Why did God create mortal bodies?

[Trailblazer]

I am going to lay my cards right on the table. I am really angry at God because He created humans and animals with mortal bodies such that they will die. Why did God have to create humans and animals this way? If I think about it for very long I hate God for what He did, but what other choices did He have? I don’t know because I am not God, but is God is All-Knowing and All-Powerful so I tend to think it did not have to be this way. The more I type the angrier I become.

Obviously, God created it this way for a reason, so according to believers I am just supposed to accept that there was a reason and not complain, but I am going to complain because death has caused undue suffering for so many people, because there is nothing worse than losing a loved one, nothing.

I know that some Christians believe it was not supposed to be this way at least for humans, until Adam and Eve sinned, but I do not believe that bodies ever could have lived forever because they were not created to me immortal, so living forever in a physical body is absurd to me. But what is the other option? Death.

Now, let’s try to pretend that people are not afraid of dying.

If that is true, why all the fear of Covid-19, why the masks and social distancing, closing schools and businesses and basically shutting down economies all over the world? Let’s get real folks; people are terrified of death, even though most people believe in an afterlife. Most people enjoy life and they do not want to die, no matter how great heaven might be.

When Covid-19 first hit, I was not afraid at all, and I wondered why people were so fearful. I was never afraid because I am not afraid of my own death, since I have a pretty good idea where I am headed and I know it is not the end of me, but rather just a new beginning in another world, a world that is much better than this hellhole.

I am going to lay some more cards on the table. I have lost all my loved ones to death, first my father, then my sister and then my mother. I think my brother is still alive but I never talk to him anymore. I never had any children so all I have left is my husband, and he is 10 years older than me so he will probably die before I die. But that does not bother me as much as when my cats die because I know where my husband is going and I know I will see him again. I do not know where my cats are going, if anywhere, and I do not know if I will ever see my cats again because that was never revealed in any scriptures. Some people think it is in scriptures that animals have no spirit that lives on so they expire at death but that is just their interpretation.

I have lost so many cats in the last 23 years I have lost track of the number, but it is probably more than 30. If you want to you can blame me for having so many cats, but I already know I risk loss by having so many cats, I am not an idiot. So go ahead and blame me, I cannot feel much worse than I already feel. I know I run the risk of criticism by posting this, but it finally came down to this because I cannot go on like this anymore, feeling completely alone.

My husband is the only one who knows our situation and how I suffer and how it has nearly destroyed me so many times. But he does not really understand how I feel because he is very different when it comes to death and loss. He never even got sad or cried when either of his parents died, it was just like any other day; his only sister died about a week ago and he never got sad or cried. It is the same way when a cat dies. He is like a stone. I finally had to get a counselor again after five years of not having one, because it got so bad last January.

I am not going to go into any details about what happened to the cats or what has happened more recently because it is just too horrible, unimaginable. I will sometimes talk about it in private but only with people who want to know, people I trust. Unfortunately, nice as she is, by new counselor is not much help to me, but it is better than having nobody to talk to, even though I can only talk on the phone now because of Covid-19 restrictions and I cannot get regular appointments.

But where the hell is God when you need Him? Nowhere. The only help I have ever gotten is from kind and compassionate people, some of whom are on this forum. God is nowhere to be found. Sorry, I am not buying off on that God is working through these people because the people deserve the credit, not God. Interestingly, most of these kind and compassionate people have been atheists.

Now is the time for all the believers to blame me for not having God at my side because I am “shutting God out,” as if they could ever know that is what I am doing. Besides, if God is really All-Powerful and All-Loving, God could get in even if I am shutting Him out.

I rest my case.

 

[stvdv]

I am going to lay my cards right on the table. I am really angry at God because He created humans and animals with mortal bodies such that they will die.

Why did God create mortal bodies?

We have already now too many people on the earth, just imagine all were immortal. Seems to me a Master Plan.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why did God create mortal bodies?

We have already now too many people on the earth, just imagine all were immortal. Seems to me a Master Plan.

That is the logical answer. I was not looking for a logical answer.

 

[George-ananda]

You might not think so, but living forever in a finite body would actually be torturous. The same thing forever, What makes life interesting is changing and growth.

The truth is that we are spiritual beings and not physical bodies. We easily forget that and think the physical is everything. As one progresses spiritually the more one does not identify themselves with the body.

Actually if there were a better system, we would have it.

 

[Brickjectivity]

First of all I hope everything is Ok for you.

But where the hell is God when you need Him? Nowhere. The only help I have ever gotten is from kind and compassionate people, some of whom are on this forum. God is nowhere to be found. Sorry, I am not buying off on that God is working through these people because the people deserve the credit, not God. Interestingly, most of these kind and compassionate people have been atheists.

Now is the time for all the believers to blame me for not having God at my side because I am “shutting God out,” as if they could ever know that is what I am doing. Besides, if God is really All-Powerful and All-Loving, God could get in even if I am shutting Him out.

I rest my case.

I don't blame you though you are perhaps not angry with the version of God that truly matters but are angry with some idea of God. It feels the same though. Its a little hard to pin God down in a way that one can be angry with an item. I can get angry with door frame that I bump my head on, but I can't even identify where God is to direct my anger. Its like space itself moves around the fist, like there's nothing to hit, not even an empty space. Perhaps you are angry with a mirage or past image of what you thought God was and expectations you had. That also creates additional anger, sometimes.

I know that some Christians believe it was not supposed to be this way at least for humans, until Adam and Eve sinned, but I do not believe that bodies ever could have lived forever because they were not created to me immortal, so living forever in a physical body is absurd to me. But what is the other option? Death.

Probably about 80% of Christians, my gu-e-ss-timate. That's not 100%, nor is it necessarily the only or the best way of viewing things. I'd say its also questionable.

Now, let’s try to pretend that people are not afraid of dying.

If that is true, why all the fear of Covid-19, why the masks and social distancing, closing schools and businesses and basically shutting down economies all over the world? Let’s get real folks; people are terrified of death, even though most people believe in an afterlife. Most people enjoy life and they do not want to die, no matter how great heaven might be.

When Covid-19 first hit, I was not afraid at all, and I wondered why people were so fearful. I was never afraid because I am not afraid of my own death, since I have a pretty good idea where I am headed and I know it is not the end of me, but rather just a new beginning in another world, a world that is much better than this hellhole.

I think that Christians are generally willing to die and go to heaven. At first many in my community did not at first wear masks, either; but as they began to see it as a responsibility more did so. Not everybody understands the Math, so a lot of people were slow to take up the masks, probably for that reason and because of misinformation. Some people really wanted people to believe that the state was opposing church or that the left was inflating the import of the virus. That also factored in. In the end though I think Christians were generally quite strong believers in going to heaven.

I am going to lay my cards right on the table. I am really angry at God because He created humans and animals with mortal bodies such that they will die...

Assuming that God has any concern about physical creation, sure. Have you considered the possibility that God is as likely to dislike the physical world as to like it, if God has likes and dislikes. You and I like things, need things, feel things.

...If I think about it for very long I hate God for what He did, but what other choices did He have? I don’t know because I am not God, but is God is All-Knowing and All-Powerful so I tend to think it did not have to be this way. The more I type the angrier I become.

The trouble here is that you could be entirely wrong. Besides, anger is not truly directed but is a feeling that comes from inside of us. Its like water in a water tower always there waiting for a sluice. You can always get angry, but that doesn't mean there is a rational reason. Keep your cool if you can.

 

[stvdv]

Why did God create mortal bodies?

We have already now too many people on the earth, just imagine all were immortal. Seems to me a Master Plan.

That is the logical answer. I was not looking for a logical answer.

Okay, I will now give a "not logical answer"

On second thought, that makes no sense

 

[JustGeorge]

I am so sorry you're struggling like this...

I promise not to judge you on having cats. You know what? I have ten. I had eleven, until four days ago... She was an outdoor cat; a feral we cared for. There was a car. I will not go into details... I have been quietly mourning since. I have lost cats along the way, and it hurts every time, but I assume they are all on their own paths, like me, and we may(I like to hope) meet again soon.

My understanding of God and cats was always more intuitive, rather than scriptural. I was raised in a Christian home, but honestly, I don't remember much of it, other than my dad was always saying this, that, or the other thing about hell. I just tuned him out, because it didn't really make sense to me.

I don't know a terrible amount about the Baha'i faith, so I can't guide you scripturally. I am sorry for this. All I can do is share my own thoughts and experiences.

I just always felt there was more to God than could be known. I never assumed God was all powerful, and I believe God mourns. I always tear up reading the story of Shiva and Sati. To me, there are few I can think of with more power than Shiva, yet here he is, mourning an event he could not prevent. In my mind, God suffers with us. Do I know this? No. It's intuitive; my own thoughts and feelings.

If you have to shut God out for a time, so be it. In my understanding, God wants all of us, not just the polished part. Our tears, our fears, our anger. Let it out at him, if it helps. Sometimes, in a relationship, a fight has to happen in order for there to be growth.

 

[Trailblazer]

You might not think so, but living forever in a finite body would actually be torturous. The same thing forever, What makes life interesting is changing and growth.

The truth is that we are spiritual beings and not physical bodies. We easily forget that and think the physical is everything. As one progresses spiritually the more one does not identify themselves with the body.

Actually if there were a better system, we would have it.

I have no desire to live forever in a mortal body, nothing could be worse than that.

I know that humans are spiritual beings and not physical bodies; I am a Baha'i and you already know what Baha'is believe.

I do not care about humans because I already know where they are headed. I was talking about animals, but apparently God does not give a rip about animals having an afterlife. Even if God cares and they survive death God is keeping that under His hat along with everything else He hides there.

 

[Nimos]

I am going to lay my cards right on the table. I am really angry at God because He created humans and animals with mortal bodies such that they will die. Why did God have to create humans and animals this way? If I think about it for very long I hate God for what He did, but what other choices did He have?

Your view is to narrow trailblazer, he could have made them spiritual or whatever form he wanted. Life, if God exists is defined by him. So why would it have to be physical?

Now, let’s try to pretend that people are not afraid of dying.

It depends, I told you this before, even if you think it was a joke, people are not afraid of dying, they might be afraid of how they die. If a meteor (Which is my preferred way of dying) hit me in the head and instantly killed me. I wouldn't care at all. Why should it?

If I have to go through a long and painful death I wouldn't like that, and I fear that. Not because of death but because of all the pain. Same goes if someone shoots me and I have to look at the gun waiting for it to happen. I wouldn't like that either. But if someone shot me without knowing, I couldn't care less. Does that makes sense?

If that is true, why all the fear of Covid-19, why the masks and social distancing, closing schools and businesses and basically shutting down economies all over the world? Let’s get real folks; people are terrified of death, even though most people believe in an afterlife. Most people enjoy life and they do not want to die, no matter how great heaven might be.

Again because of the way you die. If you die instantly you won't notice anyway, so why should you care? The other aspect of this when not looking at it from a personal perspective, is that you would have to live with someone you love dying. Which is painful and therefore we don't like it. Which again is why we care. Death itself is nothing to be afraid of, it's what leading up to death or the consequences of losing someone that matters.

I am going to lay some more cards on the table. I have lost all my loved ones to death, first my father, then my sister and then my mother. I think my brother is still alive but I never talk to him anymore. I never had any children so all I have left is my husband, and he is 10 years older than me so he will probably die before I die.

You explain it yourself here. This is what you fear and what everyone fear. You don't want to be the last one left with no one to care about you going to the grave. When you loose someone, you have to live with the loss of them, which is not funny. But its even less funny to be the last one, where you have to spend the rest of your life alone, no friends and no family. It's not unnatural to feel that way, it's just how life is, someone has to be the last one, and we all fear it, whether you are an atheist or a religious person. But again it is not death itself we fear.

My husband is the only one who knows our situation and how I suffer and how it has nearly destroyed me so many times. But he does not really understand how I feel because he is very different when it comes to death and loss. He never even got sad or cried when either of his parents died, it was just like any other day; his only sister died about a week ago and he never got sad or cried.

Maybe he simply express his feeling alone. Im not sure, I would cry if my parents died, and I love them very much. But I might simply choose to handle it my own personal way. I don't know, it doesn't mean i don't care, but I feel more secure and focused when im alone. My thoughts, feels are not disturbed etc. Maybe he have it like that? Or maybe he have come to terms that life leads to death, its just how it is. Or maybe he chooses to focus on the positive things and memories instead. How people choose to handle this, is very different from how others might choose to do it. It doesn't mean that he doesn't care.

But where the hell is God when you need Him? Nowhere. The only help I have ever gotten is from kind and compassionate people, some of whom are on this forum.

Im probably not the right person to answer you on this. But you know where I stand. You want to change or make this world better, you have to rely on humans, people are good if they are given the correct conditions. No one is born evil!! Because it doesn't exist.
People do bad things, because of how they are brought up and what they experience in life. And yes some are born with biological "errors" that causes them to do bad things. But that is a minority in comparison to the ones that are ruined by how things are done in the world.

God is not going to save anyone or anything, because if that were the case, he would already have done it.

Now is the time for all the believers to blame me for not having God at my side because I am “shutting God out,” as if they could ever know that is what I am doing. Besides, if God is really All-Powerful and All-Loving, God could get in even if I am shutting Him out.

They can't do that, because as I have already tried to explain to you several times, they have no clue what a potential God think!! They merely share their interpretation of what they believe the texts mean. It's nothing but guesses, without any credentials behind them. That is why, I try to tell you to demand evidence for whatever people claim is true!!

 

[sun rise]

@Trailblazer - I hear your pain. All I can offer is that you are not alone. Your suffering reminded me of a legend of St. Teresa of Avila that goes something like this:

She was going somewhere. Various versions have her on a donkey or walking. But she suffered a real setback. One version has her almost being carried off and drowning on a river.

She asked God why he was treating her so when she had dedicated her life to Him. He replied that was how he treated his friends.

“Ah, Lord, it is also on that account that Thou hast so few!” was her reply.

 

[Kenny]

I am going to lay my cards right on the table. I am really angry at God because He created humans and animals with mortal bodies such that they will die. Why did God have to create humans and animals this way? If I think about it for very long I hate God for what He did, but what other choices did He have? I don’t know because I am not God, but is God is All-Knowing and All-Powerful so I tend to think it did not have to be this way. The more I type the angrier I become.

I think it depends on which book you subscribe to or, if it is the Bible, what interpretation you subscribe to.

My understanding is that Adam and Eve's body for created for eternal purposes and had authority with power over the earth. (dominion)

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Ps 115:16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

However, Adam didn't exercise his authority in the Garden and basically gave the authority of this world to Satan. The consequences of Adam's sin was that the earth was cursed:

Gen 3:Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Satan, the person who the power over death, was now in semi-control of the earth and having the ground cursed, which bodies are made of, now are mortal until God gives us new bodies.

Of course, that is a Christian viewpoint. It was man's fault and not God's but He will ultimately fix it all.

 

[Trailblazer]

First of all I hope everything is Ok for you.

Thanks. I am coping just barely, but I will get through it because I really have no choice.

I don't blame you though you are perhaps not angry with the version of God that truly matters but are angry with some idea of God. It feels the same though. Its a little hard to pin God down in a way that one can be angry with an item.

I understand your point but I do not really have a version of God. What makes me angry at God is that God created this world the way it is and mortal beings that will die. If God is the Creator, you really cannot get around this, the buck stops with God. I am sure a world with no death sounds irrational but feelings are not about rationality.

Probably about 80% of Christians, my gu-e-ss-timate. That's not 100%, nor is it necessarily the only or the best way of viewing things. I'd say its also questionable.

I do not consider it questionable, I consider it ludicrous. If nobody had ever died after the Garden of Eden episode, that would have led to overpopulation long ago, and if all the dead bodies of Christians rise from their graves where are they al going to live? Obviously, these Christians have not thought this through.

I think that Christians are generally willing to die and go to heaven.

I am not so sure about that, not even all Christians believe they are going to heaven, many believe they will "love forever" on earth. I think mist people are afraid of death, whether they are Christians or not. Bahais have what i consider an arrogant attitude to death so when someone dies they minimize it ans act like they went on a trip to Europe or something, but they call it the Abha Kingdom.

Assuming that God has any concern about physical creation, sure. Have you considered the possibility that God is as likely to dislike the physical world as to like it, if God has likes and dislikes. You and I like things, need things, feel things.

Then why did God create the physical world? Oh, I almost forgot, to torture He creatures so they could grow spiritually.

The trouble here is that you could be entirely wrong. Besides, anger is not truly directed but is a feeling that comes from inside of us. Its like water in a water tower always there waiting for a sluice. You can always get angry, but that doesn't mean there is a rational reason. Keep your cool if you can.

I am well aware that I am not being rational when I am angry, but I cannot stop the anger, and as long as I am not angry at someone my anger prevents me from getting depressed. According to my beliefs I cannot hurt God with my anger.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Angels are not immortal, either. The difference is their bodies are in the invisible spirit realm, where they live.

It's hard for us to fathom that kind of realm, where those intelligent forms of energy exist.

But angels can die.

 

[George-ananda]

I have no desire to live forever in a mortal body, nothing could be worse than that.

I know that humans are spiritual beings and not physical bodies; I am a Baha'i and you already know what Baha'is believe.

I do not care about humans because I already know where they are headed. I was talking about animals, but apparently God does not give a rip about animals having an afterlife. Even if God cares and they survive death God is keeping that under His hat along with everything else He hides there.

IMO Animals too are part of their species group soul so it is not so totally different. But I of course understand how attached we can be to the temporary physical form.

 

[Trailblazer]

I am so sorry you're struggling like this...

Thanks, you are kind.

I promise not to judge you on having cats. You know what? I have ten. I had eleven, until four days ago... She was an outdoor cat; a feral we cared for. There was a car. I will not go into details... I have been quietly mourning since. I have lost cats along the way, and it hurts every time, but I assume they are all on their own paths, like me, and we may(I like to hope) meet again soon.

I am so sorry for your loss. We had ten till about two days ago. Now we have nine if you don't count our feral cat we call "outdoor kitty." All the others are Persians and strictly indoors except for a few of the younger ones who go out in the fenced yard.

I believe that the cats probably live on in a spirit realm, but that does not seem to assuage the pain much at all. I just do not deal with loss very well, and much of that dates back to my father dying suddenly of a heart attack when I was 12 years old. My mother could not face it so she started to drink heavily and I never was allowed to grieve. My life went south after that and eventually, in my early 30s, I started to get help for my emotional problems, but I still have PTSD from my father's death so every time a cat dies, especially if it is sudden, I relive it. Counseling never helped but it has gotten better in recent years since I have had support on forums.

My understanding of God and cats was always more intuitive, rather than scriptural. I was raised in a Christian home, but honestly, I don't remember much of it, other than my dad was always saying this, that, or the other thing about hell. I just tuned him out, because it didn't really make sense to me.

I was not raised in Christianity or believing in God and I think that is one reason I have a problem with a "loving God." If I many ask, how did you become a Hindu?

I don't know a terrible amount about the Baha'i faith, so I can't guide you scripturally. I am sorry for this. All I can do is share my own thoughts and experiences.

I appreciate that. I do not know much about Hinduism either, except that Baha'is believe it is one of the great religions and was revealed by Krishna.

I just always felt there was more to God than could be known. I never assumed God was all powerful, and I believe God mourns. I always tear up reading the story of Shiva and Sati. To me, there are few I can think of with more power than Shiva, yet here he is, mourning an event he could not prevent. In my mind, God suffers with us. Do I know this? No. It's intuitive; my own thoughts and feelings.

Well, I do not really know if God suffers with us but it is a Baha'i belief that God is a a personal god who is a being with a personality (including the capacity to reason and to feel love), although we clearly state that this does not imply a human or physical form.

If you have to shut God out for a time, so be it. In my understanding, God wants all of us, not just the polished part. Our tears, our fears, our anger. Let it out at him, if it helps. Sometimes, in a relationship, a fight has to happen in order for there to be growth.

I pretty much shut God out all the time, because these episodes of loss are so frequent and I never have a chance to recover before it happens again. So as soon as I start to get my bearings, there I am again. I wish I could learn to relate to this differently, but a part of me wants nothing to do with God, ever. I feel like an abused child that has been hurt too bad to recover, and I see God as the perpetrator. This puts me in an awkward position because of what my religion teaches about God being the centerpiece, always there for us. This just does not comport with what I see or feel.

 

[Trailblazer]

Of course, that is a Christian viewpoint. It was man's fault and not God's but He will ultimately fix it all.

The Baha'i viewpoint is that it was nobody's fault that we are mortal, that is just how God created us; but even though that body will die, we will not die, since we are not a body with a soul, we are a soul that temporarily inhabits a physical body while we live on earth. When we die physically our soul will take on another form on the spiritual world.

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

 

[Trailblazer]

But angels can die.

How can they die and why would they die, if they are not physical?

 

[Trailblazer]

IMO Animals too are part of their species group soul so it is not so totally different. But I of course understand how attached we can be to the temporary physical form.

Sure, I miss the physical form but it would be a lot easier for me of I knew for a fact that they were in a spirit realm.
I know you know a lot about such things so I respect your opinion....

Incidentally, my former naturopath (now retired) was aghast when I told her what Abdu'l-Baha said about the animal spirit being "extinguished." She said matter can never be extinguished. I do not believe that he was qualified to be venturing out into scientific subjects, but of course most Baha'is believe him.

My veterinarian also believes that animals continue to exist in the spirit realm, she sais there is no question.

 

[JustGeorge]

I believe that the cats probably live on in a spirit realm, but that does not seem to assuage the pain much at all. I just do not deal with loss very well, and much of that dates back to my father dying suddenly of a heart attack when I was 12 years old. My mother could not face it so she started to drink heavily and I never was allowed to grieve. My life went south after that and eventually, in my early 30s, I started to get help for my emotional problems, but I still have PTSD from my father's death so every time a cat dies, especially if it is sudden, I relive it. Counseling never helped but it has gotten better in recent years since I have had support on forums.

Are you allowing yourself to grieve now? You have experienced a great loss. You've stated your husband doesn't process things in a similar manner. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong if your grief is more outward than his. What will help the pain? Would you like to talk about your cat? Some people like to share the memories they have of the one they've lost.

I was not raised in Christianity or believing in God and I think that is one reason I have a problem with a "loving God." If I many ask, how did you become a Hindu?

It's a long story, but a short answer is I was lead into it from a life of having too many questions, and a few practical jokes on the part of Sri Krishna. How did you find your faith, and how has it shaped your belief in God?

I can see why you'd feel angry at God, if your faith says he should be your support, and all you feel is beaten by him. I'd be angry, too. Could it be now is not the best time to deal with God, and its better to deal with your loss instead? Have you any support to turn to?

 

[Trailblazer]

Your view is to narrow trailblazer, he could have made them spiritual or whatever form he wanted. Life, if God exists is defined by him. So why would it have to be physical?

Isn’t that what I said? I said “but what other choices did He have? I don’t know because I am not God, but is God is All-Knowing and All-Powerful so I tend to think it did not have to be this way.” I was thinking of what you have said in the past when I wrote that.

It depends, I told you this before, even if you think it was a joke, people are not afraid of dying, they might be afraid of how they die. If a meteor (Which is my preferred way of dying) hit me in the head and instantly killed me. I wouldn't care at all. Why should it?

If I have to go through a long and painful death I wouldn't like that, and I fear that. Not because of death but because of all the pain. Same goes if someone shoots me and I have to look at the gun waiting for it to happen. I wouldn't like that either. But if someone shot me without knowing, I couldn't care less. Does that makes sense?

I think most people are afraid of dying and you are just an exception, because (1) they fear the unknown and (2) they do not want to cease to exist.

Also, people do not want to die because they are attached to this world and they do not want to leave it. Just look at all the Christians who believe that they will live forever on this earth in resurrected physical bodies.

Again because of the way you die. If you die instantly you won't notice anyway, so why should you care? The other aspect of this when not looking at it from a personal perspective, is that you would have to live with someone you love dying. Which is painful and therefore we don't like it. Which again is why we care. Death itself is nothing to be afraid of, it's what leading up to death or the consequences of losing someone that matters.

You are an awfully strange guy Nimos. Even if you do not fear death, I think if we took a poll and people were honest I think you would find out that most people (if healthy) do not want to die. Maybe it is because you are an atheist that you do not fear death, because you think there is nothing on the other side, but you are right, death is nothing to fear and Baha’u’llah even said that:

32: O SON OF THE SUPREME! I have made death a messenger of joy to thee. Wherefore dost thou grieve? I made the light to shed on thee its splendor. Why dost thou veil thyself therefrom?
The Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah

Then there is this little anecdote from a spirit who passed on:

“Physical death is nothing. There really is no cause for fear.....
You see, I was so little 'dead' that I imagined I was still physically) alive. Think of it a moment before we pass on. I had been struck by a shell splinter. There was no pain. The life was knocked out of my body; again, I say, there was no pain. Then I found that the whole of myself--all, that is, that thinks and sees and feels and knows--was still alive and conscious! I had begun a new chapter of life. I will tell you what I felt like. It was as if I had been running hard until, hot and breathless, I had thrown my overcoat away. The coat was my body, and if I had not thrown it away I should have suffocated. I cannot describe the experience in a better way; there is nothing else to describe.” PrivateDowding, p. 14, 16

You explain it yourself here. This is what you fear and what everyone fear. You don't want to be the last one left with no one to care about you going to the grave. When you lose someone, you have to live with the loss of them, which is not funny. But its even less funny to be the last one, where you have to spend the rest of your life alone, no friends and no family. It's not unnatural to feel that way, it's just how life is, someone has to be the last one, and we all fear it, whether you are an atheist or a religious person. But again it is not death itself we fear.

Okay, I am glad you understand that. It is about being alone, so if my husband dies I might get married again, this time to a younger man. My brother was in his early 60s when his wife died of cancer and a few years later he remarried and in many ways she was even more suited for him, although he and his first wife were also very compatible and they were married for 28 years.

Maybe he simply express his feeling alone. Im not sure, I would cry if my parents died, and I love them very much. But I might simply choose to handle it my own personal way. I don't know, it doesn't mean i don't care, but I feel more secure and focused when im alone. My thoughts, feels are not disturbed etc. Maybe he have it like that? Or maybe he have come to terms that life leads to death, its just how it is. Or maybe he chooses to focus on the positive things and memories instead. How people choose to handle this, is very different from how others might choose to do it. It doesn't mean that he doesn't care.

No, my husband will even admit he does not have any feelings about it. He is just like you when it comes to death and not fearing it and he is also best when alone, as long as he has a television. But I understand that not all people handle death of a loved one the same way, and a lot of it is how they die and how they were living before they died. His sister had had dementia for some 20 years and was in assisted living and then hospice care and that was no life, so now that she has been freed from the body she can be herself again in the spiritual realm.

Im probably not the right person to answer you on this. But you know where I stand. You want to change or make this world better, you have to rely on humans, people are good if they are given the correct conditions. No one is born evil!! Because it doesn't exist.

You sound just like a Baha’i, except that they also rely upon God.

People do bad things, because of how they are brought up and what they experience in life. And yes some are born with biological "errors" that causes them to do bad things. But that is a minority in comparison to the ones that are ruined by how things are done in the world.

That’s true.

God is not going to save anyone or anything, because if that were the case, he would already have done it.

That’s true too, logically speaking. That is why I do not know why so many people pray when bad things are happening.

They can't do that, because as I have already tried to explain to you several times, they have no clue what a potential God think!! They merely share their interpretation of what they believe the texts mean. It's nothing but guesses, without any credentials behind them. That is why, I try to tell you to demand evidence for whatever people claim is true!!

I am with you on that Nimos. Believers want to believe they know because that makes them feel secure, but it is just an interpretation of scriptures thus subject to error. People can also imagine all kinds of things, like God is doing x, y, or z, because they want to believe that. I cannot live that way, I need something more concrete.