baha'i but he relates to God a lot differently than I do, so we argue about that and it goes from bad to worse.

After all my kitties survived that nasty bug, I wasn't expecting my outdoor kitty to die. I didn't see it coming at all; she was born a feral, in our garage. It took us a long time to get her to trust us, but no matter what we did, she was terrified of the house. We got her brothers in, but not her. But, she was our buddy. She went on walks with us, and she'd greet us when we came home. She was four. Too young.

For me right now, I have just been letting myself be sad, and angry. My anger has been more directed at the neighborhood(long story), and I've been more sad with God. In my own religious views, Beegee(the cat's name) was one manifestation of the divine soul, and she'll be reborn, as she has her own path to work out. That doesn't mean I won't miss her. I believe she exists still, even if she is not laying on my front porch. In the Gita, Krishna says to Arjuna, "you were never born, and you will never die". This goes for kitties, too. All beings are the same, consisting of the same life force, I believe. The form changes, and dies, but the essence goes on forever(in my own views).

I am glad you have forums, then, as they are helping you through this. I hope you are able to find some healing soon. Caring for kitties takes a lot of strength.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

You seem to judge and hate reality itself. In my experience, this is only going to make things worse.
Because in that state people refuse to adjust their expectations. They remain stuck in the part that things aren't fair. This unfairness becomes their spiritual food, corrupting their souls and causing them to be ruled by emotions and thoughts that bring them down. What works for me is that when I'm having a bad time, I simply accept that I'm having a bad time and giving myself the space to feel bad instead of trying or wishing to get it fixed instantly. It may sound twisted and maybe it's just my personality, but whenever I'm in that state, when I try I can still find some sort of beauty in it, making it easier for me go through it. It's like a novel; what is a good story without any drama?

Other than this, I don't know what else I can say to get you out of that pit...

 

[Trailblazer]

We not only have a physical body but also an interpenetrating astral/mental body. At death the astral body separates from the physical body and experiences what we call the afterlife state. Humans and cats have this.

I guess that would be what Baha'is refer to as the spiritual body that the soul inhabits after physical death.

I agree with what Swedenborg said about what happens when we die:

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

 

[Samantha Rinne]

I am going to lay my cards right on the table. I am really angry at God because He created humans and animals with mortal bodies such that they will die. Why did God have to create humans and animals this way? If I think about it for very long I hate God for what He did, but what other choices did He have? I don’t know because I am not God, but is God is All-Knowing and All-Powerful so I tend to think it did not have to be this way. The more I type the angrier I become.

Obviously, God created it this way for a reason, so according to believers I am just supposed to accept that there was a reason and not complain, but I am going to complain because death has caused undue suffering for so many people, because there is nothing worse than losing a loved one, nothing.

I know that some Christians believe it was not supposed to be this way at least for humans, until Adam and Eve sinned, but I do not believe that bodies ever could have lived forever because they were not created to me immortal, so living forever in a physical body is absurd to me. But what is the other option? Death.

Now, let’s try to pretend that people are not afraid of dying.

If that is true, why all the fear of Covid-19, why the masks and social distancing, closing schools and businesses and basically shutting down economies all over the world? Let’s get real folks; people are terrified of death, even though most people believe in an afterlife. Most people enjoy life and they do not want to die, no matter how great heaven might be.

When Covid-19 first hit, I was not afraid at all, and I wondered why people were so fearful. I was never afraid because I am not afraid of my own death, since I have a pretty good idea where I am headed and I know it is not the end of me, but rather just a new beginning in another world, a world that is much better than this hellhole.

I am going to lay some more cards on the table. I have lost all my loved ones to death, first my father, then my sister and then my mother. I think my brother is still alive but I never talk to him anymore. I never had any children so all I have left is my husband, and he is 10 years older than me so he will probably die before I die. But that does not bother me as much as when my cats die because I know where my husband is going and I know I will see him again. I do not know where my cats are going, if anywhere, and I do not know if I will ever see my cats again because that was never revealed in any scriptures. Some people think it is in scriptures that animals have no spirit that lives on so they expire at death but that is just their interpretation.

I have lost so many cats in the last 23 years I have lost track of the number, but it is probably more than 30. If you want to you can blame me for having so many cats, but I already know I risk loss by having so many cats, I am not an idiot. So go ahead and blame me, I cannot feel much worse than I already feel. I know I run the risk of criticism by posting this, but it finally came down to this because I cannot go on like this anymore, feeling completely alone.

My husband is the only one who knows our situation and how I suffer and how it has nearly destroyed me so many times. But he does not really understand how I feel because he is very different when it comes to death and loss. He never even got sad or cried when either of his parents died, it was just like any other day; his only sister died about a week ago and he never got sad or cried. It is the same way when a cat dies. He is like a stone. I finally had to get a counselor again after five years of not having one, because it got so bad last January.

I am not going to go into any details about what happened to the cats or what has happened more recently because it is just too horrible, unimaginable. I will sometimes talk about it in private but only with people who want to know, people I trust. Unfortunately, nice as she is, by new counselor is not much help to me, but it is better than having nobody to talk to, even though I can only talk on the phone now because of Covid-19 restrictions and I cannot get regular appointments.

But where the hell is God when you need Him? Nowhere. The only help I have ever gotten is from kind and compassionate people, some of whom are on this forum. God is nowhere to be found. Sorry, I am not buying off on that God is working through these people because the people deserve the credit, not God. Interestingly, most of these kind and compassionate people have been atheists.

Now is the time for all the believers to blame me for not having God at my side because I am “shutting God out,” as if they could ever know that is what I am doing. Besides, if God is really All-Powerful and All-Loving, God could get in even if I am shutting Him out.

I rest my case.

You, like many religious people (I assume?) have had your understanding warped by secular people. They are the ones you should blame, not God. In fact, you should see them as enemies of your living a hapoy and productive life. You cannot be killed, but you can be oppressed or imprisoned. But you know, life is short, and if someone succeeds in making you angry or afraid, they get to own how you spend your time. Shrug that off too. But why do I say these are the ones to blame? Because they have given you a faulty understanding of the mind-body formula.

Over and over, through most schools, you are told there is no soul and your mind is inside your body. Then religion teaches you something different but because they typically one day a week to work on you, and you haven't personally connected with your religion, twelve or more years of education makes you swallow this idea of a physical body being all there is.

But there isn't. There are theories of soul. The Christian, the Buddhist, the Egyptian, etc. Here's mine.

There are four layers of self (though one barely counts, since it has barely any presence) which are:

Body
Spirit
-------------------------------
Soul
-------------------------------
Name

You may ask, "Why the dividers?" Well it's because Body and Spirit are directly connected, the rest are not. Theoretically, you could rig this up differently. It doesn't matter, I'll tell you general theory versus converting you to a specific religion. Here's a Christian version of this, if you want that one. The Egyptian one involves shadows and such. Also the video below sucks, I would see him as having mixed up Spirit and Soul.

The Body is something most of us assume we understand, but in actual fact, we don't understand it at all, nor the Spirit. Nor any of it really.

In the beginning, there was One Soul. This One Soul split into the Souls we know of today. This is called by all sorts of names in all sorts of religions but to keep ideas straight, we're gonna just leave it at that, and let you believe whatever you want about God, Afterlife, etc. Anyway, this event of making multiple Souls was known as the creation of the universe. Now, we can argue whether or not things like the sun, rocks, or water have souls (some faiths like Shinto believe they do, other faiths put them and/or animals in a separate category) but for the sake of this discussion, living things (trees, deer, and humans, for instance) have Souls while rocks, rivers, and the sun do not. A Soul, for the purposes of this idea (you may have pet theory but this is my class):

1. Define that which actually exists, is living, and is real
2. Is immortal (cannot be destroyed by anything in the physical world)
3. Are glowing orbs of light (what God means by "let there be light")
4. Have no memories, form, or sense of self without assistance
5. May be able to be reshaped by a strong sense of self into celestial body

Let's talk about that last one. This would be what Christians call being saved, Buddhists call nirvana, Hindus call moksha, etc. This is a letting go of a temporary mortal Body in order to imprint life experiences to shape a soul body. However, this typically doesn't happen because humans build a mortal body, the Body. This Body sees the physical world (rocks and such) as real. If you you encounter something that can hurt you physically, like getting gored by a deer, your Soul is again immortal but more importantly these are two Bodies colliding.

The Body is not what you think of as a body. The Body is the physical world built around your Soul. If we were to remove all the excess noise, the only thing real thing you would see is lights floating around, much like will o' wisps. All the scenery is manifested by your brain and your eyes. It isn't real. Coronavirus may real in the physical sense, but we need to let go of that soon. Because when we die, if all we have is fear, life is living hell in the meantime. Months and years of isolation? Thanks but I'd rather die, actually. You might not, and that's your lookout. But the physical world can supply you with things (houses, masks, whatever) to make you feel safe. But that, like the disease itself, is not real. It cannot save you, because what is really killing you is your fear. Or in my case, my depression and isolation. I probably won't last another few years of not being able to touch others or talk to people besides immediate family. This heads into Spirit though, so let's talk about that next.

Spirit is what most people call the mind. But it's more than that, and no it's not the brain. The brain is just an organ. In a computer, there is the CPU, RAM, and the hard drive, and these are totally different. The Spirit is the astral body, and is usually directly tethered to the Body. It also has a chakra system based on the emotions and experiences of life as a Body. The two are firmly connected, so when an earthquake hits, your Body gets shaken as the earth moves under your feet, but you may also be emotionally shaken or traumatized by the event. Yes, you may die if someone touches you wrong and gets you sick. But your Body will not last forever. Sickness, Age, and Death are facts of life. Being afraid of death puts you in denial of this, and traps you in an unsatisfactory life. Do you want to get sick, and possibly die? Probably not. Do you want to live unable to hug another person, kiss another person, see a friend you've been close to for years? If the answer is yes, I will *****-slap you. And then you'll get sick anyway! I've lived a majority of my life taking few risks. I'm timid IRL, and I have most of my nerve online. I can legit say that my life didn't change much. And this depresses the hell out of me.

Name is distinct from all of these, in that it has no body. In fact, I'm not sure where to fit this. A Name is a sense of self, of one's memories. A notion if "me"-ness. To most people though, a Name is just a costume, like the Body, that gets discarded or burned you die. However, a strong Name preserves memories of lives gone by. This is where past lives come into play, and it is what merges to form the celestial body. The Name and Soul become one, and both become immortal.

Body is not all there, nor should it be. You're blaming the wrong person. You should blame your jailors for imprisoning you in this nonsense.

 

[George-ananda]

I guess that would be what Baha'is refer to as the spiritual body that the soul inhabits after physical death.

I agree with what Swedenborg said about what happens when we die:

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Swedenborg says it great!

 

[Trailblazer]

You seem to judge and hate reality itself. In my experience, this is only going to make things worse.

That is true. I do not like the reality of death. I also do not like the reality of the physical world. I never really have liked the material world, except for nature and animals.

You are right, fighting against reality only makes matters worse.
As for the reality of God, nobody can really know that so when religious people pin all these attributes on God and expect me to also believe what they do, and I don't, it only makes me feel worse, because I feel like a bad person.

Because in that state people refuse to adjust their expectations. They remain stuck in the part that things aren't fair. This unfairness becomes their spiritual food, corrupting their souls and causing them to be ruled by emotions and thoughts that bring them down.

You really hot the nail on the head. When I have to deal with what I perceive as unfairness in addition to my grief and loss it just compounds my grief and depression, makes it doubly worse.

What works for me is that when I'm having a bad time, I simply accept that I'm having a bad time and giving myself the space to feel bad instead of trying or wishing to get it fixed instantly. It may sound twisted and maybe it's just my personality, but whenever I'm in that state, when I try I can still find some sort of beauty in it, making it easier for me go through it. It's like a novel; what is a good story without any drama?

I am not looking to resolve it instantly, I know it is an ongoing process, but I tend to want to stay busy because I do not do well when not busy. But what I need to do is do something besides thinking abut what is wrong with God and how I relate to God because that only makes me feel worse.

I do not think I will be able to see beauty in death, but I can see the beauty in the cats I still have left and if I focus on them I can at least feel I am doing something worthwhile and I can keep busy.

Other than this, I don't know what else I can say to get you out of that pit...

You have already helped me enough but if you can think of anything else don't hesitate. I am not really in as bad a pit as I have been in the past when I have had these cat losses but I feel kind of guilty because I do not feel worse than I do because deep down I think I deserve to suffer because it was all my fault even though I was told it was not my fault.

 

[blü 2]

I am going to lay my cards right on the table. I am really angry at God because He created humans and animals with mortal bodies such that they will die. Why did God have to create humans and animals this way? If I think about it for very long I hate God for what He did, but what other choices did He have? I don’t know because I am not God, but is God is All-Knowing and All-Powerful so I tend to think it did not have to be this way. The more I type the angrier I become.

Obviously, God created it this way for a reason, so according to believers I am just supposed to accept that there was a reason and not complain, but I am going to complain because death has caused undue suffering for so many people, because there is nothing worse than losing a loved one, nothing.

I know that some Christians believe it was not supposed to be this way at least for humans, until Adam and Eve sinned, but I do not believe that bodies ever could have lived forever because they were not created to me immortal, so living forever in a physical body is absurd to me. But what is the other option? Death.

Now, let’s try to pretend that people are not afraid of dying.

If that is true, why all the fear of Covid-19, why the masks and social distancing, closing schools and businesses and basically shutting down economies all over the world? Let’s get real folks; people are terrified of death, even though most people believe in an afterlife. Most people enjoy life and they do not want to die, no matter how great heaven might be.

When Covid-19 first hit, I was not afraid at all, and I wondered why people were so fearful. I was never afraid because I am not afraid of my own death, since I have a pretty good idea where I am headed and I know it is not the end of me, but rather just a new beginning in another world, a world that is much better than this hellhole.

I am going to lay some more cards on the table. I have lost all my loved ones to death, first my father, then my sister and then my mother. I think my brother is still alive but I never talk to him anymore. I never had any children so all I have left is my husband, and he is 10 years older than me so he will probably die before I die. But that does not bother me as much as when my cats die because I know where my husband is going and I know I will see him again. I do not know where my cats are going, if anywhere, and I do not know if I will ever see my cats again because that was never revealed in any scriptures. Some people think it is in scriptures that animals have no spirit that lives on so they expire at death but that is just their interpretation.

I have lost so many cats in the last 23 years I have lost track of the number, but it is probably more than 30. If you want to you can blame me for having so many cats, but I already know I risk loss by having so many cats, I am not an idiot. So go ahead and blame me, I cannot feel much worse than I already feel. I know I run the risk of criticism by posting this, but it finally came down to this because I cannot go on like this anymore, feeling completely alone.

My husband is the only one who knows our situation and how I suffer and how it has nearly destroyed me so many times. But he does not really understand how I feel because he is very different when it comes to death and loss. He never even got sad or cried when either of his parents died, it was just like any other day; his only sister died about a week ago and he never got sad or cried. It is the same way when a cat dies. He is like a stone. I finally had to get a counselor again after five years of not having one, because it got so bad last January.

I am not going to go into any details about what happened to the cats or what has happened more recently because it is just too horrible, unimaginable. I will sometimes talk about it in private but only with people who want to know, people I trust. Unfortunately, nice as she is, by new counselor is not much help to me, but it is better than having nobody to talk to, even though I can only talk on the phone now because of Covid-19 restrictions and I cannot get regular appointments.

But where the hell is God when you need Him? Nowhere. The only help I have ever gotten is from kind and compassionate people, some of whom are on this forum. God is nowhere to be found. Sorry, I am not buying off on that God is working through these people because the people deserve the credit, not God. Interestingly, most of these kind and compassionate people have been atheists.

Now is the time for all the believers to blame me for not having God at my side because I am “shutting God out,” as if they could ever know that is what I am doing. Besides, if God is really All-Powerful and All-Loving, God could get in even if I am shutting Him out.

I rest my case.

Well if there's a God [he] chose evolution as [his] tool, and evolution requires successive generations, which means the present ones have to keep getting out of the way of the future ones. (There's also the point that you can't have animals grow from small to large without the death of selected cells along the way.)

But perhaps from your PoV, Tennyson put it best in his Morte d'Arthur, where the wounded, implicitly dying, king after the great final battle is about to be taken to Avalon, and says to the last of his knights ─

“ The old order changeth, yielding place to new,
And God fulfils Himself in many ways,
Lest one good custom should corrupt the world."​

 

[Trailblazer]

Well if there's a God [he] chose evolution as [his] tool, and evolution requires successive generations, which means the present ones have to keep getting out of the way of the future ones. (There's also the point that you can't have animals grow from small to large without the death of selected cells along the way.)

Thanks, I never even thought of the angle of evolution, but of course humans and animals have to die so more can be born. I am just sad and pissed off that it has to be this way.

But there would still be death even if there was no God, although there would be nobody to blame, so it would be easier on me because it is no fun blaming God, and then on top of that the other believers criticize me for blaming God. It's just ugly all the way around.

 

[chinu]

But where the hell is God when you need Him? Nowhere. The only help I have ever gotten is from kind and compassionate people, some of whom are on this forum. God is nowhere to be found. Sorry, I am not buying off on that God is working through these people because the people deserve the credit, not God. Interestingly, most of these kind and compassionate people have been atheists.

There was a flood in the village. People were standing on the roofs of their house. And a life boat came to save one man who think himself a big theist.

That theist refused to sit on the boat saying; Am theist, I need NOT your help because God will save me.

But, after some another boat came to save him. He said the same and refused to sit on the boat.

Finally another boat came third time to save his life. But, still he refused by saying the same words. His house sinks in the water and he died.

Next moment he was standing in front of God. He complained God; where was you ? why don’t you came to save me ?

Said God; Three time I send boat for you to save your life, but, you refused. What’s my fault ?

How God helps, perhaps you learn this from this short story.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

How can they die and why would they die, if they are not physical?

Remember the Bible says Satan & his angels will be “thrown into the Lake of Fire”? That is the “second death, the Lake of Fire.”

So, death only comes to spirit creatures, when they rebel, i.e., sin.
But that’s also why A & E died...due to their rebellion. Otherwise, they never would have died.

Being “made in God’s image,” they were designed to live forever, different from the animals.

 

[Trailblazer]

Remember the Bible says Satan & his angels will be “thrown into the Lake of Fire”? That is the “second death, the Lake of Fire.”

So, death only comes to spirit creatures, when they rebel, i.e., sin.
But that’s also why A & E died...due to their rebellion. Otherwise, they never would have died.

Being “made in God’s image,” they were designed to live forever, different from the animals.

Okay, thanks for explaining your beliefs. My beliefs are different but I do not want that to cause any disharmony.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

There was a flood in the village. People were standing on the roofs of their house. And a life boat came to save one man who think himself a big theist.

That theist refused to sit on the boat saying; Am theist, I need NOT your help because God will save me.

But, after some another boat came to save him. He said the same and refused to sit on the boat.

Finally another boat came third time to save his life. But, still he refused by saying the same words. His house sinks in the water and he died.

Next moment he was standing in front of God. He complained God; where was you ? why don’t you came to save me ?

Said God; Three time I send boat for you to save your life, but, you refused. What’s my fault ?

How God helps, perhaps you learn this from this short story.

Yeah I remember this story. It was told to me as a joke because me and the person telling it didn't believe in God back then.
But for the believer, there is indeed a wise lesson to be found in it.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Mortal humans are here because you can come up with things like neutrality, and that is just how they naturally are.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I am going to lay my cards right on the table. I am really angry at God because He created humans and animals with mortal bodies such that they will die. Why did God have to create humans and animals this way? If I think about it for very long I hate God for what He did, but what other choices did He have? I don’t know because I am not God, but is God is All-Knowing and All-Powerful so I tend to think it did not have to be this way. The more I type the angrier I become.

Obviously, God created it this way for a reason, so according to believers I am just supposed to accept that there was a reason and not complain, but I am going to complain because death has caused undue suffering for so many people, because there is nothing worse than losing a loved one, nothing.

I know that some Christians believe it was not supposed to be this way at least for humans, until Adam and Eve sinned, but I do not believe that bodies ever could have lived forever because they were not created to me immortal, so living forever in a physical body is absurd to me. But what is the other option? Death.

Now, let’s try to pretend that people are not afraid of dying.

If that is true, why all the fear of Covid-19, why the masks and social distancing, closing schools and businesses and basically shutting down economies all over the world? Let’s get real folks; people are terrified of death, even though most people believe in an afterlife. Most people enjoy life and they do not want to die, no matter how great heaven might be.

When Covid-19 first hit, I was not afraid at all, and I wondered why people were so fearful. I was never afraid because I am not afraid of my own death, since I have a pretty good idea where I am headed and I know it is not the end of me, but rather just a new beginning in another world, a world that is much better than this hellhole.

I am going to lay some more cards on the table. I have lost all my loved ones to death, first my father, then my sister and then my mother. I think my brother is still alive but I never talk to him anymore. I never had any children so all I have left is my husband, and he is 10 years older than me so he will probably die before I die. But that does not bother me as much as when my cats die because I know where my husband is going and I know I will see him again. I do not know where my cats are going, if anywhere, and I do not know if I will ever see my cats again because that was never revealed in any scriptures. Some people think it is in scriptures that animals have no spirit that lives on so they expire at death but that is just their interpretation.

I have lost so many cats in the last 23 years I have lost track of the number, but it is probably more than 30. If you want to you can blame me for having so many cats, but I already know I risk loss by having so many cats, I am not an idiot. So go ahead and blame me, I cannot feel much worse than I already feel. I know I run the risk of criticism by posting this, but it finally came down to this because I cannot go on like this anymore, feeling completely alone.

My husband is the only one who knows our situation and how I suffer and how it has nearly destroyed me so many times. But he does not really understand how I feel because he is very different when it comes to death and loss. He never even got sad or cried when either of his parents died, it was just like any other day; his only sister died about a week ago and he never got sad or cried. It is the same way when a cat dies. He is like a stone. I finally had to get a counselor again after five years of not having one, because it got so bad last January.

I am not going to go into any details about what happened to the cats or what has happened more recently because it is just too horrible, unimaginable. I will sometimes talk about it in private but only with people who want to know, people I trust. Unfortunately, nice as she is, by new counselor is not much help to me, but it is better than having nobody to talk to, even though I can only talk on the phone now because of Covid-19 restrictions and I cannot get regular appointments.

But where the hell is God when you need Him? Nowhere. The only help I have ever gotten is from kind and compassionate people, some of whom are on this forum. God is nowhere to be found. Sorry, I am not buying off on that God is working through these people because the people deserve the credit, not God. Interestingly, most of these kind and compassionate people have been atheists.

Now is the time for all the believers to blame me for not having God at my side because I am “shutting God out,” as if they could ever know that is what I am doing. Besides, if God is really All-Powerful and All-Loving, God could get in even if I am shutting Him out.

I rest my case.

Hope you will recover son from your depression @Trailblazer.
Today I think I can not answer fully to your OP but the title of it I can give you an answer to, and I hope that's ok.

Why did God make us live in a physical body? To be able to repay our karmic debt is the very short answer. Because without a physical body we would not be able to feel pain, sorrow, anger, greed, jealousy and so on. And I do not speak of only the human body, all form of life on this planet feel suffering. Life is suffering as Buddhists would say.

So to me it means that at some point in the past, we as spiritual beings did something that lead us to fall one level of wisdom, or morality and so on, until we become so dense with karma that our only option was to be born in to the physical realm of life.

So no it is not God fault we are here, it is not Gods fault we can not get out of it.
Those things lay fully on our self, and the path out of this realm is to cultivate our mind and body to become less and less dense so we can raise in wisdom level again.

Sorry that this does not sound as a helping hand @Trailblazer but I realized that by not beginning with our self, we can not better our life.
I know you are a lot alone and mostly only see your husband, may it be that the seclution has made you your own enemy in seeing what is needed to be done in your life?
I remember when I was living a secluded lifestyle, I burned the candle from both sides, and I could not see that I become my own enemy.
I understand that the pandemic make it impossible to get out to meet people now, but it will not last to long.

But as I said yesterday, you are the one who know what you need in your life, and sometimes we need others then our self to blame for our suffering, God know that, but God isnt the cause of your suffering, the past is.

 

[Trailblazer]

How God helps, perhaps you learn this from this short story.

I do not know HOW God helps but IF God helps, He does so through people, but since I do not see God or talk to God but rather to those people, I give credit to those people and not to God.

Besides, I do not want to give any credit to God because I do not like Him right now.