Why are majority of Arabs, Anti-america

[LuisDantas]

Why do they come to our western countries and start complaining? Why is it that we have to change to adopt their way of thinking within our own countries?

Are you sure that even happens, however?

For one thing, you're glossing over the fact that, for better or worse, the USA are not your average western country. Not too many western countries initiate wars despite the UNO's explicit disapproval, for instance.

As for "having to change do adopt their way of thinking"... now, that is an unlikely proposition if I ever saw one. Can you be more specific and mention a concrete example, please?

If the arab countries hate us so be it.

Ex-cu-se me?!?! You can't be serious.

Would you really just cross your arms and watch passively while a sizeable chunk of the world population breeds hatred for yours?

That's FAR beyond unwise. For one thing, it would indicate to the rest of the world that it is too much to expect reason or diplomatic goodwill from your country. A terrible message to pass, for it can only lead to hostilities. And so easy to avoid, really.

To be honest i dont think we should care too much. As long as they stay where they are and we stay where we are who cares right? They only get annoyed when the west tries to help them.

Funny. I could have sworn that Guantanamo did not kidnap the American soldiers that are currently there, for one thing. Not to mention those two countries of the Middle East, whattare their names again?

Seriously, this discourse of yours is not very defensible at all. But if it were then it would by rights be used against the USA, not by them.

 

[kai]

you see one aspect of it is the concept of the Ummah,

Lets take Alqueda they attack the US ,there is some critical statements from some Arab Countries but Alqueda is of the Ummah, they are Muslims some people might say they are bad Muslims but they are still Muslims whatever they do so they are brothers.

The Us retaliates and invades Afghanistan now thats an attack on the Ummah so its well within the rights of certain Clerics from here to Timbuktu to order Fatwas etc to fight the Infidels, not all Muslims heed the call but enough do to perpetuate the war many years later.

Then Rightly or wrongly we have the invasion of Iraq. the same circumstances apply as above , it doesn't really matter if Saddam was a tyrant at least he was a Muslim one, so that makes him a brother, a wayward and violent oppressive one but a brother none the less.

smoldering away for decades and occasionally erupting into violence we have the Israeli Arab conflict , Israel is built on Muslim lands and must go, any western country expressing a view otherwise is against the Ummah. Hamas may be a gang of thugs but they are brotherly thugs. Hezbollah might be a private army and an arm of Iran and do not come under the control of the Lebanese Government ,and wish to annihilate Israel and liberate all of Palestine, but they are brothers none the less.

Now its OK for Iran or Syria to interfere in Muslim countries because they are of the ummah and at least its all kept in the family so to speak. at worst its a case of its better the devil you know than the great Satan they tell you about.





you will see from the Muslim members here that post in the Palestinian threads that they very often refer to Palestinians as "we" or "us" thats the Ummah all Muslims are brothers and sisters whether they are Palestinian or British so there is a predisposition in the Quran to fight in a defensive war or only when attacked, as the Ummah has been attacked then its quite understandable that some Muslims would want to fight back or hate the west, and Islam is basically an Arab based religion Arabs are usually the most vociferous.

 

[darkendless]

Are you sure that even happens, however?

For one thing, you're glossing over the fact that, for better or worse, the USA are not your average western country. Not too many western countries initiate wars despite the UNO's explicit disapproval, for instance.

As for "having to change do adopt their way of thinking"... now, that is an unlikely proposition if I ever saw one. Can you be more specific and mention a concrete example, please?



Ex-cu-se me?!?! You can't be serious.

Would you really just cross your arms and watch passively while a sizeable chunk of the world population breeds hatred for yours?

That's FAR beyond unwise. For one thing, it would indicate to the rest of the world that it is too much to expect reason or diplomatic goodwill from your country. A terrible message to pass, for it can only lead to hostilities. And so easy to avoid, really.



Funny. I could have sworn that Guantanamo did not kidnap the American soldiers that are currently there, for one thing. Not to mention those two countries of the Middle East, whattare their names again?

Seriously, this discourse of yours is not very defensible at all. But if it were then it would by rights be used against the USA, not by them.

Im Australian and im talking about an example within Australia. Same thing happens in Britian. Sharia courts exist, its like the British courts aren't good enough for them. My country did initiate in the same war. There are many many Islamic schools in my country which teaches separation.

Im a realist champion, i accept that western countries are often depsised for their political and international involvement. It would be wrong to think that people do not despise us. Even i despise America sometimes. What do you want the west to do? Go and be over-friendly to the arabs? Go and send them a present? Come on wake up.

Guantanamo Bay is a lovely peice of Fail. My cousin as ive stated many times here is building houses in Afghanistan right now for those that hate him. I wish he wasn't there. With all these attacks on our soldiers why do we bother trying to rebuild lives for these ingrates?

Just because you have a problem with my discourse, doesn't mean i can't defend it.

 

[Sahar]

you see one aspect of it is the concept of the Ummah,

Lets take Alqueda they attack the US ,there is some critical statements from some Arab Countries but Alqueda is of the Ummah, they are Muslims some people might say they are bad Muslims but they are still Muslims whatever they do so they are brothers.

The Us retaliates and invades Afghanistan now thats an attack on the Ummah so its well within the rights of certain Clerics from here to Timbuktu to order Fatwas etc to fight the Infidels, not all Muslims heed the call but enough do to perpetuate the war many years later.

Then Rightly or wrongly we have the invasion of Iraq. the same circumstances apply as above , it doesn't really matter if Saddam was a tyrant at least he was a Muslim one, so that makes him a brother, a wayward and violent oppressive one but a brother none the less.

smoldering away for decades and occasionally erupting into violence we have the Israeli Arab conflict , Israel is built on Muslim lands and must go, any western country expressing a view otherwise is against the Ummah. Hamas may be a gang of thugs but they are brotherly thugs. Hezbollah might be a private army and an arm of Iran and do not come under the control of the Lebanese Government ,and wish to annihilate Israel and liberate all of Palestine, but they are brothers none the less.

Now its OK for Iran or Syria to interfere in Muslim countries because they are of the ummah and at least its all kept in the family so to speak. at worst its a case of its better the devil you know than the great Satan they tell you about.





you will see from the Muslim members here that post in the Palestinian threads that they very often refer to Palestinians as "we" or "us" thats the Ummah all Muslims are brothers and sisters whether they are Palestinian or British so there is a predisposition in the Quran to fight in a defensive war or only when attacked, as the Ummah has been attacked then its quite understandable that some Muslims would want to fight back or hate the west, and Islam is basically an Arab based religion Arabs are usually the most vociferous.

The brotherhood in Islam comes first before brotherhood in nationality or race...etc. So what happens to a Muslim thousands of kilometers away from me is my concern.
Loyalty to Islam comes first before anything.

you will see from the Muslim members here that post in the Palestinian threads that they very often refer to Palestinians as "we" or "us" thats the Ummah all Muslims are brothers and sisters whether they are Palestinian or British so there is a predisposition in the Quran to fight in a defensive war or only when attacked, as the Ummah has been attacked then its quite understandable that some Muslims would want to fight back or hate the west

This is true.

and Islam is basically an Arab based religion Arabs are usually the most vociferous.

:sarcastic

 

[kai]

I think that once people understand the concept of the Ummah , then it is not surprising that some Muslims dislike the west but it is surprising that more Muslims dont dislike the west.



Nice to see you Not4me.

 

[Caladan]

you see one aspect of it is the concept of the Ummah,

Lets take Alqueda they attack the US ,there is some critical statements from some Arab Countries but Alqueda is of the Ummah, they are Muslims some people might say they are bad Muslims but they are still Muslims whatever they do so they are brothers.

The Us retaliates and invades Afghanistan now thats an attack on the Ummah so its well within the rights of certain Clerics from here to Timbuktu to order Fatwas etc to fight the Infidels, not all Muslims heed the call but enough do to perpetuate the war many years later.

Then Rightly or wrongly we have the invasion of Iraq. the same circumstances apply as above , it doesn't really matter if Saddam was a tyrant at least he was a Muslim one, so that makes him a brother, a wayward and violent oppressive one but a brother none the less.

smoldering away for decades and occasionally erupting into violence we have the Israeli Arab conflict , Israel is built on Muslim lands and must go, any western country expressing a view otherwise is against the Ummah. Hamas may be a gang of thugs but they are brotherly thugs. Hezbollah might be a private army and an arm of Iran and do not come under the control of the Lebanese Government ,and wish to annihilate Israel and liberate all of Palestine, but they are brothers none the less.

Now its OK for Iran or Syria to interfere in Muslim countries because they are of the ummah and at least its all kept in the family so to speak. at worst its a case of its better the devil you know than the great Satan they tell you about.





you will see from the Muslim members here that post in the Palestinian threads that they very often refer to Palestinians as "we" or "us" thats the Ummah all Muslims are brothers and sisters whether they are Palestinian or British so there is a predisposition in the Quran to fight in a defensive war or only when attacked, as the Ummah has been attacked then its quite understandable that some Muslims would want to fight back or hate the west, and Islam is basically an Arab based religion Arabs are usually the most vociferous.

The Ummah is a concept of fiction. the dozens of Muslim nations are different from each other, and have their own interests and aspirations. the Ummah may have a nice ring to it on rhetoric and passionate sermons, but in reality the concept does not exist.
As on can see the situation reflected in the many numerous conflicts and wars between Arabs and other Muslims: Iran-Iraq, Iraqi massacre of Kurds, Turks-Kurds, Jordan-Syrian tensions, Black September- civil war inside Jordan between Jordan and the Palestinians, North Yemen, Libya-Egypt, Lebanese civil war, Iraq-Kuwait.

 

[Sahar]

I think that once people understand the concept of the Ummah , then it is not surprising that some Muslims dislike the west but it is surprising that more Muslims dont dislike the west.



Nice to see you Not4me.

Thanks kai, the same to you.
"Dislike" needs to be defined. I tell you that there is wide anti-American (especially) sentiments between the Muslim public but it's because of the American policies in our Islamic region, not to the American people or even the American lifestyle. Heck, many Muslim youth dream to travel to America or even Europe (due to various reasons).
But if you mean by "dislike" ideological disagreement between our religion Islam and the Western concepts and lifestyle, of course we disagree in many areas. If you mean by "dislike" refusing the West as a whole "those kuffar..." you know, yeah this kind of sentiment is present but limited to a minority I believe.

BTW, many Muslims don't view Hamas or Hezbullah the way you described, this is actually how "the West" view them and some Muslims just repeat what "the West" says (thugs, army of Iran...etc).
And BTW too, Iran is a Muslim country.

 

[Sahar]

The Ummah is a concept of fiction. the dozens of Muslim nations are different from each other, and have their own interests and aspirations. the Ummah may have a nice ring to it on rhetoric and passionate sermons, but in reality the concept does not exist.
As on can see the situation reflected in the many numerous conflicts and wars between Arabs and other Muslims: Iran-Iraq, Iraqi massacre of Kurds, Turks-Kurds, Jordan-Syrian tensions, Black September- civil war inside Jordan between Jordan and the Palestinians, North Yemen, Libya-Egypt, Lebanese civil war, Iraq-Kuwait.

No fiction about it. It's a basic Islamic concept and if the Ummah deviated away in a certain period of its history or time from the Islamic thinking, this doesn't mean it's fiction.
The status of the Muslim countries in our current time that you described is unIslamic, moreover many governments of the Muslim countries are secular and non-Islamic systems (i.e not following the Islamic Shari'a).

 

[Reverend Rick]

Why are the majority of Arabs anti American?

Why do you believe this to be fact?

 

[kai]

The Ummah is a concept of fiction. the dozens of Muslim nations are different from each other, and have their own interests and aspirations. the Ummah may have a nice ring to it on rhetoric and passionate sermons, but in reality the concept does not exist.
As on can see the situation reflected in the many numerous conflicts and wars between Arabs and other Muslims: Iran-Iraq, Iraqi massacre of Kurds, Turks-Kurds, Jordan-Syrian tensions, Black September- civil war inside Jordan between Jordan and the Palestinians, North Yemen, Libya-Egypt, Lebanese civil war, Iraq-Kuwait.

well not according to muslims, and like i said brothers may fight brothers but woe betide the man that should attack my brother.

 

[kai]

Thanks kai, the same to you.
"Dislike" needs to be defined. I tell you that there is wide anti-American (especially) sentiments between the Muslim public but it's because of the American policies in our Islamic region, not to the American people or even the American lifestyle. Heck, many Muslim youth dream to travel to America or even Europe (due to various reasons).
But if you mean by "dislike" ideological disagreement between our religion Islam and the Western concepts and lifestyle, of course we disagree in many areas. If you mean by "dislike" refusing the West as a whole "those kuffar..." you know, yeah this kind of sentiment is present but limited to a minority I believe.

BTW, many Muslims don't view Hamas or Hezbullah the way you described, this is actually how "the West" view them and some Muslims just repeat what "the West" says (thugs, army of Iran...etc). Yes i agree
And BTW too, Iran is a Muslim country.

Yes i know , the OP said Arabs but i would prefer the term Muslim to explain the Ummah.

 

[Sahar]

Yes i know , the OP said Arabs but i would prefer the term Muslim to explain the Ummah.

Well...you have the Arabic Ummah too; Arab nationalism.

 

[kai]

Well...you have the Arabic Ummah too; Arab nationalism.

wouldnt you say that was more a political ideal than a religious one , like you said Iran are Mulsims too but they are not Arabs. what connects an Iranian and a palestinian is Islam , even though the Shia and Sunni devide is there, i feel in times of outside interference Islam is the overiding connection.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

The brotherhood in Islam comes first before brotherhood in nationality or race...etc. So what happens to a Muslim thousands of kilometers away from me is my concern.
Loyalty to Islam comes first before anything.

not4me, what about the perspective that all human beings are brothers and sisters? I happen to think that what happens to a human being--Muslim or otherwise--thousands of kilometers away should be everyone's concern.

I know this must sound strange, but....to be honest, it's a little hurtful....to think that no amount of solidarity or friendship on my part would ever earn me the concern you automatically extend to strangers all across the world, simply because I am not Muslim. Personally...and this may not always come across from my posts....but I feel a deep sense of camaraderie with the people I regularly talk to on RF, including you and other Muslim posters...but you make it sound like Muslims have an exclusive friendship club, and I'm not welcome. Ouch.

 

[NoahideHiker]

As others have noted, the America Way of Life is hardly disliked. It's the USA foreign policies that make many people pause. There are important economical and ecological issues too. Neither of those can be legitimally excused by appealing to national sovereignity, due to their very natures.

See. this is the crux of my first post here. Everyone wants the U.S. to capitulate to what the world wants from us. At the same time as you give me the "Benaton-We're All One Big World Speech" look at our trade deficit, look at the rate jobs leave this country, look at our economy. If it sounds harsh that I do not want my tax dollars sent to another country in the form of "aid" then so be it, I'm harsh. If it sounds harsh that I am sick and tired of our 19 year old sons dying in some other country where it's own people won't rise up and fight for themselves, then so be it, I'm harsh. As I stated before, I'm looking out for my country. You all look out for your own (for a change).

I can live with that and quite contently.

 

[kai]

not4me, what about the perspective that all human beings are brothers and sisters? I happen to think that what happens to a human being--Muslim or otherwise--thousands of kilometers away should be everyone's concern.

I know this must sound strange, but....to be honest, it's a little hurtful....to think that no amount of solidarity or friendship on my part would ever earn me the concern you automatically extend to strangers all across the world, simply because I am not Muslim. Personally...and this may not always come across from my posts....but I feel a deep sense of camaraderie with the people I regularly talk to on RF, including you and other Muslim posters...but you make it sound like Muslims have an exclusive friendship club, and I'm not welcome. Ouch.

They are not strangers they are of the Ummah!,of course your welcome Mr Spinkles you just have to accept Islam

 

[LuisDantas]

See. this is the crux of my first post here. Everyone wants the U.S. to capitulate to what the world wants from us.

"Capitulate" is such a loaded world. And more than a bit ironic, considering that it was the USA who invaded Iraq and Afeganisthan in the last few years. Not to mention Guantanamo and many other lesser ofences. When was the last time that anyone used military might against the USA? Terrorism, serious and deplorable as it is, is the poor man's substitute for warfare. And warfare is something that the USA have been way too eager to commit.

If anyone can complain about others wanting them to "capitulate", it is hardly the USA.

It is far more accurate to say that the USA's influence unavoidably brings with itself a corresponding amount of duty.

At the same time as you give me the "Benaton-We're All One Big World Speech" look at our trade deficit, look at the rate jobs leave this country, look at our economy.

Excuse me, but just how is that supposed to breed sympathy for the USA? Most of the countries that are better in those regards - say, the Scandinavian ones - hardly ever demand anything from the USA already.

Besides, I have more than a slight hunch that a less insane military budget might go a long way towards improving your economy.

If it sounds harsh that I do not want my tax dollars sent to another country in the form of "aid" then so be it, I'm harsh.

No, it does not sound harsh at all. But then again, I don't think that is even the subject at hand.

If it sounds harsh that I am sick and tired of our 19 year old sons dying in some other country where it's own people won't rise up and fight for themselves, then so be it, I'm harsh.

Actually, I think you would be surprised by how much support you have in this regard. Hardly anyone wants american soldiers to operate in one's own country.

As I stated before, I'm looking out for my country. You all look out for your own (for a change).

Uh, sorry, but I must say that such a statement is somewhat delusional.

I can live with that and quite contently.

I'm afraid not, although I gather that you are sincere.

 

[TashaN]

What exactly is it you want to hear from me?

Is it so bad for me to want us to keep out of the business of other countries and expect likewise from them? Is it that horrible that I would prefer that American money stays in America than going to another country? Just as you want nothing but the best for your own country I wish the best for mine.

Don't like America? Don't come here. Don't like our way of life? Keep living yours.

I totally agree with you. You really have to stop sending money over to other countries.

WRMEA: U.S. Aid to Israel

 

[kai]

Israel is by far the the number one recipient of US foreign aid but Dont forget Egypt who is second, Jordan ,Pakistan, Lebanon and the Palestinian Authority, America gives away so much money its staggering

 

[TashaN]

They are not strangers they are of the Ummah!,of course your welcome Mr Spinkles you just have to accept Islam

:slap:

not4me, what about the perspective that all human beings are brothers and sisters? I happen to think that what happens to a human being--Muslim or otherwise--thousands of kilometers away should be everyone's concern.

I know this must sound strange, but....to be honest, it's a little hurtful....to think that no amount of solidarity or friendship on my part would ever earn me the concern you automatically extend to strangers all across the world, simply because I am not Muslim. Personally...and this may not always come across from my posts....but I feel a deep sense of camaraderie with the people I regularly talk to on RF, including you and other Muslim posters...but you make it sound like Muslims have an exclusive friendship club, and I'm not welcome. Ouch.

I don't think that what not4me was referring to. It's not about friendship. No one can choose whom to love or whom to be friend with. It's true that you are forced to have *certain siblings* but no body can impose on you *certain friendships*.

Now here i don't say that we are forced to love other Muslims, but all what i'm saying is that not4me post doesn't refer to friendship or brotherhood in humanity. She might be talking about brotherhood in Islam from a dogmatic point of view and within the context of defense in the case of attacks from others. I'm required to aid and support my fellow Muslims when they are under attack and even when they attack others. Wait, don't be shocked, let me go on.

Prophet Mohammed said "in the meaning of the hadith": Aid your brother "Muslim" whether he is prejudicing others or being prejudicing against. Someone asked prophet Mohammed, O Prophet of Allah, we do understand how we would aid our brothers and sisters when they are being attacked or being prejudiced against, but how can we support them when they are the aggressors? Prophet Mohammed "peace be upon him" answered, by preventing him from doing the aggression, you are helping him and aiding him. I don't know how you think of such a statement, but i personally believe one of the most wise and birilliant statements i have ever read which comes in a very simple, but yet so powerful to the mind of simple people at that time in Arabia, and becomes an example to the generations to come. He knew the psychology of some simple people and their emotions, and he showed them how to *aid* their fellows when they do mistakes, by *preventing* them from doing it. You see, we see it as a duty to apply this general ruling, but i'm of course aware that many Muslims forget about the second part in the Prophet statement when they are under a great preasure and in unbearable psychological condition.

That's the concept of brotherhood in Islam. We don't clap for Muslims when they are the aggressors but in the name of brotherhood we go against them and we prevent them from doing these things. Kai know this but he purposely tried to misled not4me so others would interpret her statement as if she were supporting evil Muslims as well in what they do. I hope that you won't fall for some unexplained de facto slogans by Muslims because they mean more than what they appear to be.

Friendship and brotherhood are mutual, my friend, and i really respect and appreciate them.

I hope you got now the more comprehensive meaning of what brotherhood in Islam mean.