why abrahamic religions?

[Godobeyer]

Yep. :yes:

If someone said , the meaning of anti-semitic is : include the Arabs , and Aramaics , and Islam and Christianity

Is not that incline/corrupt the meaning of semitic or anti-semitic , to mention just for jews , and judaism !!!?

That would much depend on which teachings and why.

do you mean if someone hate the judaism , it's ok ,but that's depend which verse ?

 

[loverOfTruth]

It seems pretty strange to me that God would wait many thousands of years since humans are around to send a prophet of any sort to just a small group of people and then slowly diffuse that knowledge to a subset of the population. How is that effective guidance? I realize such a claim by me, a somewhat Christian may seem hypocritical. Perhaps it is. But it is certainly I question about Christianity and Islam, and any other religion which has some messenger in a particular historical time and place demanding that the rest of humanity follow a singular exclusive path. I just do not find this line of reasoning very convincing.

I guess you didn't click on the link to the other post of mine. So here it is ....

Here's more detail on
the need for Revelation

So here is the Islamic version as to what this Revelation is. Revelations are God's word sent to Prophets of God through Angel Gabriel as a guidance to mankind. According to Islam, Revelations by God has been conveyed to humanity throughout the history of mankind via God's messengers - all the prophets starting from Prophet Adam(PBUH) and then continuing with many other including Noah(PBUH), Abraham(PBUH), Moses(PBUH), Jesus(PBUH) and finally ending with Prophet Muhammad(PBUH).
"Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." (Al Qur'an 2:136)

However, as time went by every time after the prophets left, mankind went astray from the teachings and worship of God to 'worshiping their desires'. Some of it could be due to people becoming rebellious and arrogant or some of it could be because people started coming up with their own ideas as to how to worship God. And generations later there was no way to get back to the original and the same True message of God that all the messengers brought due to lack of preservation of the message. And then God sent the last and final messenger, Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) with the same message confirming the previous messages. And His followers made very meticulous effort (with God's help obviously) to preserve the message for any generations to come. Just some related verses so you know what it says :
"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things." (Al Qur'an 33:40)

"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). We did send messengers before thee among the religious sects of old: But never came a messenger to them but they mocked him." (Al Qur'an 15:9-11)

 

[RabbiO]

If someone said , the meaning of anti-semitic is : include the Arabs , and Aramaics , and Islam and Christianity

Is not that incline/corrupt the meaning of semitic or anti-semitic , to mention just for jews , and judaism !!!?

To repeat myself, the word antisemitism did not exist until someone coined it as a word to describe hatred of Jews. On a technical level, in a vacuum, the meaning of the word might be inaccurate, but that's the way language is sometimes. Nobody I know ever asks what time the sun appears to rise or what time the sun appears to set. One asks what time the sun rises or what time the sun sets even though technically the sun neither rises nor sets.

Using your logic, if a group of Canadians, for example, protested United States policy in some area and someone reported that the Canadians engaged in anti-American activity, the Canadian could/should argue that they could not engage in anti-American policy because they, the Canadians, are Americans - which is technically true because Canada is part of the continent of North America. However, the term American has come to be conected to the United States.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If someone said , the meaning of anti-semitic is : include the Arabs , and Aramaics , and Islam and Christianity

Is not that incline/corrupt the meaning of semitic or anti-semitic , to mention just for jews , and judaism !!!?

Those who claim that the term anti-semitism does or should include negative attitudes about any and all semitic people are engaging in agenda-driven nonsense. Why are you so intent on diluting the intended meaning of the term?

do you mean if someone hate the judaism , it's ok ,but that's depend which verse ?

I have not the slightest idea what you think that sentence means.

 

[brokensymmetry]

I guess you didn't click on the link to the other post of mine. So here it is ....

Here's more detail on
the need for Revelation

So here is the Islamic version as to what this Revelation is. Revelations are God's word sent to Prophets of God through Angel Gabriel as a guidance to mankind. According to Islam, Revelations by God has been conveyed to humanity throughout the history of mankind via God's messengers - all the prophets starting from Prophet Adam(PBUH) and then continuing with many other including Noah(PBUH), Abraham(PBUH), Moses(PBUH), Jesus(PBUH) and finally ending with Prophet Muhammad(PBUH).
"Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him." (Al Qur'an 2:136)

However, as time went by every time after the prophets left, mankind went astray from the teachings and worship of God to 'worshiping their desires'. Some of it could be due to people becoming rebellious and arrogant or some of it could be because people started coming up with their own ideas as to how to worship God. And generations later there was no way to get back to the original and the same True message of God that all the messengers brought due to lack of preservation of the message. And then God sent the last and final messenger, Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) with the same message confirming the previous messages. And His followers made very meticulous effort (with God's help obviously) to preserve the message for any generations to come. Just some related verses so you know what it says :
"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Messenger of Allah, and the Seal of the Prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things." (Al Qur'an 33:40)

"We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). We did send messengers before thee among the religious sects of old: But never came a messenger to them but they mocked him." (Al Qur'an 15:9-11)

I don't that neutralizes the doubts I expressed to you. Nevertheless thanks for sharing why you find it compelling.

 

[loverOfTruth]

I don't that neutralizes the doubts I expressed to you. Nevertheless thanks for sharing why you find it compelling.

You said : "God would wait many thousands of years since humans are around to send a prophet of any sort to just a small group of people and then slowly diffuse that knowledge to a subset of the population"

I have explained (through the last post) how that is not true. God did send messages since the beginning of time till the final message of the Qur'an, which is preserved till today and available for everyone to read.

 

[brokensymmetry]

You said : "God would wait many thousands of years since humans are around to send a prophet of any sort to just a small group of people and then slowly diffuse that knowledge to a subset of the population"

I have explained (through the last post) how that is not true. God did send messages since the beginning of time till the final message of the Qur'an, which is preserved till today and available for everyone to read.

Yes. Having some prophet at various times doesn't really defuse my central concern either. He/she is still talking to a very limited group of people at a time. Besides which, why should anyone believe them? If I am walking down the street and some guy says he's got a message from God for me, why should I take that seriously? It doesn't strike me as a very straightforward sort of thing is what I mean.

 

[loverOfTruth]

Yes. Having some prophet at various times doesn't really defuse my central concern either. He/she is still talking to a very limited group of people at a time.

Not exactly true because the Final Message the Holy Qur'an is there for everyone to examine and read.

Besides which, why should anyone believe them? If I am walking down the street and some guy says he's got a message from God for me, why should I take that seriously? It doesn't strike me as a very straightforward sort of thing is what I mean.

Now that line of questioning is the right approach though...and that's when you start looking for evidences.

There's a reason why the timeless book the Holy qur'an is the greatest miracle of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). How can you be sure that this final revelation(The Holy Qur'an) is what it claims to be (Verbatim word of God) ? Here's a thread where I discussed that in detail: http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...es/129347-there-any-evidence-truth-islam.html

Peace.

 

[brokensymmetry]

Not exactly true because the Final Message the Holy Qur'an is there for everyone to examine and read.


Now that line of questioning is the right approach though...and that's when you start looking for evidences.

There's a reason why the timeless book the Holy qur'an is the greatest miracle of Prophet Muhammad(pbuh). How can you be sure that this final revelation(The Holy Qur'an) is what it claims to be (Verbatim word of God) ? Here's a thread where I discussed that in detail: http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...es/129347-there-any-evidence-truth-islam.html

Peace.

A bunch of religions make these sorts of claims. I have yet to see anything amazingly convincing. Certainly nothing like you get with physical theories, and why shouldn't I expect an evidence threshold at least as good as say, that which convinces me that special relativity is true?

 

[loverOfTruth]

A bunch of religions make these sorts of claims. I have yet to see anything amazingly convincing. Certainly nothing like you get with physical theories, and why shouldn't I expect an evidence threshold at least as good as say, that which convinces me that special relativity is true?

Have you watched the video in the thread ? If not, I highly recommend that you do that before making any judgement. Right ?

 

[brokensymmetry]

Have you watched the video in the thread ? If not, I highly recommend that you do that before making any judgement. Right ?

No, and no thank you. I don't find the claims of Islam likely enough as objective truth to the universe to drop the time into it. Thanks though.

 

[loverOfTruth]

No, and no thank you. I don't find the claims of Islam likely enough as objective truth to the universe to drop the time into it. Thanks though.

Sure, that's your choice - not a problem. But then again you are not being sincere to your quest to finding answers to your OP since you are not willing to give one of the Abrahamic Faiths a decent look. For example, the science you talked about : http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch1.htm. But then again it is your choice. Thanks for the discussion though.

 

[ChristineES]

Alright. Fair enough. So more fulfilling than say, a bare theistic type position?

Before I became a Christian, I looked into other faiths, as well. I believe that my faith gives me more focus than some bare-bones type of faith. Faith doesn't necessarily need any real direction, but without a purpose, it really has no meaning.

 

[roger1440]

At the risk of being repetitive I will post this. I am attempting to vocalize an inquiry I'm still trying to pinpoint so I appreciate anyone willing to dialog with me.

So let me ask this. Why an Abrahamic faith at all? I mean, if you look at the generalized natural theology type of arguments for God's existence, it's a long leap from something like an argument from contingency to God spoke to Abraham and made a chosen nation from him. So what do you think the primary reason is there are so many people who follow an "Abrahamic religion" in the world?

Christians and Muslims have for many centuries gone by the slogan, “convert or die”. Sounds pretty persuasive to me. Hurry, where do I sign up?

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hey there Broken
(Still can't use the initials)

In Islam, Abrahamic religions are called (roughly translated by me) : celestial religions. Meaning, it was created and sent from a supreme creator, not human, from the heavens and has no doubt at all that it was created by a creation. Worshiping the Creator makes more sense to me than worshiping a creation!

I personally believe this is a good answer to the subject question on the topic "Why Abrahamic Religions".

And, God says that he could forgive anything at all other than worshiping someone other than him. Basically this can be achieved in any Abrahamic religion. Yes, to me as a Muslim, I do believe that Jews and Christians can still go to heaven, the Islamic version. I do actually think of them in a special high regard, following the teachings of Islam! (I do also respect non-Abrahamic people of course).

 

[brokensymmetry]

Sure, that's your choice - not a problem. But then again you are not being sincere to your quest to finding answers to your OP since you are not willing to give one of the Abrahamic Faiths a decent look. For example, the science you talked about : A Brief Illustrated Guide To Understanding Islam, Muslims, and the Quran. But then again it is your choice. Thanks for the discussion though.

My 'quest' was to see why others are so motivated. That you really find it persuasive and true for the reasons you outlined does answer my question.

 

[brokensymmetry]

Before I became a Christian, I looked into other faiths, as well. I believe that my faith gives me more focus than some bare-bones type of faith. Faith doesn't necessarily need any real direction, but without a purpose, it really has no meaning.

I am getting that sense from a lot of people actually. The specific content helps give more meaning than otherwise. thanks.

 

[brokensymmetry]

Hey there Broken
(Still can't use the initials)

In Islam, Abrahamic religions are called (roughly translated by me) : celestial religions. Meaning, it was created and sent from a supreme creator, not human, from the heavens and has no doubt at all that it was created by a creation. Worshiping the Creator makes more sense to me than worshiping a creation!

I personally believe this is a good answer to the subject question on the topic "Why Abrahamic Religions".

And, God says that he could forgive anything at all other than worshiping someone other than him. Basically this can be achieved in any Abrahamic religion. Yes, to me as a Muslim, I do believe that Jews and Christians can still go to heaven, the Islamic version. I do actually think of them in a special high regard, following the teachings of Islam! (I do also respect non-Abrahamic people of course).

haha well, the initials don't bug me but I appreciate the though.

Let me ask you this. Couldn't you worship God without any such religion? Suppose you just inferred that God exists through some philosophical arguments, and left it at that?

 

[Smart_Guy]

haha well, the initials don't bug me but I appreciate the though.

Let me ask you this. Couldn't you worship God without any such religion? Suppose you just inferred that God exists through some philosophical arguments, and left it at that?

Hmm, still not convinced to use the initials

Nope, I wouldn't worship Him with out these religions. Because these religions are the reason that I do, simply because He told me to and how to worship Him though it, convinced me of His existence and righteousness, made me the good and blessed person I am now, and promised me so much goodness in the after life!

If I inferred His existence without the existence 100% of these religions, then I would have a choice whether I do worship Him. It is kinda like being kindly up brought and spoiled by my parents without them asking me to do anything for them. I do have a choice to repay them back or not (like not having a religion), but if they asked me to do something (as in having a religion), I would do it because I know what they are to me are and what they did for me.

I hope I made sense up there

 

[brokensymmetry]

Hmm, still not convinced to use the initials

Nope, I wouldn't worship Him with out these religions. Because these religions are the reason that I do, simply because He told me to and how to worship Him though it, convinced me of His existence and righteousness, made me the good and blessed person I am now, and promised me so much goodness in the after life!

If I inferred His existence without the existence 100% of these religions, then I would have a choice whether I do worship Him. It is kinda like being kindly up brought and spoiled by my parents without them asking me to do anything for them. I do have a choice to repay them back or not (like not having a religion), but if they asked me to do something (as in having a religion), I would do it because I know what they are to me are and what they did for me.

I hope I made sense up there

Okay but it seems like we're back at square one then. Why assume God wants all this worship this one particular way? If it's that the religions tell you that, that's going to be circular. I'll ask you why do you think those religions have anything going for them to listen to them.