Which evolved first, tendons or bones

[Windwalker]

Where did I say that evolution is false? how to deny a fact, but it doesn't mean that evolution just happened without a pre-design and a plan.
not able to find the designer doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

Evolution does not do pre-design. If you read my post number 11, I explained how if our bodies were predesigned, it's not very well designed. There is a problem with a view of God like this, as it doesn't match the facts of what we see before us.

 

[shunyadragon]

Go deeper in explaining your point, if I don't get it then at least you do your job to explain it to the others who have excellent background in biology,
how tendons evolved together with bones to enable the flexibility of bones movements, both have no relation to each others, so how both organized
to a specific job, explain it in your own scientific way and let's see what you'll offer.

I can give you an off hand brief readers digest version, but this is limited in understanding for those without any back ground knowledge.

Cartilage, muscle, bone, bony armor, and tendons evolved together in fish as size speed and strength became advantageous for survival in a competitive world. Early fish which are main cartilaginous were the first to develop tendons. The early tendons were linear collagen fibers, which progressively became flat larger tendons. strengthening the muscle attachments, which gives the opportunity for better strength and speed. Cartilage evolved to bone for the advantage of supporting size and strength.

Tendons evolved before bone.

By the way the evolution of eyes follows the same scenario, beginning with simple light sensitive cells to better and more complex eyes had distinct survival value in both predators and prey in the race for survival.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Where did I say that evolution is false? how to deny a fact, but it doesn't mean that evolution just happened without a pre-design and a plan.
not able to find the designer doesn't mean he doesn't exist.

Is it your position that God created the universe and as a result man evolved.

 

[FearGod]

I can give you an off hand brief readers digest version, but this is limited in understanding for those without any back ground knowledge.

Cartilage, muscle, bone, bony armor, and tendons evolved together in fish as size speed and strength became advantageous for survival in a competitive world. Early fish which are main cartilaginous were the first to develop tendons. The early tendons were linear collagen fibers, which progressively became flat larger tendons. strengthening the muscle attachments, which gives the opportunity for better strength and speed. Cartilage evolved to bone for the advantage of supporting size and strength.

Tendons evolved before bone.

By the way the evolution of eyes follows the same scenario, beginning with simple light sensitive cells to better and more complex eyes had distinct survival value in both predators and prey in the race for survival.

How they evolved separately and together were organized to a meaningful job if not designed to be so.

 

[shunyadragon]

How they evolved separately and together were organized to a meaningful job if not designed to be so.

Not a meaningful question. Design or no design is off the table is we are discussing the actual evidence for evolution, because it is a philosophical/theological question that science cannot address, Each has an advantage in the progressive evolution as fish get larger, stronger and faster in the competition for survival.

You need to look a little deeper at your citation of Michel de Montaigne

 

[FearGod]

Is it your position that God created the universe and as a result man evolved.

My position that Humans is a part of God's plan, and yes by evolution.

 

[shunyadragon]

My position that Humans is a part of God's plan, and yes by evolution.

Then there is little reason to argue design versus no design in terms of the science of evolution.

I also believe in God and evolution, and the scientific explanation for evolution is a natural one.

To add, the appearance of striated muscles begins with jelly fish. Sponges do not have muscles, but they have muscle myosin which helps them move. Other primitive simple animals develop striated muscles, but possibly independent of Jelly fish.

 

[FearGod]

Not a meaningful question. Design or no design is off the table is we are discussing the actual evidence for evolution, because it is a philosophical/theological question that science cannot address, Each has an advantage in the progressive evolution as fish get larger, stronger and faster in the competition for survival.

You need to look a little deeper at your citation of Michel de Montaigne

Competition for survival, that was a good explanation for how they evolved and organized together, that's tautology,
doesn't make sense to me, sorry.

 

[Kev100504]

the Sperm and the egg are designed to combine to produce a new creation, not seeing how the designer made things to work doesn't mean he
doesn't exist.

What is so inteligent about designing a hole where you breath and eat from? Or putting pleaasure zones inside a sewer system....or not being able to reach certain parts of your body to tend wyounds....the vertbrae and hip structure is a terrible design.......how come some races can withstand sun exposure better than others? Go ahead and believe in your design fantasy but leave intelligent out of it...literally billions of examples in nature that are very poor designs...you should expect more from your invisible man who has the ability to create the entire universe

 

[FearGod]

Then there is little reason to argue design versus o design in terms of the science of evolution.

I also believe in God and evolution, and the scientific explanation for evolution is a natural one,

Do you believe that evolution was planned by God?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

My position that Humans is a part of God's plan, and yes by evolution.

Ok.

 

[FearGod]

What is so inteligent about designing a hole where you breath and eat from? Or putting pleaasure zones inside a sewer system....or not being able to reach certain parts of your body to tend wyounds....the vertbrae and hip structure is a terrible design.......how come some races can withstand sun exposure better than others? Go ahead and believe in your design fantasy but leave intelligent out of it...literally billions of examples in nature that are very poor designs...you should expect more from your invisible man who has the ability to create the entire universe

Do you think that your body is that simple that can't be a product of a designer or do you think the designer isn't very intelligent?

 

[shunyadragon]

Competition for survival, that was a good explanation for how they evolved and organized together, that's tautology,
doesn't make sense to me, sorry.

First, not organized (bad term in this case?) together. Second, this is misuse of tautology. There is nothing repetitive involving the evolving anatomy of muscle, bones, cartilage, and tendons.

The purpose of the science of evolution, like all sciences, is not to 'make sense.'

 

[Kev100504]

Then there is little reason to argue design versus o design in terms of the science of evolution.

I also believe in God and evolution, and the scientific explanation for evolution is a natural one,

How can you believe in evolution and the bible? Are you hedging your bets on God?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Competition for survival, that was a good explanation for how they evolved and organized together, that's tautology,
doesn't make sense to me, sorry.

Clearly.

 

[Kev100504]

Do you think that your body is that simple that can't be a product of a designer or do you think the designer isn't very intelligent?

No....im saying its random and design has nothing to do with it....just look at the variety in our species alone. color...size...physical advantages etc etc etc...evolution could not be nore clear....do you think the infinite variation in our species came from 2 created humans?

 

[FearGod]

First, not organized (bad term in this case?) together. Second, this is misuse of tautology. There is nothing repetitive involving the evolving anatomy of muscle, bones, cartilage, and tendons.

The purpose of the science of evolution, like all sciences, is not to 'make sense.'

Competition for survival, that's tautology.
you don't explain how it happened, you only make an empty reply, all happened to evolve together and it worked, they survived and
their genes passed to the next generations.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

How can you believe in evolution and the bible? Are you hedging your bets on God?

I believe in natural history through observation. I believe the Bible by faith.

 

[David T]

Tendons connect bones together in away that enable us to have flexible movements, the
way that bones are connected together is a sign of a design and not a blind evolution, if
you think that tendons and bones were a result of mutations and natural selections then
please explain how both evolved together to achieve such an amazing job.

There are 2 hyper modern, hyper primative perspectives about nature.

One perspective stares out onto nature and asks how out of the fog of random chaos do rocks emerge, and concludes they self organise.

The second perspective stares out onto nature and asks how out of the fog of random chaos do rocks emerge, and concludes the intellect organised it.

I see no difference between the two so what's your question exactly.? Both hold the intellect as divining or divination.

 

[Kev100504]

I believe in natural history through observation. I believe the Bible by faith.

Fa

I believe in natural history through observation. I believe the Bible by faith.

So you believe in natural history through "observation"...but you dont need to "observe" the extraoridnary claim of God to believe in it? Makes sense?...If you were being tried in a court of law and were inoocent...would you want your jury to utilize obseravtion and evidence or render your verdict off faith?