WHERE IS THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS GOD'S 4th COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED?

[Subduction Zone]

What is the difference between the DNA of a worm and of man? Do they have the same creator?

Why would either need a creator?

Why does the idea of being an ape bother you so much? If you understood the massive evidence supporting evolution then you would realize that you have two choices. Either man is a product of evolution, or God is a liar. When I was a Christian I did not believe that God was a liar so I accepted evolution.

 

[3rdAngel]

You must have misunderstood what I was saying. I said " a hue", not that you were saying it.

Well, the fact is Kenny I was not saying any such thing and neither do I believe and such thing. Please do not suggest that I do.

The point is simple... Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, he is the fulfillment of the year of Jubilee Sabbath; God didn't go back to work on the 8th day: I have entered into the rest of God... every day.But I support your position of wanting to honor God on the Jewish Sabbath.

According to the scriptures. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath because he is the creator of the Sabbath that he made for all mankind (Mark 2:27-28) and commands us to keep as a holy day of rest in Exodus 20:8-11; Hebrews 4:9 etc. According to the scriptures there is no 8th day and no one enters into Gods seventh day Sabbath rest if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says. This is the warning given in Hebrews 3:9-19 and Hebrews 4:1-11 and the Sabbath is not everyday but every seventh day of the week according to Exodus 20:10. There is not a single scriptures in all the bible that says Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 and Hebrews 3:8-19; Hebrews 4:1-11. According to Romans 3:4 only Gods Words are true and we should believe and follow them. Jesus did not make the Sabbath so that we are now free to break the Sabbath. According to the scriptures, not believing and obeying what Gods Word says is sin (see Romans 14:23; 1 John 3:4; Matthew 7:21-23; John 3:36).

Take care.

 

[Sedim Haba]

You are claiming the bible translators, over the centuries, have all got the Genesis story wrong, then.

What did they get wrong, in your opinion, and how des that affect whether we should read it as allegorical or not?

They got it wrong because they don't understand the hidden meanings in the Hebrew.

 

[Sedim Haba]

Mark 10:27 (there is always hope)

'Hope springs eternal'. I think it's sunk cost fallacy. Waste of time to try to make them 'see the light'.

The antchrist has won, and the Xians are in thrall. See how they rage at the very thought of Torah?

They are diametrically opposed to Torah, and to HaShem. It's pointless to even try because of this.

But. more importantly, Matthew 7:6

“Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces."

Yes, that's harsh, but it's what they are. Always have been, always will be.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Thanks anyway @Hockeycowboy. I have studied this in detail. Have a look at the scripture context of Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2. Acts 15 is over the question is circumcision from the law of Moses a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers. The question being discussed at Jerusalem was never over thte question is Gods 10 commandments still the standard of sin and righteousness and the standard of godly living through faith in Christ. That interpretation of the scriptures has Paul in contradiction with Paul and the rest of the bible when he says sometime later after the decision at Jerusalem to the Corinthian gentile believers in 1 Corinthians 7:19 "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God. You may want to revisit what you believe.

Take Care.

Greetings, my cousin…

Circumcision was a ‘Commandment of God’….for the Israelites. It was a part of their Mosaic Law. A big part!
But the body of apostles and older men issued a decree, found at Acts of the Apostles 15 28-29, negating the need to observe circumcision.
They said, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to impose on you no further burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

By saying circumcision was no longer needed, they were effectively saying the Mosaic Law, which included the 10 Commandments, was not binding on Christians.

Because you see, ‘loving God & loving your neighbor as yourself’ (Matthew 22:37-39) covers the 10 Commandments… love will not allow a person to “steal…commit murder…covet.” Etc.

Those “essentials”, though, were required.

mom sure you’d agree, we should meditate on Scripture everyday… it’s a lifestyle, not a “one-day-a-week” duty.

Best wishes.

 

[Sedim Haba]

But the body of apostles and older men issued a decree, found at Acts of the Apostles 15 28-29, negating the need to observe circumcision.
They said, “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to impose on you no further burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.”

By saying circumcision was no longer needed, they were effectively saying the Mosaic Law, which included the 10 Commandments, was not binding on Christians.

Do you even understand this? The laws enumerated are part or the seven Noahide laws, which Xians routinely ignore. Especially the blood. Not even try. And who are these 'apostles and older men' to negate anything? Much less Torah?
Even if it's for dogs & swine?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Do you even understand this? The laws enumerated are part or the seven Noahide laws, which Xians routinely ignore. Especially the blood. Not even try. And who are these 'apostles and older men' to negate anything? Much less Torah?
Even if it's for dogs & swine?

It wasn’t necessary for Christians. The Apostles didn’t negate it for Jews… they had no authority over them.
And regarding abstaining from blood… I’m one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. We do.

 

[exchemist]

They got it wrong because they don't understand the hidden meanings in the Hebrew.

OK, so what are those hidden meanings, then, and how would they invalidate the allegorical interpretation?

 

[Apostle John]

How do the Biblical interpreters attain the expertise they need to do the interpreting?

The Holy Spirit has helped me.

 

[Kenny]

Well, the fact is Kenny I was not saying any such thing and neither do I believe and such thing. Please do not suggest that I do.

According to the scriptures. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath because he is the creator of the Sabbath that he made for all mankind (Mark 2:27-28) and commands us to keep as a holy day of rest in Exodus 20:8-11; Hebrews 4:9 etc. According to the scriptures there is no 8th day and no one enters into Gods seventh day Sabbath rest if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says. This is the warning given in Hebrews 3:9-19 and Hebrews 4:1-11 and the Sabbath is not everyday but every seventh day of the week according to Exodus 20:10. There is not a single scriptures in all the bible that says Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 and Hebrews 3:8-19; Hebrews 4:1-11. According to Romans 3:4 only Gods Words are true and we should believe and follow them. Jesus did not make the Sabbath so that we are now free to break the Sabbath. According to the scriptures, not believing and obeying what Gods Word says is sin (see Romans 14:23; 1 John 3:4; Matthew 7:21-23; John 3:36).

Take care.

And you conveniently skip the question.

Did God work on the 8th day.

 

[Brian2]

That is not true at all Brian, Circumcision is from the law of Moses and is a Mosaic law given by God. So is animal sacrifices and sin offerings, as well as the Levitical Priesthood and Sanctuary laws for atonement of sin, all of which are shadow laws fulfilled in Christ pointing to Jesus in the new covenant as Gods sacrifice for the sins of the world and Gods new covenant promise in Jeremiah 31:31-36 representing circumcision of the heart through the Spirit to obey Gods law through a new heart that loves.

The law of Moses was written by Moses under Gods direction in the book of the covenant (Exodus 24:7) and it is not the same as Gods law (the 10 commandments) that was written on two tables of stone by the finger of God alone. Gods 10 commandments are never called the law of Moses in the bible. They are called Gods law (Nehemiah 10:28-29) which was given to Moses to give to the people.

Why do you say that Nehemiah 10:28-29 is referring to the 10 commandment?

Now let's add back in the CONTEXT you have left out of ACTS 15

• ACTS 15:1:21 [1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, EXCEPT YOU BE CIRCUMCISED AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES YOU CANNOT BE SAVED.

NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new GENTILES believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context and issue of contention.

• [2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, THEY DETERMINED THAT PAUL AND BARNABAS AND CERTAIN OF THEM SHOULD GO UP TO JERUSALEM UNTO THE APOSLTLES AND ELDERS ABOUT THIS QUESTION.

NOTE: ACTS 15:2 Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED. They then travelled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharisees stating their case first..

• [5], But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees who believed, saying, It is needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

NOTE: KEEP in mind here the question was never over if gentile believers should obey God's 10 Commandments but to keep the Shadow laws of Moses, in this case CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. CIRCUMCIONS is from the law of MOSES not God’s 10 Commandments written by God on two tables of stone.

• [6], And the apostles and elders came together TO CONSIDER THIS MATTER.

NOTE: Again the topic of discussion and chapter CONTEXT that is being considered is the question stated in ACTS 15:1 which was IS CIRCUMCISION A REQUIREMENT OF SALVATION?

• [7], And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, you know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

• [8], And God, who knows the hearts, bore them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did unto us;

NOTE: After much discussion between the Apostles, Peter then rose up showing that God gave the gentile believers the Holy Spirit being UNCIRCUMCISED.

• [9], And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
• [10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
• [11], But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Acts 15: 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. 6 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”
6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter.

So the question under consideration is whether the gentile Christians who had not been told to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses, should be told this.

[10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

What Peter said in verse 10 show that it was not just about circumcision.

If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Pauls writings in to the CORINTHIANS do not make any sense.

• 1 CORINTHIANS 7 [19] CIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING, BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD.

The scripture above is a contradiction of how some interpret the outcome of ACTS 15. You do not believe Brian, that we are now free to break any of God's 10 Commandments now do you?

It is plainly about more than circumcision, it is also about keeping the law of Moses.
But now you are again breaking the 10 commandments off the law and saying that they are the commandments of God and the rest of the law are not.
But the first and second most important commandments are not in the 10 commandments. (See Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18)

 

[Brian2]

NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here... ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD.
If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Pauls writings in to the CORINTHIANS do not make any sense.
1Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commandments is what counts.

https://biblehub.com/greek/1785.htm

Romans 2:25-27 is not specifically about Gentile Christians but can be about any Gentiles in general.
All these can keep the righteousness of the law without circumcision and without even knowing the law.
This shows that the requirements of the law that God wants has nothing to do with things in the law that you would have to know in order to do (such as keeping holy the sabbath day by not working).

Romans 2:14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

If we look at Leviticus we see the 7th day sabbath is there and you say that is part of the shadow law.
I bet we could find all the 10 commandments in the shadow law which you say points to Christ.
But anyway, how does a gentile keep the requirements of the law without even knowing the law?

NOTE: JAMES conclusion is that new Gentile believers should not be troubled with CIRCUMCISION as a requirement of salvation which was the matter being considered and the question being discussion as shown in *ACTS 15:1-2; ACTS 15:6 but asks them to abstain from idols, fornication and from things strangled and from blood.

• [21], FOR MOSES OF OLD TIME HAS IN EVERY CITY THEM THAT PREACH HIM, BEING READ IN THE SYNAGOGUES EVERY SABBATH.

NOTE: The reason why JAMES sends this letter to the new Gentile believers is that they would continue learning God's WORD EVERY SABBATH.

Yes I think James would like the gentiles to learn the law and the things that God wants, but that does not mean that they will obey all those things to the letter. So you seem to be saying that because the Jews keep the Sabbath and Moses is read every Sabbath that this is teaching that the Gentile Christians were expected to keep the Sabbath also. But you cannot show where that is taught as part of the gospel. What we do have is a decision that the gentiles should not be told to be circumcised or that they must keep the Law.

Lets now look at your contradiction in the interpretation of Acts 15. If you are applying Gods 10 commandments to Acts 15 you are contradicting pretty much the whole bible and Jesus that says think not that I have come to destroy the law and the prophets I have not come to destroy them but obey them (Matthew 5:17); By applying Acts 15 to Gods 10 commandments does not make any sense because you are

1. Denying the scripture context that says that what was being discussed in Jerusalem was the question "Is circumcision a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers (Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2)
2. Claiming that Acts 15 is teaching that Gods 10 commandments are abolished is proven false because the scriptures state the reason for the decision over circumcision was that the new gentile believers would be continuing to learn from the scriptures every Sabbath (Acts 15:21)
3. Paul and the Apostles continuing to keep the Sabbath right after the council of Jerusalem (Acts of the Apostles 17:2).
4. Paul taught the new Corinthians gentile believers after the decision of Jerusalem that circumcision is no longer a requirement but keeping of the commandments of God is a requirement for gentile believers (1 Corinthians 7:19)?

CONCLUSION So the conclusion of the matter with CONTEXT added back in is found in v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts that will learn more about GOD'S WORD when? EVERY SABBATH. In the meantime you should abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication.

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you.

In the letter sent to the Gentile Christians there is no mention of going to the synagogue every Sabbath to learn the law but as I said, I think James would like that the learned God's word that was read in the synagogues on Sabbaths. (and not just the 7th day Sabbaths) so to facilitate that mixing of Jews and Gentiles the Gentiles would need to obey a minimum, the Noahide laws, so the Jews would not feel forced to separate themselves and maybe kick the gentiles out of the synagogues. This also facilitated the ability of the Jewish Christians to be able to overcome their scruples and to mix with and accept their Gentile brothers and sisters who had also been saved through the grace of God because the law has been taken out of the way by Jesus.
You seem to be blind to the fact that Act 15 is about more than being circumcised. Do you recognise that?
You also want the "Commandments of God" to refer specifically to the 10 commandments when there is nothing to say that is the case.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑ According to the scriptures. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath because he is the creator of the Sabbath that he made for all mankind (Mark 2:27-28) and commands us to keep as a holy day of rest in Exodus 20:8-11; Hebrews 4:9 etc. According to the scriptures there is no 8th day and no one enters into Gods seventh day Sabbath rest if they do not believe and obey what Gods Word says. This is the warning given in Hebrews 3:9-19 and Hebrews 4:1-11 and the Sabbath is not everyday but every seventh day of the week according to Exodus 20:10. There is not a single scriptures in all the bible that says Gods 4th commandment of the 10 commandments has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word to break the commandments of God against the very warnings of Jesus in Matthew 15:3-9 and Hebrews 3:8-19; Hebrews 4:1-11. According to Romans 3:4 only Gods Words are true and we should believe and follow them. Jesus did not make the Sabbath so that we are now free to break the Sabbath. According to the scriptures, not believing and obeying what Gods Word says is sin (see Romans 14:23; 1 John 3:4; Matthew 7:21-23; John 3:36).

Your response here...

And you conveniently skip the question.
Did God work on the 8th day.

Please be honest in our discussion Kenny what you are posting is not true. What question did I skip? I answered your question already. There is no 8th day. There is only a seven day week that is repeated on a weekly cycle from the seven day creation week of Genesis 1:1-31 to Genesis 2:1-3. This means there are only seven days in a week not eight. What you are posting is not scriptural and makes no sense.

 

[Kenny]

Your response here...

Please be honest in our discussion Kenny what you are posting is not true. What question did I skip? I answered your question already. There is no 8th day. There is only a seven day week that is repeated on a weekly cycle from the seven day creation week of Genesis 1:1-31 to Genesis 2:1-3. This means there are only seven days in a week not eight. What you are posting is not scriptural and makes no sense.

If, then, there is no 8th day... then, as I noted, the "rest" is the "eternal rest" that we have in Christ Jesus and then Colossians 2, Romans 14 as well as the 4th Commandment as well as all the other scriptures you mentioned are fulfilled in the Lord of the Sabbath.

Whereas if I took your position you have violated both Colossians as well as Romans 14.

 

[3rdAngel]

Acts 15: 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. 6 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.” 6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. So the question under consideration is whether the gentile Christians who had not been told to be circumcised and keep the law of Moses, should be told this. [10], Now therefore why test God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? What Peter said in verse 10 show that it was not just about circumcision.

Here is the context you are leaving out here. Gods Word does not teach lawlessness and there is no where in Acts 15 that says gentile believe no longer have to keep Gods 10 commandments. That interpretation disagrees with the whole bible. The reason for Acts 15 is stated in the context you disregard and that is that the Jews were claiming that new Gentile believers had to be circumcised to keep the law of Moses in order to receive Gods salvation as already posted to you in Acts 15:1-2.

Now let's add back in the CONTEXT you have left out of ACTS 15

• ACTS 15:1:21 [1], And certain men who came down from Judea taught the brethren, and said, EXCEPT YOU BE CIRCUMCISED AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES YOU CANNOT BE SAVED.

NOTE: ACTS 15:1 is the question that needs to be answered and the topic of conversation and CONTEXT of the chapter of ACTS 15. Here we have Jewish believers coming to Paul and Barnabas saying if the new GENTILES believers are not circumcised and made proselytes then they cannot be saved. This is the chapter context and issue of contention.

• [2], When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, THEY DETERMINED THAT PAUL AND BARNABAS AND CERTAIN OF THEM SHOULD GO UP TO JERUSALEM UNTO THE APOSTLES AND ELDERS ABOUT THIS QUESTION.

NOTE: ACTS 15:2 Which question? Weather your salvation depends on being CIRCUMCISED. They then traveled to Jerusalem about this question to determine if new gentile believers needed to be CIRCUMCISED in order to be saved. Once they got to Jerusalem, the question was then asked and the discussion continued with the Pharisees stating their case first..

It is plainly about more than circumcision, it is also about keeping the law of Moses. But now you are again breaking the 10 commandments off the law and saying that they are the commandments of God and the rest of the law are not. But the first and second most important commandments are not in the 10 commandments. (See Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18)

Instead of trying to read into the scriptures what is not written in the scriptures I prefer to just believe what the scripture says and the scripture say that certain Jews come to the new gentile believers and said to them "EXCEPT YOU BE CIRCUMCISED AFTER THE MANNER OF MOSES YOU CANNOT BE SAVED? (Acts of the Apostles 15:1). From here Paul and Barnabas went up to Jerusalem to the other Apostles and elders to discuss this question (Acts of the Apostles 15:2). That is what the bible says word for word. You do not have to read into Acts 15 that it is talking about the 10 commandments because it is not and there is no where in Acts 15 where it says it is saying that new Gentile believers no longer have to keep Gods 10 commandments. You are reading that into the scripture. That interpretation is a doctrine of devils and the opposite to what the whole bible teaches. Seriously Brian your not trying to argue here now that we care now free to go and lie, steal, murder and commit adultery now are you? That belief would disagree with the whole bible and I suggest you might re-evaluate what it is you actually believe.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

3rdAngel said: ↑ NOTE: They came to the conclusion then that salvation is not by being circumcised but be what circumcision pointed to. A new heart by faith. This is made plain latter in other scripture written by PAUL here... ROMANS 2 [25] For circumcision verily profits, if you keep the law: but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision is made uncircumcision. [26], Therefore if the uncircumcision keeps the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? [27], And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfils the law, judge you, who by the letter and circumcision do transgress the law? [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW, WHO IS ONE; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OF THE OUTWARD FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; AND CIRCUMCISION IS THAT OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE LETTER; WHOSE PRAISE IS NOT OF MEN BUT OF GOD. If ACTS 15 was talking about the 10 Commandments then Pauls writings in to the CORINTHIANS do not make any sense. 1Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing. Keeping God’s commandments is what counts.

Your response here...

Romans 2:25-27 is not specifically about Gentile Christians but can be about any Gentiles in general. All these can keep the righteousness of the law without circumcision and without even knowing the law. This shows that the requirements of the law that God wants has nothing to do with things in the law that you would have to know in order to do (such as keeping holy the sabbath day by not working). Romans 2:14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Brian I think you missed the point as to why Romans 2:26-29 was posted. I was not posting these scriptures as a reference to Gentiles but as a reference to what a true Jew represents in Gods new covenant and what true circumcision represents. Circumcision represents a change of heart. It represents a new heart to love and obey God. If you follow Romans 3:8-23 you will see that Paul is making the argument that both Jewish and Gentile believers are all sinners and in need of Gods salvation. So what you are posting here is not relevant to our discussion.

If we look at Leviticus we see the 7th day sabbath is there and you say that is part of the shadow law. I bet we could find all the 10 commandments in the shadow law which you say points to Christ. But anyway, how does a gentile keep the requirements of the law without even knowing the law?

There is where you are in error. There is no scripture anywhere in the bible that says Gods 10 commandments are shadow laws. You are mixing up the old covenant laws for atonement and remission of sins with Gods moral laws that are included in both the old and the new covenant that give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing when obeyed) and evil (moral wrong doing when disobeyed); sin (breaking Gods law) and righteousness (obeying God's law) *see Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. According to James in James 2:10-11 if we break anyone of Gods 10 commandments including Gods seventh day Sabbath we stand guilty before God of sin and breaking all of Gods law. According to Hebrews 10:26-31 if we continue in known unrepentant sin after God gives us a knowledge of what His truth is then we are in danger of the judgement to come.

Yes I think James would like the gentiles to learn the law and the things that God wants, but that does not mean that they will obey all those things to the letter. So you seem to be saying that because the Jews keep the Sabbath and Moses is read every Sabbath that this is teaching that the Gentile Christians were expected to keep the Sabbath also. But you cannot show where that is taught as part of the gospel. What we do have is a decision that the gentiles should not be told to be circumcised or that they must keep the Law.

No I have said no such thing and yes I can show everything that I have shared with you as part of the Gospel which if you notice I have been doing all through our discussion by providing scripture for everything I have been sharing with you. If you have been reading what I have been sharing here in this OP you would know that what I am saying is that Gods 10 commandments are all a part of the gospel. They lead us to Christ as sinners so that we can receive Gods forgiveness through faith in Christ (see Galatians 3:22-25). Gods new covenant promise is God writing His law on our hearts through love as we by faith choose to believe and follow what Gods Word says (see Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27). God writes His laws on the fleshly tables of our heart through His Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:3-11) so we can now be born again in the Spirit to be free to love and obey His law (see John 3:3-7; compare 1 John 3:4-10; Romans 6:1-23; Galatians 5:16; Romans 3:31; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 5:2-3; John 14:15; John 15:10. The new covenant promise results in Gods people obeying Gods law as a fruit of their faith not breaking Gods law (see James 2:13-16; 1 John 2:3-4; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14). Sin (breaking Gods law) and righteousness (obeying Gods law) is the difference between the children of the devil (sin) and the children of God (obedience) *see 1 John 3:6-10 and 1 John 2:3-4.

In the letter sent to the Gentile Christians there is no mention of going to the synagogue every Sabbath to learn the law but as I said, I think James would like that the learned God's word that was read in the synagogues on Sabbaths. (and not just the 7th day Sabbaths) so to facilitate that mixing of Jews and Gentiles the Gentiles would need to obey a minimum, the Noahide laws, so the Jews would not feel forced to separate themselves and maybe kick the gentiles out of the synagogues. This also facilitated the ability of the Jewish Christians to be able to overcome their scruples and to mix with and accept their Gentile brothers and sisters who had also been saved through the grace of God because the law has been taken out of the way by Jesus.

That is not true at all. Here is the reason given for the decision at Jerusalem.

ACTS 15

• [19], THEREFORE MY JUDGMENT IS THAT WE TROUBLE NOT THEM WHO FROM THE GENTILES ARE TURNED TO GOD:
• [20], BUT WRITE UNTO THEM THAT THEY ABSTAIN FROM THE DEFILEMENT OF IDOLS, FORNICATION AND THINGS STRANGLED AND FROM BLOOD.

NOTE: JAMES conclusion is that new Gentile believers should not be troubled with CIRCUMCISION as a requirement of salvation which was the matter being considered and the question being discussion as shown in *ACTS 15:1-2; ACTS 15:6 but asks them to abstain from idols, fornication and from things strangled and from blood.

• [21], FOR MOSES OF OLD TIME HAS IN EVERY CITY THEM THAT PREACH HIM, BEING READ IN THE SYNAGOGUES EVERY SABBATH.

NOTE: The reason why JAMES sends this letter to the new Gentile believers is that they would continue learning God's WORD EVERY SABBATH.

The above scriptures were posted in the very post you where quoting from the reason for the decision at Jerusalem was given in Acts of the Apostles 15:21 FOR MOSES OF OLD TIME HAS IN EVERY CITY THEM THAT PREACH HIM, BEING READ IN THE SYNAGOGUES EVERY SABBATH.

You seem to be blind to the fact that Act 15 is about more than being circumcised. Do you recognize that? You also want the "Commandments of God" to refer specifically to the 10 commandments when there is nothing to say that is the case.

You are blind to the fact that no where in Acts 15 does it say anywhere that it is talking about God's 10 commandments. Let me ask you again Brian, do you really believe that Acts 15 is saying that all Christians are now free to go our and lie, steal, murder, commit adultery? That teaching is a doctrine of devils and is not supported anywhere in the entire bible. I suggest that you re-evaluate what you believe if that is your view.

Lets now look at your contradiction in the interpretation of Acts 15. If you are applying Gods 10 commandments to Acts 15 you are contradicting pretty much the whole bible and Jesus that says think not that I have come to destroy the law and the prophets I have not come to destroy them but obey them (Matthew 5:17); By applying Acts 15 to Gods 10 commandments does not make any sense because you are

1. Denying the scripture context that says that what was being discussed in Jerusalem was the question "Is circumcision a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers (Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2)
2. Claiming that Acts 15 is teaching that Gods 10 commandments are abolished is proven false because the scriptures state the reason for the decision over circumcision was that the new gentile believers would be continuing to learn from the scriptures every Sabbath (Acts 15:21)
3. Paul and the Apostles continuing to keep the Sabbath right after the council of Jerusalem (Acts of the Apostles 17:2).
4. Paul taught the new Corinthians gentile believers after the decision of Jerusalem that circumcision is no longer a requirement but keeping of the commandments of God is a requirement for gentile believers (1 Corinthians 7:19)?

CONCLUSION So the conclusion of the matter with CONTEXT added back in is found in v19-20 We are not to trouble the new gentile believers with CIRCUMCISION as a means of salvation. They are new converts that will learn more about GOD'S WORD when? EVERY SABBATH. In the meantime you should abstain from anything offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication.

Sorry brother God's WORD disagrees with you and no where does the bible teach a doctrine of lawlessness which is what you are promoting here.

Take Care.

 

[3rdAngel]

If, then, there is no 8th day... then, as I noted, the "rest" is the "eternal rest" that we have in Christ Jesus and then Colossians 2, Romans 14 as well as the 4th Commandment as well as all the other scriptures you mentioned are fulfilled in the Lord of the Sabbath.

Whereas if I took your position you have violated both Colossians as well as Romans 14.

Your repeating yourself again Kenny without addressing anything in the post you are responding to that is in disagreement with you. Everything your posting here has been addressed with a detailed scripture response that you refuse to address.

1. There is no 8th day. There is only a seven day week that is repeated on a weekly cycle from the seven day creation week of Genesis 1:1-31 to Genesis 2:1-3. This means there are only seven days in a week not eight. What you are posting is not scriptural and makes no sense. The week is made up of seven days and moves from one week to the next after every seventh day (Sabbath) on a continuous weekly cycle.

2. Colossians 2 says no where that Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus

3. Romans 14 says no where that it is talking about Gods 4th commandment. You have to read that into the scripture to come up with that interpretation. Romans 14 is about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other day. (nothing to do with Gods 4th commandment). *see post # 97 linked you ignored it.​

Lets test all things with the scriptures Kenny. Gods Word does not teach lawlessness. Lets not pretend that it does.

Take Care.

 

[Kenny]

Your repeating yourself again Kenny without addressing anything in the post you are responding to that is in disagreement with you. Everything your posting here has been addressed with a detailed scripture response that you refuse to address.

1. There is no 8th day. There is only a seven day week that is repeated on a weekly cycle from the seven day creation week of Genesis 1:1-31 to Genesis 2:1-3. This means there are only seven days in a week not eight. What you are posting is not scriptural and makes no sense. The week is made up of seven days and moves from one week to the next after every seventh day (Sabbath) on a continuous weekly cycle.

2. Colossians 2 says no where that Gods 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest in honor of the resurrection of Jesus

3. Romans 14 says no where that it is talking about Gods 4th commandment. You have to reabd that into the scripture to come up with that interpretation. Romans 14 is about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other day. (nothing to do with Gods 4th commandment). *see post # 97 linked you ignored it.​

Lets test all things with the scriptures Kenny. Gods Word does not teach lawlessness. Lets not pretend that it does.

Take Care.

OK... I disagree completely in as much as you are saying something that doesn't negate my position.

Romans 14 is about that which is not of faith is sin; Colossians commands us not to judge people on the 4th Commandment; Hebrews talks about the eternal rest of the 7th day; and, as you noted, there is no 8th day for those who are in Christ.

So with this I conclude with the eternal truth of "Please feel free to worship God on the Sabbath" - I choose to make every day a Sabbath as unto the Lord as I see it fulfilled in Christ of which I am of His body.



Take care, I love you in the love of the Lord, let's go spread the Gospel.

 

[101G]

According to the scriptures love is not separated from Gods law.

it fulfills it. just like if you hire a contractor to build you a house, when he, or she finish, the contract is fulfilled. the same with LOVE, when Love is achieved, it fulfils the CONTRACT of the Lasw. that's why God himself said by his apostle Paul in 1 Timothy 1:9a "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for...............". once we achieve, or Love ONE Another then the Law for us is NO MORE. it has been fulfilled.

Love is expressed by obeying God's law from a new heart that has been born again into Gods new covenant promise to walk in Gods Spirit through faith in Gods Word

see again, Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

When we LOVE GOD and our NEIGHBOR it is expressed through our actions.

If we LOVE our neighbour...

• Will we honor our parents?
• Will we not murder?
• Will we not commit adultery with our neighbor's spouse?
• Will we not steal from them?
• Will we not lie to them?

is this not fulfilled also in Micah 6:8?

James and John all agree that love is not separate from God's law it is expressed in obedience to Gods' law and breaking God's law shows we do not love God or our fellow man and stand guilty before God of sin *1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11.....

• Will we not covet what they own?

If we LOVE our God...

• Will we not have other Gods?
• Will we not make idols and worship them?
• Will we not take his name [follow] him in vain?
• Will we remember his seventh day Sabbath and keep it holy?

here we must disagree, sin/disobedience do not mean one do not LOVE God. No, if one continue in disobedience, chastisement is in order. understand disobedience is only broken fellowship, but not broken Relationship. now listen to this, Romans 8:38 "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come," Romans 8:39 "Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." see that word DEATH there, is (SIN). why do 101G say this, because the WAGES of SIN is DEATH. see, even SIN cannot separate us from God. why? because if one REPENT, and is baptized one enter a BINDING COVENANT, just as God said in Jeremiah 31:31-34.HE WILL FORGIVE OUR SIN, all of them,. see 1 John 1:8-10/

• ROMANS 3:31, Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: YES, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.

and why JOHN says;

• 2 JOHN 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.

his commandments. John 13:34 "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." John 13:35 "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

and again here;

• 1 JOHN 5:2-3 [2], BY THIS WE KNOW THAT WE LOVE THE CHILDREN OF GOD, WHEN WE LOVE GOD AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS [3], FOR THE IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: and his commandments are not grievous.

and is why it is written;

• 1 JOHN 2:3-4 [3], And HEREBY WE KNOW THAT WE KNOW HIM IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS. [4], HE THAT SAYS I KNOW HIM AND DOES NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

• 1 JOHN 3:6 WHOSOEVER ABIDES IN HIM SINS NOT: WHOSOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM

• 1 JOHN 3:9 [9], WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

• 1 JOHN 5:18 [18] We know that WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD SINS NOT; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one touches him not.

answer to this, stay in 1 John, 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ THAT AGAIN, AND AGAIN,,,, AND A FEW MORE TIMES). 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, (THIS IS HOW ONE WAY ONE STAY SINLESS) _and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:10 "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

and why JESUS says;

• JOHN 14:15 [15] IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS

see all above

This is why Jesus says "On these two commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets"

understand, when the Lord Jesus said that he was under the OT covenant. he have not yet died.

1 JOHN 2:3-4 3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4, He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Practice make perfect, for 101G, he have not finish with me yet, for he's the author and finisher of my Faith. 101G is a work in progress.

be blessed of God.


101G.

 

[Windwalker]

By the way, have you gotten through the eye of a needle lately?

What is this supposed to mean? What is it you are assuming about me? Why you referencing Jesus saying about how it's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God, in regards to me personally? Where are you coming from in this?

In regards to me personally, I relate more to this teaching, "take my yoke upon you.... for my yoke is easy and my burden light". This is a wonderful contrast about Grace, as opposed to the system of law that was, and is to this day, for Christians who pick it up trying to fulfill the law through strict and festiduous legalistic observances as their way into heaven. The yoke of Grace is liberty and freedom from the burden of law.

You love God by obeying his commandments.

Wrong. You love God, by finding that love that is in your own heart and living it. Then, if you do that, you will naturally follow what is God's will, as a result of being filled by God's Love. "Love works no ill".You don't need to try to do anything. You just naturally will, because you love. It's that simple.

Simply following the motions, simply "obeying the law" is not the measure of Grace in your life. That's just legalism. You can be clean and shining whitewashed tomb, all perfect on the outside, yet inside your heart is full of rot. This is what Jesus taught.

Do you understand the difference here? Simply going through the motions, is not the same thing as a heart that actually loves God. You're referring to a negotiation. "I've done everything you've told me to do, proving that I love you, so now I get my promised reward". That is not love. That is self-seeking. Genuine love does not seek for itself.

Bonus Question: If Jesus said to you, "When you die, you die. This life is all you get. There is no heavenly abode for you as the price for your obedience to God here in this life". Would you still follow him? Would you still "love God"? Would you even be a Christian anymore? Yes or no? If so, why would you?

I would love for your honest answer to this question. I would love for any Christian in this thread to answer that for themselves as well. I would love to discuss that with them.

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Yes, they are not burdensome, as the first verse I quote in this. Why are they not burdensome? Because you are not doing them out of your own effort in order to "please God" to earn his favor. The answer to unlock this puzzle is found right here in this passage:

The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
​

If you do not have love in your heart, then your actions are being forced out of a desire for selfish gain, and you will not be able to fulfil the law. So worshipping on the "right day of the week", avails you nothing.